[Beren]

Gentlemen,

I plan to purchase a Griffon 1911 along with a good book on 1911 smithing within the next few days for use as a "beater and trainer" pistol. Anyone have advice and pointers on what would be the best things I as a novice can do to tune up a low-budget 1911? What I've noticed most about the Griffon I'm about to purchase is that the trigger is very heavy and stiff. I may just go through and replace every part I can...why? Because it's fun!

If your response is "save up another $200 and buy a real 1911", please move along quietly and go play with your Kimber, Springfield, or Series 80 Colt in peace. ;)

[m1911joe]

Since the gun has such a high quality trigger pull might has well start
there. Then move on to a new hammer and sear.

As far as book(s) I would sugest The Colt .45 Automatic : A Shop Manual
by Jerry Kuhnhausen. And the companion book A Shop Manual II. Two
very good books on how to work on the 1911.

Have fun and after you have taken the thing apart and put it back together
again for the 100th time in two weeks. I will feel your pain. ;)

I have built two custom 1911's from bare frames and it was a blast.

[Kestrel]

What does a Griffon look like? Does anyone have a picture?

Steve

[Beren]

Thanks for the advice, m1911joe.

This link has some pics of the Griffon 1911:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=5173714

I may not eat all next week after picking up a few items tomorrow..

[Preacherman]

Some Griffon pics:


http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=1003637



http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=1003732



http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=1003736

[Kestrel]

The slide's ported??? (but not the barrel?) Why is the slide ported? Weight? Do they come without the ports?

What's the draw to them (quality? price? reliability?)? I don't know anything about them. Do the parts interchange with standard 1911 parts? How is the quality? Where are they made?

Preacherman, what kind of work did you have done to yours? Who did it?

Thanks for any help,
Steve

[Preacherman]

The "ports" in the slide are largely cosmetic, as I understand it. The importer claims that these were for use with a ported barrel that was being developed, but my friends in South Africa, who know the manufacturer, claim that no such porting was planned. They look a bit goofy, I admit, but they don't affect the function of the gun.

The parts do interchange with standard 1911's. I've put a Colt Commander slide and barrel onto a Griffon frame, and it functioned 100%. The main attraction of the Griffon is that it's a thoroughly reliable gun at a great price. It's got a REALLY good forged steel frame and slide, much better metal (IMHO) than many of the Phillippine imports. It makes a great "base" gun for building up into a really good weapon, if you're so inclined.

On my first Griffon, I didn't do much to it except replace the trigger with a Videcki, and tune the action a bit. It was 100% reliable with anything I fed it, including Speer's notoriously big "Flying Ashtray" 200gr. JHP. In a moment of crass stupidity, I traded it for another gun a year or so ago... :banghead:

My current one was bought by someone who then added a whole bunch of match-grade parts to it. I'm still in the process of checking it out, but it looks like he did a pretty good job. I bought it simply because I wanted another Griffon, and it was at a screaming good price considering the quality of the accessories that had been added.

Griffons are currently available for less than $350 from CDNN. They have all the usual bells and whistles, plus night sights, which makes that price a real bargain.

(Can you tell I like Griffons? :D )

[PCRCCW]

"If your response is "save up another $200 and buy a real 1911", please move along quietly and go play with your Kimber, Springfield, or Series 80 Colt in peace."

:D :D :D

Shoot well...........

[Tropical Z]

Are CDNN's Griffons using a standard 4 1/4" barrel?

[Kestrel]

Preacherman,

Thanks for the info. How are the internals? Are they decent quality? Cast?

I talked to a dealer today that has one with the night sights and said they would sell it to me for $400 (their cost - hasn't sold for them...)

How do I know if I'm getting the forged frame and slide vs. the cast ones?

I guess at $400, I'm wondering if this is a better gun than a $389 Springfield WW2 copy...

Thanks again,
Steve

[Preacherman]

Steve, I have no information about the internal parts, but they all worked fine for me... I wouldn't worry about replacing anything until you've put a couple of thousand rounds through the gun, and seen if something breaks. Mine didn't. :D

The barrel is the standard Commander length, yes.

I have never seen a Griffon with a cast frame and/or slide - they've all been forged. I don't know where the rumors are coming from about cast components. My information is that the CDNN guns are forged.

If your dealer paid $400 for that gun, it's one of the earlier ones. CDNN had listed them at about $389, and he may have one of those. CDNN has since reduced the price to just below $350. IMHO, you could buy one of the CDNN guns, have it shipped to a local FFL, and pay a $25 transfer fee, which would bring your total costs (including shipping) into the $390 bracket - or you could just buy one from your dealer. Costs will be very close.

I can't say if it's a better buy than a Springfield WW2 copy. On the Springfield, you'll certainly have to spring for the "extras" that you want - e.g. night sights, beavertail grip safety, etc. These come standard on the Griffon. I think the Springfield is an excellent gun, but to put those components on, you're looking at adding at least $100, if not $150, to the base price of the gun. Your money, your choice...

(Oh, and if you buy the Griffon and don't like it, I may be able to find a home for her! :D )

[Beren]

Wow. I took the new Griffon to the range today, and this little puppy likes to play rough with the paper plates. ;) Seemed to toss a few way to the side, but that might be me and the trigger fighting each other - it needs some work. It might smooth out after more use, but that wouldn't make it any lighter, would it? It seems to shoot better for me if I fire rapidly...

Also noticed the front sight is drifted somewhat to the right. IIRC, it was centered when I examined it in the store... I'll take a picture and see what you experts think. I've only put 50 rounds through it, and those were at 10 yards. I didn't shoot any worse than I usually do. :)

When I took it apart for cleaning, I noticed something seemed loose on the frame. I don't have any manuals yet....wait a minute, a manual should've come with this as a new firearm. There were 2 mags, cleaning brush, and rod, the factory box...but no manual? Argh, time to go call the dealer.

Anyway - if you hold the grip in your hand and look at the frame, the loose piece is just to the front and left of where the hammer falls. It's a sliver of metal which protrudes from the left rail. Is that really a separate piece pinned on, or should that be a solid piece of metal?

[Shake]

Extractor. . . . ??

Shake

[Beren]

I found a parts diagram, and that's what it is - the extractor. Is it pinned on the Griffon? Should it be slightly loose or is that a sign of impending breakage?

[m1911joe]

If you are holding the gun and pointing it away from you and it is on the
left side of the frame that is the Ejector. It is pinned to the frame. Look
at the frame from the side and you should find a small hole just behind
the mag well and in the frame rail. That is where the pin is that holds the
ejector on. It should not have any play in it. If you are looking for prints
and parts diagrams got to 1911.org (sorry don't know how to put a
link in a post yet) they have a few there.

It might not break but i would have someone look at it. It should take a
smith about 15 min to take care of.

http://www.m1911.org/

[Beren]

Thanks for the pointer, I checked out the site. It does appear to be the extractor, and there is play in it. I'd like to learn how to do repair work on this model myself and plan to buy a few good books based on recommendations here, and definitely plan to have a smith double-check, but:

What's the usual repair for a loose ejector? Remove the ejector pin and reseat the ejector first, then replace the pin and ejector if the problem remains?

[George Hill]

I like it... and from Preacherman's report, it looks like a fine handgun.

I'd even go for it.

[Beren]

Gah, what did the previous owner of this gun do, dip the extractor pin in Diet Pepsi?? There's touches of rust on the middle of it! I took the extractor and pin out, cleaned everything up, but I don't think it's going to fit tightly like it should. Will put it back on and see how it feels...

Adventures in Gunsmithing continues!

[Beren]

Okay, I finally have it back together after stripping the receiver. Cleaned up all the gunk inside, applied just a touch of gun oil to a few spots (like the bars extending back from the trigger), and did not make ANY modifications to the sear or sear spring. It does feel somewhat less "gritty" now though it's as stiff as before. Everything seems to be in proper working order. I'll take it out tomorrow morning and give it a little trial run - starting with only two rounds in the magazine, just in case I screwed up something.

I didn't touch the front sight, though I'm still confused why it's so far right of center. Then again, people wonder the same about me. :)

I now have a much better understanding of how all those little pieces interoperate, and a much better appreciation for my Glocks...

[m1911joe]

Beren

If after taking the ejector off and reinstalling it, and it is still loose you might have to replace it. To install a new ejector put it on the frame and
clamp it down on the frame. Next you will need to run a drill thru the pin
hole in the frame to cut a notch for the locking pin.

Also the extractor is in the slide not on the frame.

[Beren]

Understood. I got my "e-words" confused. I reseated the current ejector and it seems tight now, but I suspect it'll loosen up again after the next range trip. If it does I'll make a note to replace it. A few folks have mentioned the trigger would be a good place to start working as well, and that a pre-fitted trigger/sear set would be the best way to go? Where's a good place to buy such things online?

[Sven]

Sounds like an excellent value.

[BluesBear]

pre-fitted trigger/sear set

Dillon $31.20 Chip McCormick Hammer & sear

Midway $143.99 Cylinder & Slide Ultra Lite hammer, sear, disconnector
Midway $157.99 C&S Ultra Match hammer, sear, disconnector, springs 3½#
Midway $103.99 C&S Tactical Match (as above) 4½#

[Moparmike]

Preacher, that is a darned pretty gun you have there. You wouldn't want to trade that for a Witness 10mm would you?;)

[Beren]

Okay. Not only is the ejector loose as a rotten tooth despite having been reseated, the front sight came loose at the range today and fell off! I recovered it, so I at least didn't loose it.

What are my options? Would it be reasonable of me to expect the shop where I bought it to accept it as a return for refund or credit? I know the sight can be fixed, but I'm wondering what's going to come loose next. Let the buyer beware.

[Preacherman]

Beren, was this gun used when you bought it, or did you buy it NIB? If used, I'd want to know what the previous owner did to it. If new, the gunshop should either fix or replace it.

On the other hand, you wanted something to work on - now's your chance! :D

[Beren]

I was under the impression it was new, but it was my own fault for not checking the tag. The shop owner did not present it as new, and the tag was clearly marked "used." Again, my fault. And yes, my fault again for opening my big mouth. Good thing my feet are big enough to fill that gap..

Recommendations on repairing the front sight? It simply slides in and out with barely any force applied. On the plus side, I discovered I can aim accurately enough for defensive purposes without a front sight. ;)

Currently my work list for this pistol:

1. Repair front sight.
2. Replace ejector.
3. Smooth trigger or replace with drop-in kit (and thanks for the recommendations, Bluesbear!).

[Preacherman]

Beren, there are a couple of options for repairing the front sight. First, I assume that the dovetail cut is a bit wide for the front sight - that's why it's sliding around. You could peen the edges of the sight's dovetail fitting, making them marginally wider, and that should hold it. Alternatively, you could use Locktite on it. A third possibility is to pin it in place using a very short roll-pin through the dovetail into the slide. Finally, you could contact PT night sights (see here (http://www.ptnightsights.com/)) - they made the night sights on the Griffon, IIRC - and ask them if they can supply a replacement front sight with a wider dovetail base.

For the ejector, take a look at the Wilson product - it's given good results in my experience. You already have good recommendations on the trigger group.

Good luck, and have fun!

[0007]

I bought mine when they first came into the country a few years back. Ordered it from a shop in TX. Smoothest trigger on any pistol I've ever owned or handled. Took it to my shop and the guy with the Coonan built 1911 was very impressed. May have been because it was a first year build. I'm happy; Preacherman, I know what you meant about selling it in a moment of weakness... I'm keeping mine. And just for comparison I was using a Star PD for my carry piece and (usually)kept the MKIV 70 in the safe...