Coryell County Texas


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falmike
March 4, 2010, 06:00 PM
Sheriff refuses to consider anyone for Class 3. Says that if he approves for one he must approve for all. 21 years Active Army, etc. and I'm lumped together with some 21 year old gang-banger. What a coward!

Got word this evening that the local PD will at least conduct an interview before he decides....We'll see how that goes.

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Mot45acp
March 4, 2010, 10:08 PM
Hardin County here.
I hear ya. Mine only approves during election, with a campaign contribution. A trust is cheaper and morally superior. Also he, the DA and all the judges just flopped from democrat to republican right before this election, 7 in all.

TexasRifleman
March 4, 2010, 10:39 PM
Do a trust, then go pay the fine Sheriff a visit and explain what he has done; taken the opportunity to KNOW who is getting them and tossed that away by forcing a process whereby he will NOT know who is getting them.

And, explain the same thing to the police chief if you decide to interview with him.

Texas Gun Person
March 4, 2010, 10:39 PM
Honestly I have never even tried. Never really had the itch for one.


I'm in Hood county though. :D

medalguy
March 4, 2010, 10:50 PM
An NFA trust is the only way to go. That way, anyone named in the trust can take the gun out and shoot, not just the registered individual owner. So, your wife/son/brother/father-in-law or anyone else you name in the trust can take the weapon and it's totally legal. Much simpler way to go, and as stated, the LEO won't have any idea the weapon was ever transferred.

RyanM
March 4, 2010, 11:13 PM
Glad I live somewhere that has actual seasons instead of summer, more summer, and still summer. :neener:

The old county sheriff here only wanted the same paperwork as a CCW application, and 4 extra personal references (so 6 total). If you already have a CCW, he just wanted 4 more references. From what I heard from everyone he called, he mainly wanted to make sure I wasn't an alcoholic or a wifebeater, other than the usual character reference stuff.

We just got a new sheriff a couple months ago, though. One of his campaign promises was that he wasn't going to make it any harder to get an NFA signoff (both candidates promised that, actually). I've yet to hear if he's lived up to it, but a lot of people are going to be real mad if he doesn't!

Personally, I'd rather go the signoff route, because most local and county cops should recognize the sheriff's signature. Without that, the Form 4 is just this weird piece of paper they've never seen before. With the signature, it's a weird piece of paper that the county sheriff signed saying that, to the best of his knowledge, it's legal for me to have this thing.

grubbylabs
March 5, 2010, 12:09 AM
Sorry I am a little lost on what you guys are talking about. You have to have permission to transfer a gun to someone?

falmike
March 5, 2010, 05:10 AM
Did some more reading and realized that the PD Chief can't sign because I'm 1.25 miles outside the City Limits. :banghead:

Guess it will be the NFA Trust route for me.

I may send the Sheriff a Christmas Card of me and my baby when it is all done along with a P.S. that he has lost my vote :neener:

Just kidding about that, except for him losing my vote. I could do a lot of things but just don't like either grovelling or doing him any favors. I will give him exactly as much time as he gave me on this issue.....NONE! I might tell him like he told me, if I vote for you, I would have to vote for everybody :D

Besides, the Trust will leave my family with more options if something ever happens to me.

Cheers all!

TexasRifleman
March 5, 2010, 09:29 AM
Besides, the Trust will leave my family with more options if something ever happens to me.

Not really. If something happens to you and the firearm is individually owned it goes to your estate's heir with no transfer tax so the trust doesn't bring much to that.

The real benefit of the trust is while you are alive. Anyone you put on the trust can have possession of the firearm.

So, if you have friends and family that might want to shoot the thing you don't have to worry about always having to be there. And of course not having to mess with signatures.

TexasRifleman
March 5, 2010, 09:30 AM
Sorry I am a little lost on what you guys are talking about. You have to have permission to transfer a gun to someone?

Machine guns, suppressors, etc require a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your area to sign a form saying they see no reason why you should not be allowed to own such weapons.

It's defacto "permission", yes. But, Corporations and Trusts do not need to obtain this signature since they are not "people".

CoRoMo
March 5, 2010, 12:28 PM
Okay, now this is where I've got to jump in. I've been trying to get a straight answer on this for a while now, and a lot of members here have gotten PMs from me and I always get differing answers.

The lending of a trust owned title II component.

The real benefit of the trust is while you are alive. Anyone you put on the trust can have possession of the firearm.

So, if you have friends and family that might want to shoot the thing you don't have to worry about always having to be there.

I've spoken to lawyers, and to non-lawyers who I think know more than the lawyers. I've been told that I can leave my suppressor in the possession of someone in another state, if they are named in the trust. Of course, I've also been told that, that is incorrect, that I have to be there and I always have to maintain control of it. That the trust simply allows my wife to know the combination to my safe.

I've been told that others who are named in my trust can purchase title II items on the same trust. I have a hard time swallowing that one, but there it is.

Can I loan my suppressors to someone else in the trust or not? Do state lines matter? What part of 18 U.S.C. § 922 speaks to corporately/trust owned NFA products?

grubbylabs
March 5, 2010, 06:42 PM
Hay thanks for the response and being nice about it. I have seen people like me get ripped on forums before so it is nice to see some nice people once in a while.

TexasRifleman
March 5, 2010, 07:57 PM
Hay thanks for the response and being nice about it.

It's a very confusing subject for sure. NFA stuff is the voodoo of the gun world :)

CleverNickname
March 5, 2010, 08:29 PM
Can I loan my suppressors to someone else in the trust or not?

They're not your suppressors. They're the trust's suppressors.

CoRoMo
March 8, 2010, 12:05 PM
Right, sorry. But anyways, what's the answer?

nalioth
March 8, 2010, 01:04 PM
Personally, I'd rather go the signoff route, because most local and county cops should recognize the sheriff's signature. Without that, the Form 4 is just this weird piece of paper they've never seen before. With the signature, it's a weird piece of paper that the county sheriff signed saying that, to the best of his knowledge, it's legal for me to have this thing. This is an invalid reason to get a CLEO signature, imho.

If they think "weird piece of paper", what's gonna keep'em from thinking you're a signature forger, too?

RyanM
March 8, 2010, 05:24 PM
If they think "weird piece of paper", what's gonna keep'em from thinking you're a signature forger, too?

The signoff is also (presumably) on file with the sheriff's office. Maybe an invasion of privacy or whatever, but it also means that verification only takes a 5 minute radio call, which beats going to jail for several hours and then explaining the law to the DA.

Confiscation risk? Most of the cops here would turn in their badge if they got an order like that.

CleverNickname
March 9, 2010, 09:43 AM
Right, sorry. But anyways, what's the answer?


That was the answer. You don't own the suppressor, the trust does.
Assuming that you and the other person that you want to perform a physical exchange of the suppressor with are both trustees, no taxable transfer has occurred, because the trust remains in possession of the suppressor.

Ranb
March 14, 2010, 01:22 PM
The trustees are the owners of any property in the trust. If it is a shared trust, then the trust will have lists of individual property and shared property. The silencer has to be under the control of a trustee at all times with certain exceptions. It can be stored at any trustee’s residence as long as it is in a state where they are legal. They can be stored at another location outside of the trustee’s residence as long as they a secure location accessible only to a trustee, such as safe and only the trustee has a key or combo.

The silencer can also be sent to a licensed dealer or manufacturer for sale or repair. You can let another person use the silencer, but you have to be present.

Ranb

CoRoMo
March 15, 2010, 12:42 PM
Hmmmm... trust is the owner, trustees are the owners. I suppose if I were stopped for speeding, and the officer asked whose these suppressors were, I'd say, "mine", not "they are property of the blah blah blah trust".

Ranb
March 15, 2010, 01:04 PM
I suppose if I were stopped for speeding, and the officer asked whose these suppressors were, I'd say, "mine", not "they are property of the blah blah blah trust".

No explanation is required. In Colorado (as far as I know) as in most states, the highway patrol has no reason to inquire about the legal status of a silencer. Only in states like Texas do you need to be prepared to show the registration forms (and trust documents if applicable) to avoid prosecution for silencer possession.

If you are required by state law to tell the police that you are have weapons in the car when stopped for speeding, then telling the police that you have weapons should be enough. Volunteering any more information that is required by law is not a good thing to do, especially if you meet a cop who decides that they (perhaps incorrectly) will decide what is legal in their state and what is not. Of course you should deny permission to search your car or to examine anything in it.

Ranb

crushbup
March 15, 2010, 03:29 PM
21 years Active Army, etc. and I'm lumped together with some 21 year old gang-banger. What a coward!


You have an oddly inflated sense of entitlement. Your military service does not and should not elevate you above any others. Military personnel are not infallible, and to assume that they are is rather juvenile.

mrokern
March 15, 2010, 05:32 PM
You have an oddly inflated sense of entitlement. Your military service does not and should not elevate you above any others. Military personnel are not infallible, and to assume that they are is rather juvenile.
I don't read it like that at all, and I can entirely understand the OP's frustration.

Guillermo
March 15, 2010, 05:33 PM
despite the questionable-at-best tone of crushbup's reply he is correct that your military service should entitle you more than any citizen.

That said, thank you for your service.

BTW, 21 year old gang bangers do not buy legal class III weapons

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 16, 2010, 07:47 PM
the regular media likes to make people believe that.

ijosef
April 16, 2010, 01:02 PM
BTW, 21 year old gang bangers do not buy legal class III weapons
Yes, but they do represent a large buying pool for pot metal .25 automatics with the serial numbers filed off.

falmike
April 22, 2010, 07:57 AM
Wow,

I just got back to this thread.

Considering the fact the the Sheriff's signature is attesting to my trustworthiness, I think anybody with demonstrable virtues, like 21 years military service, should at least rate an interview.

Entitlement is not in play here, I have paid a price that many 21 year olds refuse to even consider. If they can in some other way demonstrate their trustworthiness, they too should rate an interview.

My point is that I just don't think it is right to be lumped together with somebody having unknown credentials in an across-the-board refusal to consider. If that is 'juvenile" of me, so be it.

Mike

clarence222
April 23, 2010, 03:38 AM
falmike, I agree with everything you said. Having read this entire thread, I didnt think you were seeking entitlement. My local sheriff didnt need anything other than a pen to sign my paperwork and thats all any of them should need

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 27, 2010, 10:27 AM
Do a trust, then go pay the fine Sheriff a visit and explain what he has done; taken the opportunity to KNOW who is getting them and tossed that away by forcing a process whereby he will NOT know who is getting them.

And, explain the same thing to the police chief if you decide to interview with him.

Very wise words. Contact David Goldman of the Apple Law Firm in Jacksonville, FL - he will do a GOOD NFA trust for you in all 50 states, along with local counsel in your area to review it for you, all for $600.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/

ForumSurfer
April 27, 2010, 10:44 AM
My point is that I just don't think it is right to be lumped together with somebody having unknown credentials in an across-the-board refusal to consider. If that is 'juvenile" of me, so be it.


I understand your frustration. I think the fact that you are frustrated by the situation causes people to misread what you said.

I can relate. I have not served and I respect you and thank you for doing so. I have, however worked with the government for many years and obtained countless clearances. I've also undergone background checks galore and my fingerprints are on file with many local, state and federal databases. My job requires me to have a clean record. I would think that I would get an interview, as well. But in my county, it is a resounding "across the board NO" just as you stated in your county. It is frustrating that I can't even get an audience and at least argue my point. My point is moot, because the sheriff doesn't care. He's stated it publicly before. I've also seen instances where he denies gun permits here. A person can meet all requirements here, but final approval is still under the sheriff's thumb. In the cases where he turns down otherwise qualified individuals, the reasons stated were almost always "questionable character." No amount of arguing, written request, verbal request or character witness testimony help. Once he shoots them down, it's almost as if their arguing about it furthers his point.

As others have said, a living trust is the answer. It's popular and most law enforcement people are familiar with it, so no need to be scared. Just keep that paperwork handy in the safe, with copies stored elsewhere. You can google around and find a gunshop/pro-gun lawyer in your area that will be happy to set this up as it is a fairly common thing to do.

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