.45 Auto Rim in .45 LC and .454 revolvers


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MagnumDweeb
March 4, 2010, 10:39 PM
At http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp, they say you can shoot .45 ACP out of your .45 LC and .454 revolvers once you've had them cut for moon clips. I was wondering if that's really a good idea. I thought in times past I had read on here that revolvers not built for .45 ACP, it was a bad idea to shoot .45 auto rim or .45 ACP(cut for moon clips) out of them.

I'm looking to get a Ruger .454 Casull Alaskan, and I'd like not to have to cut the cylinder for moon clips. I see .45 auto rim for sale by Georgia arms at the gun shows, I already reload .45 ACP(and I'd start reloading .45 LC) it's just a curiosity. Buffalo Bore makes defenese loads for both .45 auto rim and LC.

Would .45 auto rim be bad for the revolver?

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R.W.Dale
March 4, 2010, 10:46 PM
If you handoad what's the diffrence in dumping powder in and seating bullets on a acp case vs LC?

9mmepiphany
March 5, 2010, 12:15 AM
cylinders that are now cut for the moonclip loaded .45 ACP are not cut in the same way as they were when the half moon clip was more popular...hence that are not able to untilize the .45AR cartridge.

cylinders are now cut so they can still accept regular .45 Colt or .454 Mag rounds with the thinner rims...after the cut

MagnumDweeb
March 5, 2010, 09:05 AM
I find .45AR at prices cheaper than .45 LC and I can still reload them so I was wondering if it was an option to shoot it out of a Ruger Alaskan .454 without cutting the cylinder.

Chuck Perry
March 5, 2010, 10:22 AM
Cylinders cut for 45 moonclips can use 45AR brass, regardless of the era of the cut. My new production 625-8 can use AR brass just fine, same as an original model 1917.

MachIVshooter
March 5, 2010, 10:44 AM
I find .45AR at prices cheaper than .45 LC and I can still reload them

If you reload, why bother with the AR? A couple hundred .45 Colt cases should last a very long time, and you're not gonna lose them like you do with an auto.

But yes, you can shoot .45 AR in any gun that can also chamber .45 Colt. You could also use .45 Schofield.

Jim Watson
March 5, 2010, 10:56 AM
.45 Auto Rim cannot be shot in a .45 Colt or .454; the rim is about 50% thicker.

.45 Auto Rim cannot be shot in a .45 Colt or .454 converted for clipped .45 ACP. The clip cut does not go all the way around the chambers - some cylinder face is left so you can still use the original cartridge.

The correct approach is to handload .45 Colts. Buy a good stock of brass and don't crimp any harder than the load demands and you will be in good shape for a long time.

If you want such light loads as to be erratic in .45 Colt brass, as for Cowboy shooting, there are the .45 Schofield and the .45 Cowboy Special which is the length of a .45 ACP with a .45 Colt rim.

rcmodel
March 5, 2010, 12:01 PM
As usual, Jim Watson has the correct answer in this thread.

At no point does Pinnacle say you can use .45AR in .45 Colt guns converted to also use .45ACP in moon clips.

It would be impossible to headspace both .45 Colt and .45AR in the same cylinder.
They simply will not fit due to the 45AR's .089" vs the .45 Colt's .060" thick rims.

A converted cylinder could use .454 Casull, .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, .45 Cowboy Spec, or .45 ACP in clips.

But not .45AR.

Note the outer ring left on a converted cylinder to allow head-spacing on the cartride rim without clips. The clipped .45ACP fit down inside the outer ring.
A .45AR cartridge would headspace on the outer ring, and you could not close the cylinder.

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/images/moonclip.jpg

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/images/moonclip1.jpg

rc

MagnumDweeb
March 5, 2010, 04:38 PM
Thanks rcmodel, I appreciatte that explaniation greatly. I couldn't find any info that said you could. As I understood it, if you had a S&W Model 22 that shot .45 ACP, you could also shoot .45 Auto Rim out of it. So incorrectly thought, but suspected I was wrong, and was glad someone could give me a clear explanation.

When I've gone to the gunshows I found .45 LC for $24 for 50rds and .45 AR for $16-18. Guess I just add another round to the reloading line up.

Jim Watson
March 5, 2010, 04:47 PM
Thanks for the pictures, rc.

I don't understand the ready availiabily of .45 AR. Maybe the M22s are sellling well to people who don't want to monkey with clips.

rcmodel
March 7, 2010, 10:42 AM
I don't understand the ready availiabily of .45 AR.
Being able to load single rounds makes a lot of sense in the field or for hunting.

If you only fire one shot, you have to eject the whole clip with five good rounds still in it.
Then replace it with another full clip, or fiddle dink around trying to reload the single round in the clip again.

Much easier & quicker to just pluck out one fired AR case and put another one back in it's place.

rc

mesinge2
March 7, 2010, 11:02 AM
I want to thank MagnumDweeb.

I was thinking of getting the Ruger .454 Casull Alaskan and only carring it with 45 colt. I actually wanted a 45 acp revolver with a 2.5 inch barrel that is not made of scandium like the Smith, but I would settle for the Ruger and carry corbon 45 colt+Ps.

But this is a much better idea. I thought that once you cut the cylinder for moonclips you could no longer use the 45 colts or 454s anymore.

I'm glad I was wrong.

I am going to pick up the Ruger and sent it to Pinnacle and have it cut. Being able to "use .454 Casull, .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, .45 Cowboy Spec, or .45 ACP in clips" in one gun will be amazing.


Just for curiousity sake, could one cut a cylinder chambered for 460s to accept 45 ACP moonclips and still use use .460 magnum, .454 Casull, .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, .45 Cowboy Spec, and .45 ACP in clips?

rcmodel
March 7, 2010, 12:23 PM
I would certainly not recommend cutting clip grooves in the heads of .460 S&W or .454 Casull cases.
You might shoot your eye out.

The S&W 460 runs at 65,000 PSI, and won't chamber in a .454 anyway..
The .454 runs at 50,000 CUP.
The brass has it's hands full containing that kind of pressure without clip grooves weakening it further.

In comparison:
.45 Colt standard load pressure = 14,000 PSI.
.45 ACP = 21,000 PSI
.45 ACP +P = 23,000 PSI.
.45 Colt (Ruger Only loads) = 25,000 PSI.

rc

mesinge2
March 7, 2010, 12:26 PM
Sorry misunderstanding. I did not mean cutting the brass I ment cutting a 460 magnum's cylinder to accept 45 acp moon clips with 45 acps in them.

I corrected my post

rcmodel
March 7, 2010, 12:30 PM
No, I wouldn't do that either, for the same reason.

You are fooling with the very maximum Magnum rifle pressure there that brass can safely contain.

The cylinder & brass are running on the Bleeding Foreskin pressure wise already.

rc

mesinge2
March 7, 2010, 12:33 PM
rcmodel, Thanks.

That's why I asked. Would the 454 be safe if the cylinder was cut for moon clips?

Or would it also become too dangerous, bascially making the weapon safe for only 45 acp and 45 colt?

rcmodel
March 7, 2010, 12:39 PM
Pennacle says:
*The .454 conversion can allow you to shoot .45acp, .45LC and .454 Casull in a single conversion. $85.00

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

I have to guess they know whether or not it is safe.
But I see they offer the same conversion for the X-Frame 500, & 460.
So, what do I know about it?

rc

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