[Desertdog]

This should be done more by all of us.


http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35734

Claim 'disenfranchised' by unelected panel that ousted chief justice
Posted: November 20, 2003
6:35 p.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Supporters of "10 Commandments judge" Roy Moore are filing a federal lawsuit to restore him to his position as Alabama's chief justice.

Five Alabama voters allege in the suit their constitutional rights were violated when an unelected panel removed Moore, an elected state official, last week.


Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor (Photo: WSFA.com)

Alabama's nine-member Court of the Judiciary removed Moore Nov. 13 for defiance of a federal judge's order to move a 10 Commandments monument he installed in the rotunda of the state courthouse two years ago. Moore has not decided whether to appeal the decision to the state Supreme Court. If the ruling stands, Gov. Bob Riley will appoint a new chief justice.

One of the plaintiffs, Christian talk show host Kelly McGinley of Mobile, Ala., alleges Moore's removal "disenfranchised" her as a voter.

Attorney General Bill Pryor, who successfully prosecuted Moore, is named as a defendant in the suit. Also named are the state of Alabama; the Judicial Inquiry Commission, which brought the charges; the Court of Judiciary; and state Comptroller Robert Childree, whose office pays state officials.

"It is deeply troubling to have an appointed, unelected commission remove an elected official from office," said Rev. Patrick Mahoney, director of the Christian Defense Coalition, in a statement. "The Court of Judiciary has overturned an election and crushed the democratic process through their actions."

At a church meeting in suburban Kansas City yesterday, Moore once again emphasized his belief the country should acknowledge God has a place in public life.

"We need to wake up to what this country is about, and quit thinking that God dwells in temples made of hands," Moore said, according to the Associated Press. "We think we can contain him within four walls of a church. I think this is an egregious error."

Moore was asked by the pastor of the congregation, Jerry Johnston of First Family Church in Overland, Kan., if he thinks God will judge America.

"I think if God doesn't judge America, he'd have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah," Moore said, according to the AP.

But he remains optimistic.

"I know that it seems impossible, but just as it seems impossible, God starts to work," he said. "The question before America is will we acknowledge the God on which this nation was founded."

Yesterday, the state's acting Chief Justice Gorman Houston claimed Moore owes Alabama the $7,000 it cost to move his monument into a storage room.


Roy Moore (Photo: WSFA.com)

At a news conference, he claimed Moore had agreed to costs of moving the 5,300 pound granite monument in and out of the Alabama Judicial Building where Moore installed it two years ago.

Moore fired back with a statement, however, insisting it is Houston who cost Alabama an unnecessary expense by being so anxious to move it out of public view.

On Monday, Moore announced he is proposing federal legislation to reassert the power he insists Congress already has to limit the jurisdiction of federal courts.

As WorldNetDaily reported, U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson ordered removal of the washing machine-sized monument on Aug. 5, ruling it violates the Constitution's ban on government establishment of religion.

Moore refused to remove the monument, declaring, "The point is, it's not about violation of order, it's about violation of my oath of office. And my oath of office to the Constitution requires an acknowledgment of God," he said. "It's that simple."

On Aug. 28, state workers moved the monument from the rotunda of the Judicial Building to a non-public back room.

[matis]

One insoluble problem with separation of church and state is that it also separates morality and state.


Was it Jefferson who said that this constitutional republic could only be sustained by an educated and moral people?

Since we are engaged in dumbing down our population and attacking religion on all fronts, I guess we will not sustain it.


Unless more real heroes (as opposed to sports and entertainment celebrities) like Judge Moore step forward -- and the rest of us support them.


If the authorities like government and courts, the schools and the media scorn religion, then who will support it?


To see the resulting decline, just look around you.


Before those so inclined spout off about no state establishment of religion and freedom of religion, etc., I would say the following:


1) Freedom of religion is NOT freedom FROM religion.

2) The young WILL absorb a value system. If not the life-affirming values embodied in the Judeo-Christian tradition, then they will absorb the nihilism that presently characterizes our culture (watched any movies, TV, sat in any classrooms or courtrooms lately?).

3) Please tell me why ONLY the countries based upon Judeo-Christian values have the freest citizens who enjoy the highest level of and most widespread affluence with its attendant long life-spans?



More power to Judge Moore and his supporters.




matis

[azthistletoe]

1) Freedom of religion is NOT freedom FROM religion.

Now, forgive me for my ignorance, but I figure it's better to just put it out front than pretend I'm not. What do people usually mean by this? That people should not be atheists? Or... ? That's the meaning I see, but I think I am incorrect.

2) The young WILL absorb a value system. If not the life-affirming values embodied in the Judeo-Christian tradition, then they will absorb the nihilism that presently characterizes our culture (watched any movies, TV, sat in any classrooms or courtrooms lately?).

I think a lot of America's values are crappy today. However, one does not have to be Judeo-Christian to have a good, working moral system. There is, IMO, a lot of moral baggage that comes with the good from the Judeo-Christian system.

3) Please tell me why ONLY the countries based upon Judeo-Christian values have the freest citizens who enjoy the highest level of and most widespread affluence with its attendant long life-spans?

Because they are western countries. The west has historically valued freedom more than eastern countries. This was so before the west became Christianized.

I personally think that the ten commandments statue was a very minor threat to the proper seperation of church and state. Would I have personally made such a fuss about it? No, I have other priorities. However, I see nothing wrong with being vigilant in keeping a state-sponsored religion out of our government. Many here do similair things for the RKBA - the plastic gun ban, for example. Most people are opposed on principle, as no fully plastic guns exist. It's not a major thing now, but it could grow.

Of course, as always, I could be wrong.

PS: I think I'm keeping it in line with Oleg's new standards... civil liberties and all.

[clubsoda22]

This isn't about morality. Moore violated a federal court order to remove the commandments. If i violated a federal court order i'd be fined, jailed or both. The guy is lucky that he got off so easily, and besides, there's enough of the religious right in Alabama to make hikm govorner if he wanted.

[azthistletoe]

^ that, too. Hehe.

[ravinraven]

The official state-sponsored religion is blooming on, I think, every college and university campus in the country. It is called "Multiculturalism." "MCism" is a code word for Anti-Americanism. MCism has chants and rallys and trashs the symbols and holidays of Christianity. Multiculturalists are opposed to any idea or discussion that is not centered on MCism and its dogma. On a college campus you disregard their statement of what diversity is at your own peril.

The First Amendment is totally dead on college campuses in both it's parts about the establishment of a religion and the right to free speech.

rr

[Brett Bellmore]

Actually, there IS some basis for a lawsuit; Moore wasn't a federal judge, as I understand it, he was a state judge. And the state constitution lays out how state judges can be removed, and this wasn't it.

[ojibweindian]

The guy is lucky that he got off so easily, and besides, there's enough of the religious right in Alabama to make hikm govorner if he wanted.

You say that as if it were a bad thing. You're not prejudicially biased against Christians, are you? Or maybe you're for state-sponsored humanism.

As I have stated in a previous thread, Moore would be a non-issue if secular humanism wasn't being promoted at the expense of every other belief system.

[Sergeant Bob]

I don't think Desert Dog posted this to start a religious arguement.
This is the point:Five Alabama voters allege in the suit their constitutional rights were violated when an unelected panel removed Moore, an elected state official, last week.

Leave religion out of it, heck leave Judge Moore out of it.
Could a non elected panel remove an elected senator from office?

[Al Norris]

This entire episode was and is a State issue. The Feds had no authority to butt in.

Doesn't matter one whit whether I agree or disagree with what Moore did. Let the State decide. This constant intrusion into State affairs by the Feds has got to stop or we are doomed as a country and a culture.

Having said this, I'm going to work. The chances of this thread not being locked when I get back (4 hours) is nil.

[tiberius]

This entire episode was and is a State issue. The Feds had no authority to butt in.

Except that the Feds based their decision on the Constitution by claiming that Moore was violating the 1st amendment. It is indeed their job to ensure that the 1st amendment is not violated by state decisions. I am not saying that their decision was right, or wrong, just that the states do not have the right to violate our Constitutional rights……unless it involves the 2nd amendment of course. :(

[Bruce H]

Oh goody, we is well on our way to having our own Osama Ben" The Ten Commandments" Laden type right here at home.

[ojibweindian]

Oh goody, we is well on our way to having our own Osama Ben" The Ten Commandments" Laden type right here at home

Is that any worse than having tree-hugging, bunny-loving, do whatever feels good and damn the consequences secularists in power?

[Al Norris]

tiberius wrote:
Except that the Feds based their decision on the Constitution by claiming that Moore was violating the 1st amendment. It is indeed their job to ensure that the 1st amendment is not violated by state decisions. I am not saying that their decision was right, or wrong, just that the states do not have the right to violate our Constitutional rights……unless it involves the 2nd amendment of course.
Oh, I agree. the states do not have that right. But... and this is where I found it odd, the State was never given the chance to deal with the issue. Suit was filed immediately at the Federal District Court level. Are we to assume that Alabama has no Establishment Clause in it's Constitution?

Oh golly gee! Looky here:

Article I Sec. 3: That no religion shall be established by law; that no preference shall be given by law to any religious sect, society, denomination, or mode of worship; that no one shall be compelled by law to attend any place of worship; nor to pay any tithes, taxes, or other rate for building or repairing any place of worship, or for maintaining any minister or ministry; that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this state; and that the civil rights, privileges, and capacities of any citizen shall not be in any manner affected by his religious principles.
It would seem that a legal remedy was indeed available to the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Center! Who woulda thunk!!

My point being that when we allow the continual usurption of state authority by the Feds via case law, we inevitably increase federal power.

The case should have been thrown out as the plaintiffs had no standing until and unless the state court system didn't work. I should think that as often as this happens, it is testament to the slippery slope we're on.

[Daniel T]

Is that any worse than having tree-hugging, bunny-loving, do whatever feels good and damn the consequences secularists in power?

Yes.

[Brett Bellmore]

Tiberus, I must have missed it the last time a federal court, finding some state law unconstitutional, removed from office the state legislators who enacted it. :confused:

The supremacy clause gives them the authority to overturn the rulings of state courts, but I really don't think it gives the federal judiciary the authority to overturn state elections by removing from office an elected state official. On the other hand, I'll be suprised if the federal judiciary is willing to admit that they don't have that power, or any other.

[2dogs]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Funny, I still don't see the part about how a state supreme court judge is prohibited from placing a Ten Commandments statue in a state court house. Guess that's why I'll never be a law expert.

[mantispid]

Is that any worse than having tree-hugging, bunny-loving, do whatever feels good and damn the consequences secularists in power?

Actually, there shouldn't *be* any power to fight over. It shouldn't matter if a religious person or a secular person is in office, if that office has virtually no power to begin with.

[HarryRod]

Being in Alabama myself let me make it perfectly clear that the VAST majority of people in this state respect and support Judge Moore. I for one think that he did the right and moral thing even though it may have been against a court order, which he freely admits.
You know....a few hundred years ago a few guys named Jefferson, Adams and Washington did something similiar for similiar reasons and they were also looked down upon and called criminals. Now while I do not think that Moore is another Washington I do believe that he has this states best interests at heart.
He, like most of the country, believe that we are a nation founded on a belief in God and he still supports that foundation.
I for one say.....give him back his job and stop letting the liberal courts discriminate against the majority of people in this country.

[Al Norris]

As I tried to say, at this point, it matters not if Moore was right or wrong. The solution to this issue was in the wrong venue.

Alabama has it's own "Establishment Clause." That is where this issue should have been resolved. Not as some federal issue. Not at this time.

[clubsoda22]

federal courts are sre not descriminating against a majority but rather preventing a tyrany of the majority. It is not the courts business to rule how the majority of americans see fit. If it were that way, i'm sorry to say, we would not own guns.

God has no place in government. If it were, say a collage of historical law, stemming from macedonia, to the bible etc, that would be okay. In fact, there's a mural similar to that in the supreme court. Just the 10 commandments promotes a judeo-christian God, which despite being the majority of american beliefs, and probably all of alabama, is still the wrong thing to do.

[2dogs]

promotes a judeo-christian God, which despite being the majority of american beliefs, and probably all of alabama, is still the wrong thing to do.

Wrong as in "some folks don't like it" or wrong as in "unconstitutional"? If the latter, just where is that found? If the former, tough noogies. :)