[exbiologist]

I've been kicking around the idea of reduced loads for my .264 for grouse. I don't carry a handgun, pellet gun or slingshot with me when I'm deer or elk hunting and don't like exploding grouse with full power loads. So I was wondering if you guys have any ideas for reduced loads that might not sent parts flying too badly. I shot one with a 120 TTSX at 3500 fps last year and it rained feathers for about 10 minutes. Couldn't even find the breast meat. just the wings and head.
I've shot several with .22s and .38s, so I know the 1000 or so fps type velocities wont destroy them with a body shot. But how low would I need to load a centerfire rifle? And what bullet would you suggest? Sierra MatchKings? Barnes Solids? Lapua or Norma target bullets? Not much in the way of FMJs available in .264.

[rcmodel]

In order to do what you want to do safely you would have to use cast lead bullets.

Downloading an over-bore Magnum caliber like the .264 is risky at best due to Secondary Explosion Effect.
Doing it with jacketed bullets at 1,000 FPS is fool-hardy.

On top of that, reduced loads like you suggest will not shoot to the same POA as full power loads you are sighted in with.
So some creative Kentucky Windage & Elevation would be necessary to hit a grouse.

I think in your case, a .22 pistol might be the best solution to the problem.

If you simply must try it, see this about Ed Harriss "The Load" using a cast bullet and 13.0 grains Red Dot in any large rifle caliber.
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=1387&forum_id=22

Don't try it with a jacketed bullet!

rc

[exbiologist]

Is it possible to create shotgun type loads? Say by using a fast powder beneath a ton cotton or something similar for wadding, then sealing the shot in the case mouth with wax?

[ArmedBear]

I shot one with a 120 TTSX at 3500 fps last year and it rained feathers for about 10 minutes.

No ****, really?:D

I've been looking for an excuse to get one of these for a very long time. Can't ever find that excuse for me, but it sounds like you have one.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14742&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

12 oz., easy to shoot accurately even in low light, holds 8 rounds so you don't really have to carry any extra.

Might not weigh any more than the extra .264 ammo and a cartridge wallet to carry it.

[exbiologist]

Good article. He only recommend using that load with .30 cals and up. Why would that be?

[rcmodel]

Is it possible to create shotgun type loads?
Not in a .264 Magnum!
You will shoot your eye out.

You couldn't get enough shot in the neck of the .264 case to kill a grouse.
Plus, the rifling spin would throw the shot out sideways as soon as it came out of the muzzle so you would have no killing pattern if you did have enough shot..

See my other post.
That is the only safe way to do what you are asking about.

rc

[rcmodel]

See post #2 where I said:
risky at best due to Secondary Explosion Effect.

SEE: Abbreviation for Secondary Explosive Effect. SEE is a condition which can occur when slow-burning powders are used at greatly reduced charge weights (poor loading density). Rather than burning in a normal fashion, the powder detonates, as though it were a severe overload. Also known as a “pressure excursion.”

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

I have used .22 cal air rifle pellets in 22-250 & .223 propelled only with a primer & no powder for pest control. It works great!

It would also work with the .264 Mag, except I don't know where you would find any 6.5mm air rifle pellets.

rc

[ArmedBear]

BTW this is the perennial choice of those who are serious about grouse/elk hunts, which are common in Europe, thought they call their elk deer:

http://www.centerlinefirearms.com/partners/krieghoff_drillings.php

I agree with rc: the POI of the grouse centerfire load vs. the zero of the deer/elk rifle would be a real problem. Once upon a time, flip-over scope mounts were fairly common. That's the best thing I could think of: a scope for the .264 that flips aside for express-style irons, maybe fiber in front, zeroed for the cast-bullet grouse load.

That's an alternative to the drillings, which have a rib for shotgun shooting, and sights that emerge from the rib when the rifle selector is engaged. It's not hard to understand why these things are crazy expensive.:)

[WTBguns10kOK]

I used big ol 220 grains out of a 30 06 when I didn't see the big game I was lookin for. I think it sort of minimized extra damage when I hit low, but OTOH when you sever a neck, it sure is nice to have a perfect piece of meat.

[Art Eatman]

Leaving out the issue of sight-in, I used a 00 Buck and five grains of pistol powder in a .30-06 for a squirrel load. Surprisingly accurate. No wadding.

[exbiologist]

Ooohhhh there's an idea. But isn't 00 buck .33 caliber? Is it best to be undersized or oversized for this? With a .264, I could go either #3(.25 cal) or #2 (.27 cal).

[rcmodel]

Go with the .27 if they will fit in the case & still chamber.
A .25 would just rattle down the .264" bore.

rc

[dmazur]

I just got two Hammond Game Getters (in .243 and .30-06) and I'm going to try them out. They're supposed to be quite accurate at close range, and with the lower powered blank charges don't cause leading. According to the manufacturer, velocities are 800-1000fps.

http://www3.telus.net/gamegetter/operate1.html

For the .243, #3 buckshot is indicated and for the .30-06, #0.

I see from the chart that these are made in .264, so it could be an option to reduced loads.

[Art Eatman]

My 00 load was my uncle's idea, 60 years back. Five grains of some kind of shotgun powder. Quite accurate, really; I could regularly hit an 18" steel plate at 100 yards, guesstimating the holdover. Sort of a boring wait for the bullet to get there, however. :)

[oneounceload]

Is it legal to use a centerfire metallic round on grouse where you live?

[exbiologist]

It is for me during the big game seasons.

[JustsayMo]

I've used an 0' buck (~.314") in 30-30 and 30-06 over a few grains of Bullseye powder. With iron sights it shoots very close to point of aim for some of my hunting loads. In the 30-30 5 grains of Red Dot powder under a 170gr cast bullet prints very close to my 150 grain JSP hunting load out to 50 yards and will print under 3" out to 100 yards.