Suggestions? On loading 230 Grain FMJ-RN .451 in 45 Colt Cases....


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Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 01:30 PM
I have these but do not load for 45ACP. Does anyone have any load suggestions for loading in 45 Colt so that I may shoot them out of my 460XVR? I'm not looking for any high pressure loads here, just for plinking.

I hope someone can chime in so I can make use of these.

I have posted here also if you would like to read what others said.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401154
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/127015-suggestions-loading-230-grain-fmj-rn-451-45-colt-cases.html

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=68&pictureid=332

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=68&pictureid=331

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R.W.Dale
March 5, 2010, 01:38 PM
I'm unclear on that particular bullet. Is it JACKETED or PLATED? I've not been able to find out

IF jacketed provided you crimp the pee out of em they should serve as a good plinking bullet.

as they will if plated but you'll want to limit your velocities and pressures somewhat. As you mention

Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 01:57 PM
They look like they're jacketed completely (encapsulated). They do not look plated to me. They seem to have a hard copper jacket to me. The box says Full Metal Jacket-Round Nose. I would be using Winchester Large Pistol primers and Unique, but what load of powder should I try? This is what I'm trying to figure out.

Thanks for your comment krochus.

Walkalong
March 5, 2010, 02:00 PM
They are jacketed, with an extra piece on the bottom so they are "encapsulated". I have some of them in 200 Gr SWC for .45.

rcmodel
March 5, 2010, 02:11 PM
You can load them & shoot them in a .460 S&W.

But they are under-size and you may not have much case neck tension using the standard expander button for .452" bullets.
And no place to crimp them for a revolver, as they have no crimp cannelure on the bullet.

As they are FMJ-E and not plated, you could get away with a light crimp into the jacket.

No idea where you would get Unique load data for such a combination.

Looking at 454 Casull data, Lyman shows a 14.5 grain starting load, 16.2 MAX with a 225 JHP & Unique.

That should get you in the ball park with your larger .460 S&W case capacity without shooting your eye out.

rc

Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 02:24 PM
rcmodel, Thanks

I really do appreciate the comment you made there, I'm gonna look at the books soon. I was hoping maybe I could just size the cases down, press the bullet in and crimp heavy with the Lee Factory Crimp Die (as I noticed heavy crimps with tool will actually indent the bullet). I would of course check to see how well this holds the bullet in place by trying to remove the bullet using an inertia puller. Also I would try to see if I could just press the bullet in by hand.

rcmodel
March 5, 2010, 02:32 PM
Be aware that load data I posted was all conjecture & a WAG on my part.

I can, in no way, assure you those loads are safe in your gun.

Use at your own risk.

rc

Walkalong
March 5, 2010, 02:35 PM
You could always size the first part of the case with a .45 ACP sizer to get more neck tension, if sizing with the .45 Colt with no expanding isn't enough. I see you don't load .45 ACP, so that may not be an option though.

I would start with no expanding after sizing first, with a light roll crimp if needed. If you have .45 dies, you could use the seater to taper crimp these bullets as well.

Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 02:37 PM
rcmodel,

DO not worry please I wouldn't just go and do this without alot more info and time, and besides I'm not just itch'in to do that, although your info sounds logical.

This is a forum and no one should blame anyone here as it's all conjecture. I will say I have seen a wealth of information on here though and many of your posts seem very helpful.

Thanks again :)

Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 02:47 PM
I got this on the S&W Forum I put it here for reference purposes.

S&W Forum Link to comment (http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/127015-suggestions-loading-230-grain-fmj-rn-451-45-colt-cases.html#post135382064)


If you are going to load those for .45LC, you may want to invest in a cannelure tool so that you have something to crimp the case into. I have to do the same thing for .401 FMJ bullets when I am reloading for .38 WCF (aka .38-40). The Corbin HCT-1 runs $139 according to their website. Costly, but worth it (at least to me.) I inherited mine...

Some may not agree with my suggestion, and that's okay. I've just found that the cannelure rolled into these bullets meant for semi-auto rounds helps keep the bullet at proper depth in the case - no slipping out the front of the case under recoil and binding up the revolver, and no slipping back into the case if you accidentally drop a round from your hand.

JMO...

My .45LC load:
230gr FMJ
11.0 gr. of Accurate No. 5
CCI 300 primer
COL is 1.595"
970fps
your mileage my vary (and you may want to back off of that load by 10% or so and work your way up!)

Regards,
Mike

Walkalong
March 5, 2010, 02:49 PM
A taper crimp die would be much cheaper and much faster than buying and using a cannelure tool. Just a thought.

rcmodel
March 5, 2010, 02:52 PM
I had thought about suggesting that earlier.
But buying a cannulure tool to use up one box of bullets is not a cost effective option.

rc

R.W.Dale
March 5, 2010, 02:53 PM
as would some money sent to Missouri bullet Co



just a suggestion

Astute
March 5, 2010, 04:59 PM
I loaded some 230 RN in my 45 Colt and had to pull the bullets as they won't work. 45 Colt uses a flat point. The 230 RN point was too long, even when seated clear to the start of the nose curve and stuck out the end of the cylinder. Also in lieu of a channellure you can use a Lee factory crimp die. A different brand of bullets or a gun with a longer cylinder would be just fine. My loading info shows loads for 200 to 300 gr bullets.

FROGO207
March 5, 2010, 05:14 PM
Lots of 45 autos out there. I would swap them for something that I could use. Most likely someone reading this thread would swap you for the cost of shipping and/or a reasonable qty differential. FWIW I used 230 HP in my Colt repro with trail boss and 45 auto dies, they would chamber and fire OK but the accuracy was not great.

Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 05:19 PM
Astute, You just taught me something. I didn't know why the bullets on the colt were flat as I have never owned a real 45 Colt revolver. This 460XVR has no problem with long cartridges. Thanks for the info.

I'm still curious what was the load data you used for that 230 RN and was it This bullet? Please fill me in if you might.

Astute
March 5, 2010, 05:35 PM
Can't rmember and I'm at work, but I think it was Accurate Arms/Scot or Hodgdon

Scrapperz
March 5, 2010, 11:53 PM
I was looking in the Lyman 49th and see loads on pg. 390 for 240gr Jacketed HC and the loads starting range is Unique@8gr, HS6@10.

My only other question is what would be my OAL? Since these loads are for 240gr Jacketed HC, which is a flat nose bullet. Or should I insert the bullet right before where the ogive starts?

Scrapperz
March 6, 2010, 12:49 AM
I've checked the bullet fit in a new sized case, without the expander, and it's a slip fit (no good). If I want to do this I'm gonna have to size this case down more using an 45 ACP die. So maybe I should look to trade these for something I can actually use after-all. I won't give up though it'll just be on the back burner is all. :)

ArchAngelCD
March 6, 2010, 04:02 AM
My only other question is what would be my OAL? Since these loads are for 240gr Jacketed HC, which is a flat nose bullet. Or should I insert the bullet right before where the ogive starts?
Normally I would warn you about excessive pressures if you seat the bullet too deep especially if you're using a fast powder that could spike pressures BUT, since you are shooting this ammo in a .460 Magnum there's probably no worries about doing damage to anything if the pressures are a little higher than a normal .45 Colt round. (or even the Ruger loads) In this case (and this case only) I would seat the bullet to where it looks correct as in not too far up as to chance bullet setback.

BTW, why not just trade this one box of bullets off instead of going through all the trouble of trying to load them in .45 Colt brass? (like suggested above) Those are really nice bullets and will probably be appreciated by someone who loads for the .45 Auto...

Scrapperz
March 6, 2010, 08:52 AM
ArchAngelCD,

Thanks for reading this post. I do think I'm going to look for trade as I'm starting to feel it's just not worth it, mainly cause I do not have a way to size the neck down to get adequate tension. Although I have a Bond Arms Derringer that I could get a 45 ACP or GAP barrel for. Then I could get some cases and dies for them and put together another cartridge type. I'm not in any rush here.

Scrapperz
March 6, 2010, 01:50 PM
You should'nt have a slip fit period. If they truely are .451, that is the correct diameter for .45 Colt. It sounds like your sizing die is'nt doing its job.

As for setback, it won't happen in a revolver. They start to pull out, not setback, and is ussually reserved for heavy bullets with very stout loads. I doubt it will be much of a problem with a good roll crimp and a 230gr even without a crimp groove.

For a load, I would probably just drop them right on top of 9gr of Unique. And the OAL of this recipe should get you real close to correct, if not a little long, which is to err on the side of safer yet.

First thanks for your posting. Second, I have to say last night I used the wrong sizing die, but on purpose, I should have specified this in the that post. Please remember everyone I'm patient and in no hurry, This is how I have been able to do unusual things, in my career as a proto-type machinist, successfully without hurting myself. Patience is a Virtue

Ok, last night I had the 460 die in the press and ran it in there. realizing it's not good enough, the 460 case wall must be thicker. This afternoon I took out my RCBS sizing die in 45 Colt and now I'm good to go. I now have good case neck tension and with a Lee factory crimp it should be good. Also I tried to push the bullet in this sized case and with alot of force it was hard to push in past the nose. My hands are really strong, after so much wrenching in my careers, and I know I can press a bullet in a good case bullet fit if I try hard enough.

Although I will say an 45 ACP sizing die would be even better. I will still take my time with this and make sure I'm safe....I will keep ya'll posted.

Please, if anyone has any more ideas or suggestions keep them coming.

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