COMBAT trigger pull weight...


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briang2ad
March 6, 2010, 01:24 PM
I read plenty of threads where people get trigger jobs to get maximum accuracy in shooting at the range, etc. I hear all about 3 and 3.5 LB pulls, etc. EVEN in guns like the Glock and XD.

I just got a LNIB HP, and it has a VERY crisp pull, but its likely in the 5 LB range. I can shoot it well, but I'm certain that a lighter pull would reduce my group size.

However, being a 'gunfight novice', I doubt that a 3.5LB pull would be a help to me in a real gunfight - in fact, it might me a hindrance to the novice with the adrenaline up and running. What do you think?

(IMHO), I believe that unless you are a real pistolero (1000 rounds per week) and have experienced a few real gunfights, you are fooling yourself with a 3.5LB pull. You'd be better off at a crisp 5LB pull. All this is a bit relative, but I think folks place too much confidence in range sessions.

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LibertySympathizer
March 6, 2010, 01:40 PM
Here's what Larry Vickers has to say on the subject:

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/trigger-pull-weight/

briang2ad
March 6, 2010, 02:28 PM
Thanks - this makes sense. I've just read WAY TOO many threads on XD Talk with people tricking out carry guns with 3 LB trigger pulls. I think it is a BIG mistake. Especially for novices (which 99.9% are) in a world of litigation.

And... litigation aside, it is still stupid.

bds
March 6, 2010, 02:34 PM
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/trigger-pull-weight/

A perfect example would be a Glock 17 with a factory stock trigger that weighs approx 5 pounds and is the same for each shot vs a Beretta M9 with a double action first trigger pull of approx 13 lbs and a 5 lb single action trigger for each shot after. Although DA/SA guns can be mastered the average shooter will definately shoot a pistol like a Glock better than a Beretta.

In addition a trigger below 4 lbs can easily lead to accidental discharges under conditions of stress. Remember fine motor skills degrade rapidly and not only does the shooters ability to shoot accurately suffer but because of this a 4 lb trigger will feel like a 2 lb trigger when you are truly in fear for your life. Add into this sweaty hands, rain and/or cold, and possibly gloves and you begin to see why finely tuned match triggers of 3 lbs or less have no place on a serious fighting tool.

I had 2.5 lb trigger on my match 1911 and it was too light. You barely touch the trigger and it went Bang. It gave great shot groups, but very impractical for any SD/HD use.

I switched to stock Glock 22 with factory 5 lb trigger and it allows me to shoot very fast double taps often with 1-2 inches in size.

possum
March 6, 2010, 03:16 PM
I just got a LNIB HP, and it has a VERY crisp pull, but its likely in the 5 LB range. I can shoot it well, but I'm certain that a lighter pull would reduce my group size.
a proper trigger squezze and sight alignment will reduce your group size to.

my handguns are all for defensive purposes, therefore they all have the stock trigger in them, and that is something that i will not change.

The Lone Haranguer
March 6, 2010, 07:33 PM
I had 2.5 lb trigger on my match 1911 and it was too light. You barely touch the trigger and it went Bang.
For self defense use, I don't believe in the so-called "surprise trigger break."

conw
March 6, 2010, 07:44 PM
I agree with you, and I also think that for various reasons reducing your group size mechanically in this fashion does not translate to the same reduction in a real life combat situation. Reducing your group size by improving technique would probably result in a better outcome in a fight, but tuning your gun to make it easier to shoot (and even potentially compensating, thereby, for bad technique) and having slightly smaller groups probably doesn't improve your outcome in combat proportionately.

The thinking goes if a guy misses by 3" in practice, he will miss by exponentially more in a gunfight. This is probably true IF it is a technique issue, but if you adjust for technique and improve the mechanics of the gun, you are not dealing with the same variable, and combat would not have exacerbated the margin of error if it was due to mechanics, rather than technique.

Drail
March 6, 2010, 08:28 PM
4 or 5 lbs. crisp on a carry gun. On a range gun, whatever you can control perfectly. Crisp is much more important than weight. I have had my 1911 competition guns down to 1.5 lbs for a very short period and I could control it safely (never had an OOPS) but it was too much work and mental stress to enjoy in a match environment. It NEVER NEEDS to be that light. I am now running 2.5 lbs on the range toys and 4 - 4.5 lbs. on the business guns. The finger is more important than the trigger specs.

Eightball
March 6, 2010, 09:18 PM
I purposely got my trigger on my 1911 adjusted to be 4 lbs (maybe 4.12 or something, I'm not using a scale). Plenty light for target work, and heavy enough for CCW purposes, IMO.

A nice single action revolver? I'm sure I'd go for 2.5 pounds or so. Semi-Auto? 4 lbs, minimum, IMO. To each their own.

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