[Matt1911]

This may belong in reloading,but...

The indoor range i frequent USED to allow me to shoot my own reloads,or store bought ,or....
Now you have to use "total copper bullets".The reason i was told is EPA hassles and expences.Even the owner of the range is having a hard time getting enough of these.(he had none in 44 mag).
Three questions...
Anyone else run into this?

Is this a "real" reason,or just a profit making rule?

Where does one get these bullets,and reloading data?

[DadOfThree]

Sounds to me like that is a range that won't stay in business very long.

[Kamicosmos]

yeah...can't be much of a money making scheme if they can't stock the all copper bullets in every caliber that may come in the door...

[Sunray]

Sounds like BS to me. The only totally copper bullets I've ever heard of were hand made on a lathe. If he's having EPA troubles it's not due to your bullets. He just hasn't bothered to have the exhaust scrubbers serviced.

[Mike Irwin]

He's likely talking about the bullets that have a lead core but a guilding metal (not pure copper) jacket electroplated on them. Winchester and Remington (I think) both manufacture rounds like these, complete with lead-free primers, because of the lead contamination issues.

This is how the Speer Gold Dot is made -- the jacket is electroplated over the lead core, then the hollowpoint is formed in a ram press.

Barnes, and I believe Hornady, also make all "copper" bullets for hunting. I believe that Barnes calls theirs the X bullet.


Unfortunately, I wish it were simply a case of having the exhaust scrubbers serviced. EPA is getting a LOT more interested in lead pollution at shooting ranges.

[SJG26]

By special order only- I suppose all the big manufacturers do.

Ammoman.com had a run of leftover Federal "total copper" non-toxic training 115gr 9mm rounds......apparently an overrun from some gov't contract.

They appeared as truncated cone rounds ( wadcutters??) - boxes were marked "For training only".
I still have a few hundred rounds that I use to test fire my pistols after full field-strip cleaning for functionality (burn very clean).

I examined several after test shots - yep- nothing but copper!! Penetration was unreal - gotta figue the solid coppers are harder than lead FMJ's........

[Brad Johnson]

There are all copper and sintered (frangible) bullets available by several mfg.

The EPA mandates that you can have only so much lead on hand without your "stash" being classified as hazardous. I can't remember the exact amount, but I think it's around 10,000 lbs. If the range doesn't want to pay to have someone come in and clean the traps to keep the lead to allowable levels, then the only other option is to require the use of lead-free projectiles.

10,000 lbs sounds like a lot, but it's not. A 50 gallon drum full of trap debris weighs in at around 1000 lbs, and a moderately busy range can fill a drum in less than a month.

The local indoor range has a guy that comes around every so often and picks up the bullet trap material. He smelts out the lead for resale to reloaders who "roll their own" bullets, then sells off the other metals to refiners.

Brad

[Standing Wolf]

Does anyone have a source for pure (or alloyed) copper bullets?

[Hypnogator]

Taurus has come out with a line of total copper bullets. I've never seen any in stores, but you can order them from their web site.

Along the same lines, I just bought a box of Winchester "WinClean" .45 ACPs that have small pistol primers for "improved primer sensitivity" and truncated cone 230-gr bullets with exposed lead at the tips -- the base, sides, and nose are completely jacketed except for the very tip. Wally World has them for $13.95 per box -- thought I'd give them a try. I've always been a fan of the truncated cone FMJ.

[FireInTheHole]

Um woundnt 100% copper bullets be considered AP? I thought the BATF classified all pistol rds with more than 25% of the "jackets" mass making up the bullet as armor piercing.

[rayra]

"I thought the BATF classified all pistol rds with more than 25% of the bullets mass making up the bullet " - can you clarify that, because to me that reads in such a way that EVERY round exceeds.

TMC (Total Metal Cover) bullets are available from several bullet manfs, and as stated earlier, it's usually a copper wash / electroplate of a lead round.

Ranges in CA have been full of Lead warnings for a long time. Don't know what the current issues are about 'no lead', as I haven't been to an indoor range in CA for over 10yrs.

[FireInTheHole]

OIC, I was assuming total copper bullet ment Total Copper Bullet, IE the entire bullet is made of copper.:o

[KP95DAO]

FITH,

The BATF left an out in that, if the bullet is "made" for an allowed purpose, "hunting, target shooting,etc.", they can be made and used by the general public.

This is how Barnes gets away with making solid copper alloy bullets for handguns; they are for hunting big game.

I picked up a number of those Federal total copper 9mm bullets off our range (Fed Agency) and pointed them up using a drill and a file. Very good penetrators at 1800 fps out of my 357 Ruger.

[Double Naught Spy]

In regard to the legal definition of AP ammo and copper, the law classifies copper ammo as AP if it is Beryllium copper. So apparently copper with other alloys isn't classified as AP.

[Kruzr]

At our range, we are only allowed to ship 8000 lbs of lead per load when we clean the range so that is the limit we use. The EPA cracked down on lead at ranges last year and inspected all 3 of our facilities. We went to the Caswell rubber traps that capture the bullets whole to cut the lead emissions. We used to have steel plates with a swirl chamber on top and a trap on the bottom. The bullets would smash and lead dust would result. The dust got sucked out the exhaust vents but also collected there. We took over 800 lbs out of the exhaust vents when we cleaned them last year. We still allow lead and FMJ ammo but all our own ammo is TCJ and it is the "recommended" ammo for the indoor range. I would guess that the range that now requires TCJ is trying to comply with the results of their EPA inspection. Rainier and West Coast Bullets make total copper plated. They should allow you to shoot reloads with those.

[gigmike]

Rainier Ballistics makes copper plated bullets. They still have the lead core, but it is totally encapsulated, at least until it hits a steel backstop.

www.rainierballistics.com

[Guy B. Meredith]

I use nothing but TC bullets--lead fully encased in copper plating. These are readily available from West Coast Bullets, Rainier and one other whose name escapes me at the moment.

[BluesBear]

Another thread brought back from the dead after only 14 months.

I refuse to shoot at any range that only allows a certain type of ammo. Especially is that certain type of ammo is not what you shoot normally.

If a range has an obsolete ventilation system that can't handle the shooting of normal firearms and they decide not to join the industrial age and upgrade, they should just close up shop, rip out the lanes and turn it into a Starbucks or a Barnes & Noble.

[Standing Wolf]

If a range has an obsolete ventilation system that can't handle the shooting of normal firearms and they decide not to join the industrial age and upgrade, they should just close up shop, rip out the lanes and turn it into a Starbucks or a Barnes & Noble.

Amen! An awful lot of ranges seem to be owned by cheapskates.

[Deavis]

If a range has an obsolete ventilation system that can't handle the shooting of normal firearms and they decide not to join the industrial age and upgrade, they should just close up shop, rip out the lanes and turn it into a Starbucks or a Barnes & Noble.

Testify borther, TESTIFY!

[Smythe77]

Good tip Hypnogator for I remember reading about the Taurus ammo in American Handgunner some months ago & as trying to remember who it was & had in mind Brazil when you came up with your Post.

[Ross]

I doubt that I would opt to shut down a range that was restrictive of the ammo I load.
There are only two ranges that I know of within about a hundred miles here. One was hassled out of business by the Kalifornia DOJ. The one remaining (about 25 miles) is not expected to fold as it is run by a bunch of cops, but it is now the only commercial place for CCW qualifications.
Something is better than nothing, isn't it?

Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[Guy B. Meredith]

Ross,

You must live in Orange or LA county. Even the SF Bay area has a better selection of ranges. I can find about six within 30 miles of my house. We had a couple of favorites when I lived in OC, but last time I bothered to visit the Sherrif's range seemed to be the only outdoor range and maybe one indoor range lurked in the area.

[Grayrock]

Old thread, I know- but isn't that what the SEARCH feature is for?

Any hoo- I have bought a couple of boxes of the .45ACP Taurus Total Copper cartridges. I like them and want more. I can not find them anywhere. They are still on Taurus' web site. Does anyone know where I can get these ?

[FLORIDA KEVIN]

I have seen a couple of companies making polymer coated bullets ! i wonder if these would qulify for use ! Precision bullets , and another that the name escapes me !!

[strat81]

Any hoo- I have bought a couple of boxes of the .45ACP Taurus Total Copper cartridges. I like them and want more. I can not find them anywhere. They are still on Taurus' web site. Does anyone know where I can get these ?

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/dpx_022305/
The Corbon DPX is a commercial load using the all-copper Barnes X-Bullet. Magtech also makes and all-copper round too (Guardian Gold, I think?).