[phantomak47]

I was wondering if its ok to leave my 870 police loaded all the time as its my duty weapon and goes with me to work every night, so I do not unload the tube.


Thoughts? Suggestions?

[dak0ta]

Yes, but just swap the shells out once in a while so the spring doesn't warp the plastic hulls.

[Fred Fuller]

Do you ride it around muzzle up in a rack in the car? If so, I'd make it a point to replace the ammo every couple of months, especially in the summertime. Plastic shotgun shells have been known to bulge a bit in the magazine under pressure from the mag spring, especially if bounced around in a gun racked muzzle up in a hot patrol car. Bulged shells might be difficult to chamber- don't want to find those the hard way. Granted it doesn't happen a lot, but it is worth knowing about.

As far as it hurting the gun/magazine spring, it shouldn't matter in that regard, especially with an 870P. I hope you're practicing with the gun pretty often and shooting up the ammo you've been carrying around before it gets too many miles on it :D.

lpl

[Murphys Law]

I would unload it every night or day at end of tour immediately after taking it out of the rack and reload it at the start of your tour just before you remount it back in the car. My reasons are three fold. Accountability for the conditions of the rounds and loaded condition and second the tremendous amount of practice and familiararity you wil get in using all of the guns controls. such as the safety, slide release lever, etc. Third, your dexterity to handle the clumsy shotgun shells will also greatly improve. If you go in this direction, While standing outside the car you can point the muzzle down into the drivers seat as you load and unload, It's safer than sweeping the parking lot or garage with a loaded shotgun. I did see one officer have an AD in this manner, (finger on the trigger)and although he was teased for years afterwards, no one was hurt as the blast and pellets were all contained inside the car.

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // Great to know about the bulge problem, Lee

I have some boxes of reduced recoil 00 recycled police rounds and I had better check them. That little tidbit might just be a life saver. TY

[dak0ta]

Just have a box of shells, and every couple of months or so, shoot the ones that were in the mag tube and reload the tube with new shells.

[BushyGuy]

it wouldnt hurt to keep them loaded for a couple of weeks then change the shells now and then , if you use high brass shells they wont bulge as much as the low brass ones. I kept my Mossberg Maverick loaded for months with 00 buck and used up the 4 rounds in the tube every couple months then replaced it with fresh ones. I now have my 870 Express 12 gauge about 5 months now, i havent kept it loaded more then 1 week cuz its my baby!

[conhntr]

practice and familiararity you wil get in using all of the guns controls. such as the safety, slide release lever, etc.

why would you be using the safety in this situation? it should be on the entire time you are loading/unloading

[mljdeckard]

Murphy's law-

Repeated loading and unloading:

Wears out the springs earlier than sustained pressure,
Wears out the ammo faster than sustained pressure,
Creates more risk of an accidental discharge than just leaving the gun alone.

[owen]

hmm, thanks for the tidbit. I wouldn't have thought of the shells bulging.

I'm not a cop or anything, but I think it would be a good policy to check the status of the gun at the beginning of your shift. When I put my pistol on, I make sure its loaded. Why would that be a bad idea for the shotgun?

I've also heard horror stories of shotguns in cruisers with barrels full of candy wrappers and cigarette ashes...

[LouisCipher777]

I would unload it every night or day at end of tour immediately after taking it out of the rack and reload it at the start of your tour just before you remount it back in the car.

magazine springs, including tube mags, do not wear out from the pressure of being loaded, the wear out from being used, so the more you load and unload them, the faster they wear out.

I keep my shotguns loaded, but every couple months I make sure I take them out and shoot off the old rounds and load new ones.

I've also heard horror stories of shotguns in cruisers with barrels full of candy wrappers and cigarette ashes...

Nothing our "only ones" do would surprise me anymore.

[Fred Fuller]

With an empty chamber and proper control of the weapon to prevent access from others while in transit from home to work, there shouldn't be any real safety issues with leaving the magazine tube loaded. The agency FTO (firearms training officer) or agency policies may dictate the status of weapons in transit from off duty to on duty, that might be something to check on too. Most FTOs or agency policies will cover the status of a duty shotgun and most specify some version of 'cruiser ready' that includes a loaded magazine and an empty chamber.

And it isn't necessary to cycle rounds through the action to unload the magazine- with an 870P or any 870 with a short LE style forearm, the action can be 'cracked' part way open, and with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction the shooting hand thumb can press the rearmost shell in the magazine forward off the shell latches as the forearm is moved the rest of the way back.

That will act as an impromptu magazine cutoff, and keep the shell from popping out into the action as the bolt is fully opened.

With the action all the way open and the lifter in the up position, the loading port is unobscured by the forearm. The gun can be administratively unloaded by tripping the right hand shell latch (looking from the butt with the gun right side up) and letting each shell slide out of the magazine via the loading port.

This takes less time to do than it does to tell, and anyone who uses an 870 as a serious shotgun needs to know this method of unloading. It can be done with a longer 'field length' forearm too (DON'T use your thumb as a magazine cutoff though!), but it's trickier and usually means having to trip both shell latches in proper sequence, left then right.

fwiw,

lpl

[Old Shooter]

First I've heard of this potential problem, glad it was brought up. I keep my 870 loaded in the closet and now I've got another good reason to take it out in the off-season and let a few rounds go.

This has been a good day.

[Al LaVodka]

Just have a box of shells, and every couple of months or so, shoot the ones that were in the mag tube and reload the tube with new shells.
+1

I would, however, unload the gun over "weekends" and change the spring every coupla years.

Al

[Murphys Law]

Excellent post Lee, I can see why you are so well respected. My officers were instructed to remove the shells exactly as Lee described. This was part of their qualification and they had to demonstate a proficiency in unloading and loading as part of their passing score.

Conhntr, "why would you be using the safety in this situation? it should be on the entire time you are loading/unloading " Yes, True, but you should actually check it by feel. Many times at the start of a tour I would be loading in the near dark. With the action open, its very easy to check the condition of the safety with your fingertip. An easy way to remember is "Flat for Fire" if your a righthander using your right finger tip. A leftie feeling the safety on the side of the trigger guard with his left fingertip would feel "Bump for Bang". You can make up your own little mantra but its one i used for years and after everyone stopped chuckling, they remembered it. We often shared our range with other agencies and when running inter-county qualifications it was easy to see the smoothness and confidence that my own agencies people had while working the drills, as opposed to the ones that would take the gun out of the rack once or twice a year for qualifications.

mljdeckard, "Repeated loading and unloading:

Wears out the springs earlier than sustained pressure,
Wears out the ammo faster than sustained pressure,
Creates more risk of an accidental discharge than just leaving the gun alone."

Which springs are you talking about. I have seen magazine tube springs compressed for so long that they will literally not push the last shell out of the tube. It wont hurt or soften a spring to take the tension off it, In fact its probably beneficial. As to the ammo wearing out, I assume that your talking about wear on the brass rim. If you unload the shells as Lee described, there is minimal wear. Our officers were issued new ammo every time they qualified (twice a year) and the old stuff was used in part of the training. Not once did I ever see a shell that had been so worn, it wouldn't work during the qual/training day. We also had a liberal policy to reissue ammo if needed. If someone felt they had a bad nick in the rim, or a bad round, they were issued a replacement right at roll call. No questions asked.

The point of creating more of a risk of an accidental discharge than just leaving the gun alone. Think about that. The day an officer needs to really use that weapon for real, he had better be extremely proficient with it. Daily repetition of the things learned on the range during the training day will create that desired level of proficiency. The risk of an AD is minimized by good training and as I said in my first post the weapon pointed down into the seat during unloading and loading was policy and it actually did prevent any injuries in the one AD we had in Thirty of years of using this procedure. I don't say it works for everyone, but the original poster asked for my thoughts and I shared them. I hope you understand that nothing is perfect. Least of all opinions, but these are based on my expiriences.

[mljdeckard]

Springs wear out from repeated compression and release, not from extended compression.

Repeated loading and unloading means you are repeatedly manipulating the action. This carries much more risk than just leaving it loaded and following the four rules. You should have good training no matter how you handle the gun or how often you load it.

[conhntr]

ok murphy i thought you where saying to click the safety on and off when playing with it to familiarize with controls.

i love the 870 safety and as you said i just tap it when im ready to shoot to make sure its flat. i cant imagine why anyone would prefer a "tang mounted" safety which just seems clumsy in comparison

[w_houle]

What about using something like this?
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4675.html
I know, it's unfortunate that you're not going to find it already loaded.

[DBR]

Regarding shell bulging: all shells are not created equal. Federal makes a point that their LE ammo is designed to resist this problem. I don't know about Winchester or Remington.

If policy allows, loading -1 in the mag greatly relieves both the bulge problem and mag spring issues.

[Murphys Law]

ok murphy i thought you where saying to click the safety on and off when playing with it to familiarize with controls.

i love the 870 safety and as you said i just tap it when im ready to shoot to make sure its flat. i cant imagine why anyone would prefer a "tang mounted" safety which just seems clumsy in comparison
Yeah, I love it to for the same reason.:) I don't say its better, just what i'm used to. If I spent a lifetime using Mossies, I'd probaly prefer their safety.

[Sailorman]

Murphy, I agree with your idea of engendering familiarity with the firearm. Being able to manipulate the controls in the dark or daylight, potentially under stress, is easier because one has done it hundreds of times; it is also something the Armed Forces are relearning (just got back from a tour with Marines in Iraq in FEB). Earlier in the string comments were the first time I ever heard that relieving pressure (by unloading or shooting) was bad for springs. In Iraq, if we hadn't expended ammunition after a week, we unloaded rounds and swapped to fresh magazines if available to give the ones that had been constantly loaded but not shot time to get springy again. I have seen (Beretta M9) pistol magazines that had noticebly less spring because they were loaded and left. Also, as somebody commented earlier, loading less than full capacity should spare the spring, although I would not want to be loaded less than full if my or somebody else's life depended on it. Just more of my 2 cents: I have used both 870s and Mossberg 500s in the Navy for security, I prefer (and own) the 870.