The Battle of the classic .380's!


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Skillet
March 7, 2010, 04:16 PM
So I have been looking into some classic 380's, and i have narrowed It down to four.

The Walther PPK
The CZ 83
The Bersa Thunder 380
The SIG p232


http://i47.tinypic.com/nlx72c.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/15e7qci.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/24gm7md.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/15xpjkz.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/4jqplf.jpg

What do you think about these, what guns would you pick, and have you owned one of these guns, and If you have, what did you or didn't you like about it?

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KevinR
March 7, 2010, 04:19 PM
What about the SIG 232, One of the best I think :p

Ed4032
March 7, 2010, 04:26 PM
I like the Bersa. I have three and two PP's. I still like the Bersas best.

NMGonzo
March 7, 2010, 04:42 PM
I own a Bersa.

I shoot the nastiest and cheapest stuff that I can afford.

Is yet to fail me.

usp9
March 7, 2010, 04:47 PM
You left the best one off your list...The Beretta 84/85.

They're all good, some are just... more good. ;)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/My380s.jpg

wlewisiii
March 7, 2010, 04:49 PM
I have owned a CZ. Good gun but big for the caliber. If I ever get another .380 it'll be a Colt 1908 Pocket Hammerless.

William

dogtown tom
March 7, 2010, 05:29 PM
:DYup, you left off the best of the "big" .380's:

Browning BDA
Beretta 84
Beretta 85
Star Super SM
Colt Goverment Model

sidheshooter
March 7, 2010, 05:43 PM
I've owned the Bersa (mine was a dud) still own a ppk (THE classic, but somewhat dated in handling, IMHO. I'll never sell it though) and shot the sig.

In addition to the above, I'd be throwing in another vote for the Beretta and its derivations as #1. I have not yet shot the CZ yet, though.

The one .380 that I own that has never, ever choked is an ancient 1934. We're talking many decades of reliability and thousands of rounds.

The only thing about those 84/85 (or 86 or browning) is that they are darn big for a .380, but that wouldn't stop me from owning one.
JMO.

huntsman
March 7, 2010, 05:44 PM
sig 232

strangelittleman
March 7, 2010, 06:31 PM
You left the best one off your list...The Beretta 84/85.

They're all good, some are just... more good.
You're right about that USP9...Is that a Sphinx .380 on the right second one down?
Also let's not forget the Colt M1908 nor the Beretta M70.

jeepguy
March 7, 2010, 06:39 PM
i have a cz 82(9x18) & it is nice esp with the extra rds. my dad has the sig & it is nice but les capacity. i cant comment on the others. but if im going to carry 380 i want the extra rounds. no offense i just think 380 & 9x18 are on the light side. which is why i go with the cz. plus i have big hands & i can get my whole hand on the grip.

Jeff23
March 7, 2010, 07:00 PM
Awhile back I was agonizing over a CZ or a Beretta-- got much good advice and great recommendations for each. The thread is around someplace if you look for it. Then I was shopping around and came across an amazing deal on a Sig P230, liked the way it looked and felt, and just up and bought it. Been shooting it quite alot, and it has yet to give so much as a hiccup. No jams, shoots where I point it. I've fired several kinds of ammo through it. I'd still buy the CZ or the Beretta or the Walther though. I've never been one to go for a gun just because it costs a few bucks less, but people do say Bersas shoot fine. My P230 isn't my main HD or CCW gun, so I guess if I just wanted a .380 to mess around with, I might buy a Bersa. Gun buys are so personal in the end, eh? Unless there's something major wrong with a given model that everyone warns you about. Sig and the American Berettas have de-cockers if that's any issue for you. I like the de-cocker, some don't. Carry On!

m2steven
March 7, 2010, 07:22 PM
I have all but the sig 232. The Bersa is the winner and would be if it were a few hundred dollars more expensive. I love the CZ but it's not quite the pistol the Bersa is even if it's twice as nice looking and nearly as reliable. I shoot the Walther the best of the bunch. It's (to me) got the best sights and it will put lead exactly where you point the gun. It rubs the skin off the webbing between my thumb and forefinger (not slide bite either). Makes me bleed after about 2 boxes of cartridges.

Bersas with laser grips were selling a month or two ago for 400.00. I'm an idiot for not jumping on that deal.

Snowdog
March 7, 2010, 07:24 PM
Ugh, I hate to answer a question with a question, but...
If you're seriously considering a CZ-83, is there some reason not to consider the nearly identical CZ-82 that's chambered in a near identical cartridge (as far as ballistics go) and sells for about half the price?

To purchase an excellent condition CZ-82 and have it refinished (especially if done yourself with Gun-Kote or the ilk) would save you about $200 that you could spend on ammunition (that's currently easier to find and cheaper to purchase than .380acp).
I have a CZ-82 and while a little on the large size for the .380acp/9x18, it's incredibly comfortable, accurate and reliable. If you're jonesing for a high-capacity auto in a cartridge similar to a .380acp, the CZ-82 is hard to beat.

When reading your thread title, I was thinking more along the lines of a Browning BDA, Colt .380 Gov't model or Mustang. I've tossed around the idea of buying a Colt Gov't model .380acp for years, but can't find a use for one (especially since I've had a K9 for about as long). They're cute pistols though.

cjl8651
March 7, 2010, 07:31 PM
Walther PPK.

fastbolt
March 7, 2010, 07:33 PM
Is this for shooting or just to look at in the safe?

I've seen a lot of .380's come through various LE & civilian ranges over the years. Some work and some don't.

I had a Beretta M84 that I finally traded off because it wouldn't consistently feed, even using FMJ. New mag springs wouldn't do the trick. Keeping it clean and properly lubricated wouldn't do the trick. It just wasn't the same gun being praised in the magazine articles of that era. ;)

Walthers? Seen a LOT of them. Seen more that wouldn't function than those that would function. Sort of a 'lodge pin' of LE for off-duty and deep concealment in years gone by. Sometimes someone's hand got in the way of the slide and slowed functioning/feeding down, leading to a stoppage (slide bite), and sometimes the guns just didn't like to feed even FMJ. The loaded chamber indicator jammed up one gun. Another few of them had issues develop with the decockers. Not something I ever felt inclined to own and carry, myself.

If I were going to carry a .380 ACP (instead of a similarly sized 9mm), I'd lean toward the Sig Sauer. I've yet to see one fail to function during a qual course of fire, even with JHP ammunition.

I'd rather carry a similarly sized 9mm, though.

Of course, I'm not exactly a collector of what's sometimes considered to be sub-caliber pocket pistols, either, so my thoughts may be of little interest to folks who like to collect little pistols. :)

LibertySympathizer
March 7, 2010, 07:39 PM
Drat, when you said classic, I couldn't wait to see if there was a pic of a Colt Mustang. :banghead:

usp9
March 7, 2010, 08:13 PM
USP9...Is that a Sphinx .380 on the right second one down?

Yes it is. Sweet, compact little jewel, holds 11+1, DAO trigger, and.... it also can use CZ82/83 magazines. :cool:

Skillet
March 7, 2010, 08:15 PM
Drat, when you said classic, I couldn't wait to see if there was a pic of a Colt Mustang.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qxqlcm.jpg

There you go

Harvey
March 7, 2010, 08:34 PM
LibertySympathizer Drat, when you said classic, I couldn't wait to see if there was a pic of a Colt Mustang.

Exactly. Without the venerable Mustang, this thread is all the more blather ... alas.

rellascout
March 7, 2010, 08:45 PM
Sorry but I will take a Beretta 84FS everyday of the week over every gun on your list...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/DSCF2034.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/DSCF2037.jpg

buy guns
March 7, 2010, 08:58 PM
You have the capacity of the Bersa listed as 7 rounds but they are available with a 15 round capacity as well. That would be something to take into consideration if you're looking for a carry gun. http://www.bersapistols.com/item/56244_Bersa_Hand_Guns_Pistols_Bersa_THUN380PLUS15_Pisto.aspx

LibertySympathizer
March 7, 2010, 09:38 PM
http://i48.tinypic.com/2qxqlcm.jpg

There you go
Much better.

Me likey!

cyclopsshooter
March 7, 2010, 10:23 PM
Spiegle grips on a Gov 380 for me too :) Ordered some sterling Colt medallions to spice it up!

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/DSC001412.jpg

M&PVolk
March 7, 2010, 11:25 PM
I have a lot of experience with the Bersa. It has been perfectly reliable and is a great gun. I would not consider it pocketable, though, if you have any interest in that. The Walther I have never shot, but have a friend who used one in combat and swears by it.

GRIZ22
March 7, 2010, 11:50 PM
I was expecting a PPK, 1910 Browning, 1934 Beretta, and Mauser HSC when I saw "classic".

Skillet
March 8, 2010, 12:34 AM
Well i sort of meant that classic look. classic lines, old fashioned design, that's what I like.

labhound
March 8, 2010, 01:39 AM
I've got the Beretta 85FS and the CZ 83. Either is a great choice. Both are accurate with low recoil. The Beretta fits my wife's hand best, the CZ fits mine. The only problem with either is the CZ's grip screws will tend to loosen, and if overtightened the grips will crack by the backstrap.

MICHAEL T
March 8, 2010, 02:04 AM
Bersa in those you have selected
Colt Mustang if your willing to pay entry price for a pistol no longer made.

toivo
March 8, 2010, 03:26 AM
If you're seriously considering a CZ-83, is there some reason not to consider the nearly identical CZ-82 that's chambered in a near identical cartridge (as far as ballistics go) and sells for about half the price?

What he said. I looked at a nickel CZ-83 in a Gander Mountain store, where they wanted $700 (which is more than MSRP, if anyone's keeping score). And if I had bought it, they wouldn't have been able to sell me any ammo for it because they didn't have any, nor did they have any idea when they would be getting any. Instead, I bought a CZ-82 from J&G for $210 and got 1000 rounds of ammo for it for another $210. Haven't done the Duracoat thing yet, so it does have that "lived-in" look, but who cares? I'll get it prettied up one day.

sixgun MAK
March 8, 2010, 07:24 AM
My Bersa has never let me down.

CZF
March 8, 2010, 11:21 AM
Czweetness!

Maybe the new kid on the block, but what a sweetheart it is!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/GUNS2/MDE/Marschal%20Grips/Kevin-1.jpg
A great little gun when you would otherwise go unarmed.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/GUNS2/MDE/DT380-2.jpg

easyg
March 8, 2010, 11:39 AM
Sig all the way.

RonBernert
March 8, 2010, 02:21 PM
I had the earlier Sig 230 and liked it. I sold it a few years ago, but wish I hadn't. I sort of replaced it (ducking behind the desk) with a Polish P64. The P64 is an excellent gun for the money and actually packs slightly more punch with it's 9mm Makarov cartridge. Not quite as comfy to shoot as the 230, but 30% the cost.... (still ducking behind the desk):neener:

MachIVshooter
March 8, 2010, 02:52 PM
For new guns, Beretta 84 FS gets my vote in the "traditional .380's" category. Of all the .380's ever built, though, my preference is for the Remington model 51.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/Remingtonmodel51.jpg

golden
March 8, 2010, 03:02 PM
SKILLET,


I think the real question is what is the gun for?

If it is for home defense or a car gun, then I would go with the BERETTA 84 hands down. The CZ 82 or 83 would be a close second.
Both are large enough to be easy handled and controlled. Both have large magazine capacities unless you go for the BERETTA 85 or 86.


For concealed carry, it it more complicated. Of the BERSA, SIG and WALTHER, I only have experience with the SIG. I like it, but would prefer the BERETTA in a hip holster. The BERETTA is more reliable than the 3 above guns in my opinion with better handling and a larger magazine.

I have shot the COLT 1908 Pocket Pistol and do not like the sights or small controls on it. It is a very nice gun otherwise.

If money is a concern, the BERSA has a good reputation (but I have not used it myself) and is well priced.

Good luck,

Jim

IMTHDUKE
March 8, 2010, 03:15 PM
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/Seecamp.jpg
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996561662.jpg
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996573188.jpg

usp9
March 8, 2010, 03:55 PM
...I took my Sig P232 blue, Beretta 84 and Sphinx AT380 to the range to do a "Which do I like best" test. I hadn't shot any of these guns in over a year. My intent was to bring home the target and post it, but I left it at the range.:banghead: No great loss to anyone, as they all shoot about the same, at least in my hands they do.

The Sig has the best grip, points well, has good sights. I have a Hogue grip that makes it very easy on the recoil. No doubt a classic.

The Beretta has the best trigger, has never faltered, never failed, boringly dependable. I like that. It shot high a few inches, or I did. Hmmmm.:confused: The sights could be better. Mine has Pachmayr grips, a great grip, but it adds girth, and girth isn't needed on the Beretta.

The Sphinx isn't as popular or well known, but I really like this gun. It is very accurate, which is puzzling because the sights are not very good, definitely the weakest link in this otherwise superb gun. I like the trigger because it is smooth as butter.

I shot it the Shinx the best, followed by the Sig and close behind was the Beretta. Surprising because I usually shoot the Beretta very well as I carried it for years.

Classics are classic because they offer some intangible quality as well as good performance. When they hang around as long as some mentioned in the thread have, it is because they are special..and it's hard to wrong with any of them. ;)

Wish I had the target...DOOH!

Skillet
March 8, 2010, 05:50 PM
All of these guns that I posted can go in the CC catagory. but they would be fun to plink with.

HisSoldier
March 8, 2010, 06:29 PM
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc225/partsproduction/colt380.jpg

I like the all steel frame of the PPK/S, Government .380 and Mustang, some Sigs have steel frames, but they have the obnoxious heel mag release. Some folks like them I guess.

W.E.G.
March 8, 2010, 07:08 PM
Hey,... don't forget the Mauser HSc!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/HSC.jpg

makarovnik
March 8, 2010, 07:22 PM
Sig 232, Browning BDA, Berettas, CZ. Probably in that order.

smirnoff a
March 8, 2010, 08:25 PM
Sig 232 is waht I have now and like it. I sold my PPK a while back. I've been looking for Sphinx on and off over the years - too bad they are not imported.

REAPER4206969
March 8, 2010, 08:36 PM
A Challenger appears...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/B2.jpg

rellascout
March 8, 2010, 09:18 PM
nice Pic..... :rolleyes::cool:

HexHead
March 8, 2010, 09:25 PM
Drat, when you said classic, I couldn't wait to see if there was a pic of a Colt Mustang. :banghead:
Here's one... mine. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/scat999999/misc/DSC_0007.jpg

REAPER4206969
March 8, 2010, 09:40 PM
nice Pic.....
Best one on the 'net. http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif

Maia007
March 8, 2010, 10:22 PM
I was expecting a PPK, 1910 Browning, 1934 Beretta, and Mauser HSC when I saw "classic".
These were also what I had in mind when the term "classic" was used. We might also throw in several other fine, pre WW2 pieces.

I have owned the above mentioned four and the four you listed. And as many others as I could find priced-right.

Of your choices, I prefer the Walther PP or PPK/S, (and not the PPK) and German, not S&W.

My all-time favorite .380 is the Remington 51.....hands down. A superb piece.

glockman19
March 8, 2010, 11:34 PM
I bought a Bersa

GrandmasterB
March 9, 2010, 12:14 AM
Mustang Pocketlite!

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/bungib/PublicFolder/Guns/mustang_grips.jpg

searcher451
March 9, 2010, 06:10 PM
The Walther is a terrific pistol, with a long and storied history. If you decide to get one of those -- and it would be my recommendation -- be sure to get a German-made gun, or a French-made model (Manurhin), or an Interarms/Ranger version (made in the USA). I would steer clear of the current S&W model for a variety of reasons, all of them having to do with fit and finish and functionality. Good luck.

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