Handled a 1911 chambered in 9mm Largo yesterday...


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Skillet
March 7, 2010, 04:48 PM
So I was doing some arrands around town yesterday, and I saw a big GUNS and PAWN sign (Don't you love those?) and so I decided to stop by and look around. they had an old 1911 chambered in a 9mm largo. what do you think this is worth? I was pretty banged up and it looked pretty junky to me...

What do you think?

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7.62 Nato
March 7, 2010, 04:59 PM
Did you catch the brand name ? It may not have been a "true" 1911. One example is Llama, it's a 1911 copy. It doesn't use the same parts. Brand or country of origin would help in determining value.

Skillet
March 7, 2010, 05:03 PM
It was a Llama.

The Lone Haranguer
March 7, 2010, 05:06 PM
The Star pistols (also made in that cartridge) have a much better reputation than the Llama.

7.62 Nato
March 7, 2010, 05:09 PM
I would consider the Llama to be worth whatever you would be willing to give for it. I don't believe there is any historical or collector value. But I was wrong once before. :rolleyes:

Skillet
March 7, 2010, 05:16 PM
Dang, I thought I found a deal.

AJChenMPH
March 7, 2010, 09:12 PM
A little off-topic...but what's 9mm Largo?

The Lone Haranguer
March 7, 2010, 09:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x23mm_Largo

Despite the dimensions it is NOT interchangeable with the 9x23mm Winchester - the Winchester version is much too hot for the old guns.

jbkebert
March 7, 2010, 09:35 PM
I owned a 9mm largo while I was in high school. Mine was made by Star and was really a fun gun to shoot. Ammo seemed to be readily available in my home town. I ended up trading that pistol for a Savage 24 in .223/20 ga. Had that gun ever since and made one heck of a trade in my favor.

Full Metal Jacket
March 7, 2010, 10:57 PM
It was a Llama.

:eek::eek:

Full Metal Jacket
March 7, 2010, 10:59 PM
The Star pistols (also made in that cartridge) have a much better reputation than the Llama.


:eek:

R. Deckard
March 7, 2010, 11:12 PM
How much were they asking for it?

Deckard

Full Metal Jacket
March 7, 2010, 11:19 PM
too much....

Skillet
March 7, 2010, 11:53 PM
something like two hundred dollars

MICHAEL T
March 8, 2010, 02:06 AM
$1.98 would be to much for a Llama

tekarra
March 8, 2010, 08:24 PM
Apart from the Omni, I would not recommend a Llama.

Mastiff
March 9, 2010, 02:10 AM
Despite the dimensions it is NOT interchangeable with the 9x23mm Winchester - the Winchester version is much too hot for the old guns.

I've got a Star Super A that I shoot 9x23 Winchester through. They were making these pistols up into the 80's, they are plenty strong enough for the 9x23 Winchester in my opinion. 9mm Largo was loaded up to .38 Super levels, and the 38 Super was the load of choice in America for those who couldn't score any 9mm Largo for these pistols. Ricci designed the 9x23 to use in unmodified 38 Supers. The 9x23 has the strongest case they make for a handgun, most of the extra pressure is held in by that thick case.
I wouldn't shoot 9x23 through the earlier pistols, nor for that matter any Spanish pistol but Star or LLama.
Just my opinion, and I don't claim to be an expert. If anyone wants further information, I'd be happy to provide it.

jcwit
March 9, 2010, 07:31 AM
too much....

Ever own one? If not, your statemeny is nothing more than an opinion.

BTW, yes I do own Stars and Llamas, 7 altogether, they all shoot fine and are accurate, and I also reload for the 9mm Largo.

jcwit
March 9, 2010, 07:36 AM
I've got a Star Super A that I shoot 9x23 Winchester through. They were making these pistols up into the 80's, they are plenty strong enough for the 9x23 Winchester in my opinion. 9mm Largo was loaded up to .38 Super levels, and the 38 Super was the load of choice in America for those who couldn't score any 9mm Largo for these pistols. Ricci designed the 9x23 to use in unmodified 38 Supers. The 9x23 has the strongest case they make for a handgun, most of the extra pressure is held in by that thick case.
I wouldn't shoot 9x23 through the earlier pistols, nor for that matter any Spanish pistol but Star or LLama.
Just my opinion, and I don't claim to be an expert. If anyone wants further information, I'd be happy to provide it.

If I were "which I'm not" I'd back off to 9mm Largo loadings, these pistols were not made for the pressures of the 38 Super or the 9 x 23 Winchester. But then again its your
body. This is not an opinion but knowledge derived from reloading manuals.

Mastiff
March 9, 2010, 06:03 PM
The reloading manuals have to take into account all the really old pistols in 9mm Largo. The earliest, I think, was in 1901. I don't doubt they couldn't handle either the .38 Super or 9x23 Winchester pressures. We see the same thing with other old cartridges. The loadings are set so they will be safe in the weakest pistol that will fire the round. The Star Super A was made until the early 80's. Do you really think that the pistol was so weak it couldn't handle .38 Super? And the 9x23 was designed to be able to make Major from unmodified Super barrels.

From another site:

Quote Originally Posted by Los Adaes
MikesChevelle, I was reading one of the above posts, please for your own safety don't fire 38 Super in your Star. The chamber pressure is way beyond what it was designed for.

My response:

I suggest that you are incorrect. I have fired 9x23 Winchester in my Star Super A, which is a more powerful round than the 38 Super, with no adverse effects. A gentleman, Clark, on another forum, has overloaded 9x23 Winchester in a Star Super B with no ill effects (see below). Thousands of these pistols were marked 9mm/38 and were sold as firing the 38 Super. None of them blew up that I can find. They have conducted burst tests to 70,000 CUP that the Star Super A passed with flying colors.
The Star Super A is built like a tank, and can handle these pressures. The older 9mm Largo firearms were not as strongly built, and I really doubt they could handle the pressure.
I have researched this left, right and sideways. I can give you links to what I am saying. I think the comments that the Star Super A can not handle 38 Super is a complete myth.

From Clark:
From http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...t=tokarev+9x23
It is Post #21

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


**************

I also have converted a Star Super B.
That pistol frame with long enough magazine for 9mm Largo, but is chambered for 9x19.
I converted one for 9x23mm and have been shooting it with
158 gr LSWC, 10 gr LONGSHOT, 1.129"
In contrast, Hodgdon in 2002 showed for maximum load for 357 magnum:
158 gr HNDY XTP JHP, 8.4 gr LONGSHOT, 1.580" 1394 fps, 43,200 c.u.p.

To deal with heavy recoil, I reamed out the recoil spring coweling of the Star slide from .431" to .4375", to use a spring from Wolff gunsmith pak #14 with OD = .433". More can be reamed out and a still better spring can be used, the guide rod must be reduced in diameter.

And another response:

Quote Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs View Post
They ARE basically a 1911 copy. I believe Super is safe. I have never had problems, either. The MV and energy levels are about the same. Llamas were sometimes marked ".38 Super," and were the same gun as the largo model.

And my reply

Thank you, Bill. I am glad of your support on this. Most people I've told this to won't look at the evidence, they just repeat the line that the pistol wasn't designed to handle the pressure,

EDIT: The 1982 edition of Gun Digest had an article by Wm H. Smith, where he reviewed the Llama and Star pistols. He used 38 Super in these pistols with no problems with 38 Super power levels. He even stated that the 38 Super was the best substitute for 9mm Largo for American shooters. This was on page 200. The Star he was reviewing was not the Star Super A, but the older Star A.

Last edited by Mastiff; 04-04-2008 at 06:26 AM.

Full Metal Jacket
March 9, 2010, 07:05 PM
Ever own one? If not, your statemeny is nothing more than an opinion.

no. however, i have fired them quite a few times. (and guess what? your statement is opinion too, so what's your point?)


BTW, yes I do own Stars and Llamas, 7 altogether, they all shoot fine and are accurate, and I also reload for the 9mm Largo.

:eek: ok.

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