Taurus Judge but which


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Ghostrider_23
March 9, 2010, 09:37 PM
I've decide that I would like to have a Judge for the truck but need your input as to which one to get. Given the ammo shortage which one:

3" magnum

or

2 1/2"

3" or 4" barrel

When you pick please tell me WHY?????

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The Bushmaster
March 9, 2010, 11:07 PM
S&W .357 magnum...Because the judge is about as useful as teets on a boar...;)

They still making them with a smooth bore?:rolleyes:

A good .357 magnum can fire .38 Specials and CCI magnum snake shot...Been shooting copperheads with my 9mmX19 and 115 grain HPs around here. Don't have to be soo close and I'm a good enough shot...:D

atlanticfire
March 9, 2010, 11:10 PM
S&W .357 magnum...
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0065.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-angel-smileys.php)
Maybe even a Ruger.....

Ghostrider_23
March 9, 2010, 11:15 PM
I like the thought of 5 '0000' buck pellets rushing out at ounce.

That doesn't sound good to youy?????

highorder
March 9, 2010, 11:18 PM
I like the thought of 5 '0000' buck pellets rushing out at ounce.

I'd rather have a single 255gr. 45 Colt slug fired from a gun with a much shorter cylinder and decent rifling.

Opinions vary; this is America.

FoMoGo
March 9, 2010, 11:20 PM
I like the idea of a 125 gr .357 round, a 250 gr .45 round, or a 240 gr .44 round rolling at HIGH speed.
The judge is popular right now... I wouldnt mind having one.
I bet I could trade someone who doesnt know better out of a good gun with it.


Jim

The Bushmaster
March 9, 2010, 11:26 PM
Yup...A Ruger will do too.

Ghostrider...You will have to excuse me (I really don't care, but). I'm a bit prejudice when it comes to the judge or any other Taurus for that matter. Taurus has issues. A few have launched their barrels down range or cracked at the barrel threads. The judge was (I believe) first manufactured with a smooth bore. Whether it is now I don't know.

They have been playing with shotgun and rifle combos for a hundred years or more and they still are not a sound investment in self protection. The judge is no different except for the short barrel that will have a problem launching pellets very far or with lethal force. (though they ARE scary lookin')(Ugly is more the word I was lookin' for)

shockwave
March 9, 2010, 11:29 PM
If this is a "truck gun," then we'll assume you mean big rig. The owner/operator won't be shooting at football-field distances, he or she will be defending the cab. So we're talking pretty much point-blank range. For this application, the Judge is a viable call. You're thinking of loading .410 shells, so given the choice I'd go: 3" magnum and 4" barrel to maximize power and velocity. Used in the 10-foot range, the shells will be enough to rip the face off somebody and the followup .45 slugs are strong.

The conventional wisdom here is that the Judge is longer and unwieldly, underpowered, and what you want it to do can be better accomplished with a small-frame .357 - which can shoot shotshells, .38s and .357 mag, in a more compact package.

Nicodemus38
March 10, 2010, 12:10 AM
recoil can be unpleasent in the alloy versions according to reports. hence go for the steel models.

the 3 inch barrel will be a bit easier to swing around inside a vehicle, so as a result borrow one from a friend and see what seems to work best in the vehicle your going to carry in it.

a federal 410 handgun buckshot load followed by 255 gr semiwadcutters in a 45 colt will be verry efficient. its what id do with a judge.

JWF III
March 10, 2010, 09:00 AM
The Judge is a good gun, if you learn it's limitations.

I bought the very first one I ever saw (before I saw any advertising of it). The day I bought it, I patterned it with #6 shot (the only shells I had at the house). It's a fun gun to shoot. Recoil is mild. But the pattern was horrible. Patterning distance was about 3 yards, at a large piece of cardboard (~4 feet square). The pattern it threw out looked like a 3 foot diameter doughnut. (Later patterns of 000 Buck faired a little better.)

I take the Judge to our (informal) skeet shooting. (I've broken a few that were over head shots. It's extremely difficult to do regularly.) But I use either .357 or 9mm for carry use. I wouldn't trust my life to a Judge. But then again, I didn't buy it with that intention.

Wyman

Ghostrider_23
March 10, 2010, 09:12 AM
WOW,

OK, you all have changed my mind. I guess I'll keep my G-23 still I find it hard to believe that at 10 feet (legal distance for deadly force in my state) 410 3" magnum will not put a real hurting on someone trying to hurt you while you are driving caught off guard.

I mean come on everyone, at 10 feet you are going to hurt someone with a 22lr. It's hard for me to think that 5 '0000' pellets aren't as good as a 22lr.

Maybe I'm wrong but you all have set me straight. Thank you for helping me not make a $400 mistake.

ljnowell
March 10, 2010, 10:30 AM
Ghostrider...You will have to excuse me (I really don't care, but). I'm a bit prejudice when it comes to the judge or any other Taurus for that matter. Taurus has issues. A few have launched their barrels down range or cracked at the barrel threads. The judge was (I believe) first manufactured with a smooth bore. Whether it is now I don't know.


No, it wasnt. How exactly would the manufacture it with a smooth bore in a handgun? That would be totally ilegal and unavailable for sale in the US. They have a much shallower rifling than others, but not a smoothbore.

The haters will hate, the lovers will love. Decide which one you are. I would like to have one for snakes and whatnot. If I feel the need to launch a .45 colt load, it would be from my blackhawk. I would also be afraid of one of my ruger only loads getting into that taurus and speed-disassembling it.

Dimis
March 10, 2010, 04:42 PM
ghost dont let people disscourage you
there are alot of people that hate the judge and took way to much stock it that box o truth review
if anyone honesttly thinks that the .45colt or .410 0000 buck loads wont perform out of a judge stand in front of one once and see how comfortable you feel... EXACTLY my point
no matter how small or large or "worthless" a firearm is no one wants to break that rule

yes the judge is an oddity and yes its not as effective as other firearms but honestly i wouldnt feel undergunned with one
and yes i own a 3 inch magnum model
i also own an LCR and a 1911 so the judge isnt my first choice for my own defencive handgun but you can be sure that if i had to use it i wouldnt be scared that it couldnt do the job

Last Knight
March 10, 2010, 04:44 PM
...still I find it hard to believe that at 10 feet (legal distance for deadly force in my state)...

Legal distance for self defense? As in, you can't shoot anyone from closer than 10 feet, or can't shoot anyone further away than 10 feet?

And either which way, that's ridiculous. I'm supposed to close within 10 feet of the guy with a gun to stop him - or alternately, try to backpedal 10 feet from the guy with the knife?

wrs840
March 10, 2010, 05:17 PM
recoil can be unpleasent in the alloy versions according to reports. hence go for the steel models.

No. No. No.

I've owned both steel and Ultralite, in 2-3/4", 3" bbl. I sold the steel one and kept the Ultralite. I still use it as a beater around the farm. The reduced weight makes it way more comfortable to wear on the hip than the steel one was, and I even like it better than my S&W Model 64 (with Pachmayrs on it) sometimes, especially when sitting in a tractor seat, because the Judge is slightly more compact, especially at the grips, (and noticeably lighter too.) Hunter makes a thumb-break leather holster especially for it that is really "just right" for farm and woods carry.

As far as "recoil", OK maybe it recoils more than my steel one did, and certainly more than the .38, but it is certainly not objectionable at all. A 12 ga 3" magnum I find a little "unpleasant", but a .410 / .45 Colt in a handgun "unpleasant"? C'mon people... ...did I stumble into Granny's Knitting and Quilting Forum somehow?


That said, it's still a snake gun as it's only "semi-ideal" use.

Les

JWF III
March 10, 2010, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider_23
...still I find it hard to believe that at 10 feet (legal distance for deadly force in my state)...

Legal distance for self defense? As in, you can't shoot anyone from closer than 10 feet, or can't shoot anyone further away than 10 feet?

And either which way, that's ridiculous. I'm supposed to close within 10 feet of the guy with a gun to stop him - or alternately, try to backpedal 10 feet from the guy with the knife?

I'm curious about this too? What state?

Wyman

MachIVshooter
March 10, 2010, 06:23 PM
still I find it hard to believe that at 10 feet (legal distance for deadly force in my state)...

A hostile man with a knife is considered an imminent deadly threat at 21 feet. This sounds like gunshop gossip to me.

As for the Judge, there are much better choices for defense. I'd take a charter bulldog .44 over the Judge.

weregunner
March 11, 2010, 01:23 AM
The scoop on the Judge from the actual users.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=500365
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6164900&postcount=30
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6136266&postcount=11

wrs840
March 11, 2010, 01:50 AM
Just as a postscript, the Hunter thumb-break leather holster I referred to above that is specifically fitted to a 2-3/4 chamber 3" bbl Judge is Hunter # 1185 0844.

"Perfect" holster for a pretty OK farmer's sidearm... (Ultralite version)... :D

FWIW,
Les

pikid89
March 11, 2010, 01:59 AM
get a 3" or 4" ruger gp100 and be done

wrs840
March 11, 2010, 02:06 AM
get a 3" or 4" ruger gp100 and be done

Not to dog you, or question the venerable GP100, but how can "one" revolver be recommended as the final perfection?

I'm just sayin'...

Les

pikid89
March 11, 2010, 02:19 AM
Not to dog you, or question the venerable GP100, but how can "one" revolver be recommended as the final perfection?

ok ok ok get a 3" and a 4" so you will have "two" revolvers, not "one"

jk but anyway

i would choose that as a truck gun because i see a truck gun a a gun that can/may be used for many different purposes, thus must be able to take many different loadings. .357/.38 is one of those cartridges that you can generally bet you might find in jim bobs Ace Hardware in old dusty town USA...no matter what brand/bullet/fancy specs/wadcutter...most any old loading in .357 mag will probably do whatever you ask it to do in a pinch

now say what you will but i doubt you will find .45LC or your special 000000000 .410 buckshot loads in big joes army/navy surplus in route 66ville out in nowhere county


I also can see a truck gun sitting for long periods of time unused (im not saying thats good practice, but you cant say that doesnt happen)...therefore i would trust a revolver that sits there with no stressed parts/no need to stay "wet"/ no need to try and remember "did i chamber it when i put it away?/ insert odd tendencies of some autos, to perform when and where i may need it..no questions...unless youve done something seriously horrible to your revolver, your 99.99999% guaranteed 6 .357 rounds when you drag that ole revolver out of the dusty glovebox from under the taco bell wrappers (my truck) lol

wrs840
March 11, 2010, 02:38 AM
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. A GP100 would be a better truck-glove-box-gun than a Judge.

Les

BlayGlock
March 11, 2010, 02:44 AM
If it just a truck gun I would get the 4" barrel. Longer sigtht radius and a little more velocity are a good thing IMO.

eddism
March 11, 2010, 02:55 AM
Dont forget Magnum Research BFR's. Awesome handguns.

oldfool
March 11, 2010, 02:56 AM
hey, don't let 'em kid you...
it's the perfect gun for short range defense against zombie watermelons
because if the buckshot don't kill 'em with the 1st shot, the barrel flying off the end of the gun will ;)

Guns and more
March 11, 2010, 10:53 AM
There was a story posted on this forum a while back where a woman defended herself from attack using a Judge, and the perp assumed room temperature.
So they can be effective.
If I wanted one, I'd get one. They must sell a bunch because Federal (?) is making rounds just for them. They make a lot more sense than the Rossi revolver shotgun.

PX15
March 11, 2010, 11:17 AM
FWIW:

I personally never cared for the Judge, as I have no watermelons I needed to dispatch with one, but recently I have come to the conclusion that for certain situations one might be just the ticket.

My friend bought a motor home and wanted a firearm to have when he and his wife were on the road, or camping or whatever. He bought the Ultralight (or whatever it's called) Judge with the intentions of using it strictly as his "motorhome" self defense weapon.

His Judge fits in a holster on the left side of the drivers seat (no door on that side), and is easily accessible to the driver. At night he takes the Judge into the back of the coach to the sleeping area and has it there.

His wife is NOT a gun person, but she can shoot the Judge if she had to.. Just point and pull and SHAZAM lots of dramatic happenings occur...:what:

This friend is a gun nut, and has all sorts of other firearms to chose from, but he believes for THIS particular application the Judge fits the bill better than anything else.

We took the light Judge out back and shot it the day he got it, and I'd have to say it's pretty impressive, shooting a target up close and personal..

I'm not a Taurus person in general, and I wouldn't have considered a Judge before my buddy got his, but I have to admit I think its a good choice for his particular need.

Just personal opinion.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. IF I were in the market for a Judge (I'm not) it would definitely be the lightweight version.

MachIVshooter
March 11, 2010, 11:52 AM
Dont forget Magnum Research BFR's. Awesome handguns.

Considering we're talking about a 4" Judge being a little unwieldy, that put's the BFR in a whole new category of humongulous. They compare with the x-frame Smith. There are rifles that are only marginally longer and heavier than the BFR......

jfrey
March 11, 2010, 12:11 PM
There seems to be a lot of folks expressing their opinions here, who don't know what they are talking about. I have had a Judge for a couple of years and it is a very accurate pistol with either .410 or .45 rounds. I have had no issues with it and the barrel has never flown off at anything. The recoil is very manageable and it is fun to shoot. I didn't hear anyone here offer to be shot with one to test the supposed ineffectiveness they profess. Makes you wonder how much shop talk is actually going on. The judge has a place in the firearm world and in certain applications, is a great gun. No gun fits every application, so why should the Judge be drug through the mud because it doesn't fit everyone's idea of perfection?

pikid89
March 11, 2010, 01:17 PM
They must sell a bunch because Federal is making rounds just for them.

To me that is a bad thing...if you start to over rely on these special shells you only limit the versatility

@jfrey

what applications does a judge have that a good .357 cant do better

NMGonzo
March 11, 2010, 01:35 PM
^^^

Snakes!

REAPER4206969
March 11, 2010, 01:38 PM
Pearl River woman shoots husband after he admits affair from 15 years ago
by Jeff Adelson, The Times-Picayune
Thursday September 10, 2009, 11:10 AM
http://blog.nola.com/crime_impact/2009/09/small_conniedavis.jpg
Connie DavisA Pearl River-area woman shot her husband twice in the back with bird shot Tuesday after he admitted to having an affair 15 years ago, authorities said.

Connie Davis and her husband began arguing about the affair after he came clean about it in the yard of their home at 37447 Earl Bennett Road about 2 p.m., St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office spokesman George Bonnett said Thursday.

After her husband's confession, Davis took a revolver chambered for .410-caliber shotgun shells and began shooting at him, Bonnett said. The gun, a model known as "The Judge," was loaded with bird-shot shells, he said.

Davis fired five shots at her husband as he ran away through their yard, Bonnett said. Davis' husband was hit in the upper and lower back by bird shot from two shells, he said.

After running away, Davis found that he didn't have a cell phone, Bonnett said. He used a two-way radio to call into his workplace and tell them that his wife was trying to kill him, he said. His coworkers then relayed the messages to the Sheriff's Office.

Connie Davis had already left when deputies arrived and found her husband sitting in a swing in his front yard, Bonnett said. Her husband was taken to the Louisiana Heart Hospital where he was treated for his injuries, which were not serious, and released, he said.

Deputies stopped Davis a short time later as she was driving on Gause Boulevard and arrested her, Bonnett said. She had a shotgun shell in her pocket and the gun on the seat next to her, he said.

Davis, 53, was booked into the St. Tammany Parish jail in Covington with attempted second-degree murder. She is being held on a $75,000 bond.

"Pretty much any time you point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger, it's going to be attempted murder," Bonnett said.
....

pikid89
March 11, 2010, 01:43 PM
Snakes!


if a snake is big enough for me to use up any ordnance on it, ill just use a regular bullet...or if need be ill get some CCI shot shells

Ghostrider_23
March 12, 2010, 01:23 PM
Holly Crap!!!!!

I shot a Judge today it was only chambered for 2 1/2" shell and at 15 feet it was nasty!!!!!! The target was hit with 4 lead 000 buckshot pellets. The grouping was about in a 12" circle. Then I shot all 4 remaining rounds at the target and needless to say that target was not happy.

I have heard/read that (I'm not talking about birdshot) the 410 buchshot only penetrated 3-4 inches. But there again in the face, neck and chest that seems good to me

How deep is someones heart, more than 12-14 inches and you'll shoot through someone

I think we have grown to think we need a 105 to protect ourselves, good God people come on!!!!!!!!

pikid89
March 12, 2010, 01:32 PM
How deep is someones heart, more than 12-14 inches and you'll shoot through someone


FBI tests are 12-14 in in ballistic gelatin...not 12-14 inches through clothes, living tense muscles, sternums, ribs and such

all i know is that i have to defend my life, it will be center mass, and start pullin the trigger

Im no mall ninja so no mozambique drills for me

ArmedBear
March 12, 2010, 01:44 PM
"Pretty much any time you point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger, it's going to be attempted murder," Bonnett said.

Wise words from the Sheriff's Office Spokesman.

BI tests are 12-14 in in ballistic gelatin...not 12-14 inches through clothes, living tense muscles, sternums, ribs and such

Shhh.... If you remind people of facts like that, they might actually think about their defensive weapon choices... Can't have that...:D

Dimis
March 12, 2010, 01:46 PM
ghost justtrust the people who own them (myself included) you will not regret the purchase
there are alot of haters out there for the judge but then again there are glock haters 1911 haters etc
a gun is a personal choice
most of the comments ive ever read against the judge are from those that are too closed minded to own or shoot one
there has been ONE report of a barrel falling off and ONE review of .410 not being reliable and everyone jumps on the bashing bandwagon
my old sig used to say "no one wants to stand in front of a JUDGE" i may just change that back till i find someone brave enough to show me its a useless weapon

ArmedBear
March 12, 2010, 01:48 PM
blind faith in one's own competence is found soley among the incompetent.

Irony ROCKS!!!!

http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/tenaciousd.jpg

REAPER4206969
March 12, 2010, 01:53 PM
FBI tests are 12-14 in in ballistic gelatin...not 12-14 inches through clothes, living tense muscles, sternums, ribs and such
FBI tests are done through various intermediate barriers in to gelatin as well.

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 02:31 PM
I have heard/read that (I'm not talking about birdshot) the 410 buchshot only penetrated 3-4 inches. But there again in the face, neck and chest that seems good to me

How deep is someones heart, more than 12-14 inches and you'll shoot through someone

I think we have grown to think we need a 105 to protect ourselves, good God people come on!!!!!!!!


Wheeee.... let's look more closely at that one, shall we?

So, four 000 buck shot hit the target in a 12" circle? This is good, no?

Four .36 caliber, 73 gr. (moving around 1,100 fps...maybe) projectiles struck and penetrated 3-4"... this is good, no?

Let me ask you, would you feel comfortable defending yourself with a .32 ACP? Now, you get to shoot the methed-up attacker 4 times, but only in a 12" circle somewhat surrounding COM if you can make the hit.

Would you feel this is a good thing? Most .32 ACPs hold more than four rounds so why not use one of those? Good idea, eh? Surely a reasonable person would choose to defend themselves with a .32 ACP, especially if they got off four shots ... that will enter a bad guy but don't have the energy to penetrate the whole thorasic cavity.

And a 12" circle at 15 FEET? That is good, no? Now if I was tossing .45 caliber 230gr. projectiles, or .40 cal. 165grs., or 9mm 147 gr, etc, and I couldn't get them to impact more to the point of aim than a 12" circle at 15 FEET, on a static paper target, no less, I'd be making a valient effort to improve my situation, and FAST.

Ahhh, but those would likely be big, heavy guns ... oh, but not bigger and heavier than a "Judge" and they'd have higher capacity. Annnnnd.... what were those selling points again? :rolleyes:

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 02:34 PM
my old sig used to say "no one wants to stand in front of a JUDGE" i may just change that back till i find someone brave enough to show me its a useless weapon


To quote myself: This is a poor strawman argument used often to justify really unconscionable choices. No one wants to be shot, with ANY firearm. I don't want to be shot with a .25 ACP, .22LR, a crossbow, or a Red Ryder BB gun. That doesn't make any of them adequate to do significant damage to a violent (and possibly drug-altered) attacker to stop an attack.

I suppose I should add, nobody wants to be shot with a .32ACP four times, either, but it doesn't make it a good idea for self-defense! :D


And, as always, when the numbers are finally crunched (again...) it devolves into a question of, is it a "useless" weapon or not. In other threads the same point is often phrased, "well it's better than nothing!"
And the proper answer is SURE! It is better than being unarmed. But folks are going to the gun store and choosing to purchase these guns as though they were better than almost ANY of the other available choices for self-defense. As a buddy used to say, "the mind wobbles..."

pikid89
March 12, 2010, 02:39 PM
EDIT: i guess i posted at the same time as Sam...

I agree, if your asking what should I buy to defend my self...go with the time proven gun/caliber
If you have a judge and say "hey this is all i got...will it get the job done"... than yeah it may get it done

end EDIT

my point still stands from my second post on p.1 ...what is going to be a better defender of your life...the .357 (one of the most reputable and proven penetrator/manstopper in history or the .410 bore, that before the judge was considered only suitable for small vermin/ child's gun/ pro level trap shooter

all of a sudden the judge came out with its watermelon exploding marketing (my .22 can to that with the right bullets) and a cool/intimidating name (THE JUDGE) and the .410 is elevated to a bad guy blasting dealer of death and destruction.

Cosmose
March 12, 2010, 03:07 PM
last weekend i bought a public defender (2.5 chamber) and i love it. i have not had a chance to shoot it much, but the federal handgun ammo pattern very well at about 7 yrds ( 3-4 inch pattern) i also did the milk jug test with a 410 slug, it penetrated three jug's full of water, the same as my lcp 380 with critical defense ammo. i plan on doing the buckshot next week i think this will become my carry gun:D
i really like this gun a lot and would buy it again in a heart beat.

p.s and no my barrel did not blow off:neener:

pikid89
March 12, 2010, 03:42 PM
on that note youd be better of with .45 LC ammo

Ghostrider_23
March 12, 2010, 03:43 PM
Why does it always have to be a methed-up attacker?Most times I hear of an attacker who is not on drugs holding up, car jacking, robbing.

Let's look at your statment shall we:

Who said I am only going to shot one round that contains 4 .36 caliber, 73 gr. (moving around 1,100 fps) no I have five rounds. So that's 20 .36 caliber, 73 gr. (moving around 1,100 fps) That's pretty good

Quote:circle somewhat surrounding COM if you can make the hit.
Maybe that's why the Judge is a good chioce because you have four .36 caliber, 73 gr. (moving around 1,100 fps) at once. [U][B]When you are surprised and taken off guard

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 03:59 PM
GR23, if you feel justified in your reasoning, I'm not going to talk you out of it.

Maybe I should just say that I require something more from my defensive arms and from myself as a shooter than what this gun offers.

As they say, I won't be at your gunfight. ;)

Enjoy the Taurus.

Ghostrider_23
March 12, 2010, 04:20 PM
Sam,

Fair enough, but I am looking for a reason why 20 pellets at .36 caliber isn't good enough. If I have the REAL chance to drive away, walk away or get away from the situation then I will just so I don't have to draw a gun. AT most muggings, robberies or hold ups it's up close not 30-40 feet away and once again if I can leave I will. We all know the criminal has more rights than we do. Aiming (what aiming really), muzzle blast, slide bite, etc are all things to take into account. In a distressed time I'd like a short 12ga. with 4 rounds & a class III permit but that's not going to happen so I figure the next best thing a 410 with five rounds.

Once again I am not attacking you, I am looking for some real reasoning as to why a 410 would not be a good choice.

pikid89
March 12, 2010, 04:30 PM
20 buckshot pellets using sams numbers equal 3380 ft/lbs of energy total dumped into bad guy

6 125 grain .357 slugs (1600fps) equals 4260 ft/lbs total

8 200gr .45 acp slugs (1080fps) equals a total of 4144 ft/lbs

theres a couple reasons for you

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 04:46 PM
I am looking for a reason why 20 pellets at .36 caliber isn't good enough.
Maybe it will be. Maybe a single 40 gr. .22LR will be. Maybe just drawing the gun will scare him off. Who knows. If you trust it, fine.

BUT, I can carry a smaller, lighter gun that puts out a LOT more energy, with projectiles that penetrate and expland better, FASTER, and more accurately. So why would I choose the Judge?

If you just like it, great. Like I said, it won't be defending ME, it will be defending YOU. Maybe it is good enough for the task.

If I have the REAL chance to drive away, walk away or get away from the situation then I will just so I don't have to draw a gun.So you should walk away with your Judge and I'll walk away with a 1911 or some other handgun. Seems like a wash.

Aiming (what aiming really), muzzle blast, slide bite, etc are all things to take into account. In a distressed time I'd like a short 12ga. with 4 rounds
Really? I shoot quite a bit in defensive/practical style training with various handguns. I wouldn't trade any of them for a short-barreled shotgun or a .410 revolver for concealed carry or home defense. (Maybe a full-sized 20" barrel, full-stocked pump shotgun at home, but not a Judge anywhere.)

a class III permit
What's that?

I figure the next best thing a 410 with five rounds.I don't follow that logic, in fact I disagree with it vehemently, but it's your hide and your gun.

Chances are you'll never have to draw it anyway, so carry whatever you like, right?

Dimis
March 12, 2010, 07:10 PM
nvm just delete

MCgunner
March 12, 2010, 07:32 PM
I've never felt the urge to own a judge nor do I see the advantage in it in any situation I can think of except self defense in an apartment complex, perhaps. Might be good for that. But, I don't live in apartments, thankfully, and just keep a .38. In the car or van I alway have my carry or back up. I don't have a "car" gun or "truck" gun. I'm not sure why I should, actually. I'm armed 24/7 no matter where I am.

weregunner
March 12, 2010, 07:51 PM
I have to agree with McGunner and Sam1911 on this one.

The link explains the ammo problems as well with the Judge.

While there is a niche that the gun fills and some owners will use it within the Judge's limitations an do it well, there are others who think it is a super revolver of sorts and that is not the case.

If you have a Judge and it works for you,fine. Just please realize that there are limitations as to what the .410 payloads can really do and cannot.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=23048.0

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 07:51 PM
Why does it always have to be a methed-up attacker?Most times I hear of an attacker who is not on drugs holding up, car jacking, robbing.Could be attacked by a 98 year old lady on dialysis, I suppose. Fact is, you're not likely to be attacked by anyone, ever. And, for any individual attacker you envision yourself to be readying to face, someone will point out that the odds are against being attacked by THAT specific threat.

Maybe it will be a 300-lb. ex-pro-wrestler drug-crazed Meth addict.
Maybe it will be a big dog.
Maybe it will be a 20 year old male carjacker.
Maybe a jealous wife ... (or husband, I suppose).
Maybe it will be four robbers invading your home.
Maybe a psychopathic 8 year old cub scout.

My line of reasoning is, if I have a gun that will do a significant amount of physical damage to the meth-head, I can probably take down that jealous housewife or nutzo cub scout with it, too. :D

I'm not going to arm myself with something that I think might be sufficient for the least of my worries, especially when I can make MANY other choices which are lighter, smaller, more easily carried/concealed, more powerful, faster to operate, faster to reload, more accurate, MUCH more effective at distance, etc.

Seriously, one of my recurring concerns about this gun is that it taps into the concept of the "magical talisman" myth of the defensive shotgun. Taurus has made a HUGE effort to suggest to folks that the Judge is really just a smaller shotgun and OF COURSE, shotguns are AWESOME defensive guns. They're counting on folks to do very little research into what the gun will really do, and to hold in their mind this image that it is somehow akin to a slightly scaled down 12 ga. Rem. 870. It is a totally FALSE message. This is a gun that is FAR less capable than almost any service sidearm in every category I can think of, and yet they're selling folks on the idea that somehow it is "better" -- because it's a shotgun.

Remember that advertisement in all the gun magazines with the head of a shoot&see silhouette target obliterated with bird shot? Impressive right? :rolleyes: A shameful "snake oil" sales job if there ever was one.

Pancho
March 12, 2010, 08:32 PM
I'm rather surprised at the negative passion that we've shown about "The Judge". I was prompted to reread the January 2009 American Rifleman article on the gun in question. If I might quote "A long Judge will chamber a 000 load that delivers five pellets. At 70 grs.(per pellet), that would total 350 grs. of payload averaging 808 ft.-lbs of energy. A single hit from a standard 230-gr. .45 ACP load is about 370 ft.-lbs. Also a centered hit from the five 000 pellets would imact over a larger area and produce five individual wound channels.............At close range, a single centered hit from the Judge (000) would be devastating."
The point of all of this? The Judge has it's limitations but all guns do.
Penetration isn't everything expended energy on the target is also a factor.
The 45 ACP round has always had it's reputation for it's devastating knock down ability but if the math is to be believed it's energy is less than 1/2 that of a 3" 000, 410 round and it only has one wound channel not 5.

wrs840
March 12, 2010, 10:07 PM
While there is a niche that the gun fills and some owners will use it within the Judge's limitations and do it well, there are others who think it is a super revolver of sorts and that is not the case.

I think this sums up a year-and-a-half's worth of THR Judge-thread conclusions extremely well.

Les

REAPER4206969
March 13, 2010, 08:35 AM
Penetration isn't everything expended energy on the target is also a factor.
The 45 ACP round has always had it's reputation for it's devastating knock down ability
Seriously?

mgkdrgn
March 13, 2010, 10:25 AM
I've decide that I would like to have a Judge for the truck but need your input as to which one to get. Given the ammo shortage which one:

3" magnum

or

2 1/2"

3" or 4" barrel

When you pick please tell me WHY?????
Guess it depends on it's intended purpose, like with most other firearms.

In my case, I was looking for a combo nightstand gun, car gun, trail gun. 3" chamber wasn't out yet.

I ended up with an UltraLite with a 4" barrel, and I've been very happy with it. But, the choices were rather limited when I got it.

IF I were to do it again now, I'd go for a 3" chamber, 3" barrel, and not bother with the UltraLite. If it was to be -strictly- a car gun ... I'd be looking real close at the "Public Defenders".

jad0110
March 13, 2010, 11:14 PM
While there is a niche that the gun fills and some owners will use it within the Judge's limitations and do it well, there are others who think it is a super revolver of sorts and that is not the case.

Seriously, one of my recurring concerns about this gun is that it taps into the concept of the "magical talisman" myth of the defensive shotgun. Taurus has made a HUGE effort to suggest to folks that the Judge is really just a smaller shotgun and OF COURSE, shotguns are AWESOME defensive guns. They're counting on folks to do very little research into what the gun will really do, and to hold in their mind this image that it is somehow akin to a slightly scaled down 12 ga. Rem. 870. It is a totally FALSE message. This is a gun that is FAR less capable than almost any service sidearm in every category I can think of, and yet they're selling folks on the idea that somehow it is "better" -- because it's a shotgun.

These two items sum it up pretty well from my perspective. It's not that I hate the Judge. What I don't care for is the marketing that makes the gun out to be a wonder weapon. I am in the group that wonders how the .410 bore went from being considered underpowered, to the slayer of all foes all but overnight by hacking a couple of feet off the barrel :). Fuzzy math anyone?

Penetration isn't everything expended energy on the target is also a factor.

If this were true we should all stop carrying guns and start carrying heavy rocks, which when thrown likely contain more kenetic energy than typical handgun bullets.

As for expended energy on target, check out the Mythbusters episode "Blown Away". Basically, Buster the dummy got hit with a .50 BMG from about 10' away. A steel plate was attached to Buster in an attempt to transfer maximum energy to him. The .50 did penetrate the plate, but it lodged itself in Buster's "spine". Even with the vaunted energy levels of the .50 BMG transferred darn near 100% to the dummy, Buster only slid back an inch or so off the stand they had rigged for it before slumping to the ground. The result wasn't much different than when they had hit him with a baseball using the same rig.

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