Sorry for the stupid question, but why fake suppressors?


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waldonbuddy
March 10, 2010, 08:37 PM
I was just looking at the latest gun magazine today, and noticed a weapon with the fake suppressor.

This made me remember to post this question as I have pondered it for some time now.

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earlthegoat2
March 10, 2010, 08:40 PM
I dont know why but looks come to mind.

Here is another question. Why the functional muzzle breaks/standoff devices on shotguns?

mljdeckard
March 10, 2010, 08:40 PM
I mostly roll my eyes, but I also understand that there are cases where they are necessary to make a gun fit the overall length requirement.

zorro45
March 10, 2010, 08:44 PM
Shotgun standoff has two purposes:
1. for shooting frangible breeching rounds at doors, keeps the muzzle
in place but does not allow tight enough contact to blow up the barrel
2. the is also the universal multi-language translator for the phrase
"DON'T GET UP"

earlthegoat2
March 10, 2010, 08:48 PM
Shotgun standoff has two purposes:

I know why they are there. I dont know why manufacturers are putting them there. I suspect for the same reasons fake suppressors exist though.

Sam1911
March 10, 2010, 08:55 PM
Seems like they're a good way to get extra attention from the BATF-squad:

Apparently, just 'cause it's fake, doesn't mean it isn't, well, "real" enough:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506526

waldonbuddy
March 11, 2010, 03:50 PM
I gotta agree with Sam on this one. If those fake cans even dropped the sound down 1 db then it could give the bat men an excuse to hassle you........However, Im not knocking the ones who like, and own them.

jnyork
March 11, 2010, 04:17 PM
It's because they are just SOOO COOOl !! :scrutiny:

MacTech
March 11, 2010, 04:31 PM
I imagine it's the same reason that certain drivers put useless cosmetic crap on their *economy* cars (spoiler wings, body kits and oversized exhaust tips) and don't make any actual *performance* modifications, I guess it's all about "looking cool"

I'm cynical and antisocial, I couldn't care less what somebody thinks about my car/gun/whatever, I prefer mods that actually, you know, *INCREASE PERFORMANCE*

In the automotive world, the term for attaching useless cosmetic affectations to a vehicle for looks only is known as "Rice" or "Ricing it out" (the term derived from old-school motorcyclists that used to deride cyclists that rode Asian-manufactured motorcycles)

the current term, as I use it, and as other performance enthusiasts use it, has no racial connotations, it's designed to deride the "I'm the BEST DRIVER IN THE WORLD" attitude that these poseurs have just because they festooned their econoboxes with a bunch of stickers for performance products they don't own and for cosmetic abuses that serve only to increase weight and drag, and mess with the car's aerodynamics

Nope, not interested in "Gun Rice", thank you...

Maj.Striker
March 11, 2010, 04:36 PM
I see them a lot as well which is odd because I never see anyone selling them. Where do these people even get them for their rifles/handguns? Do they then have to thread the barrels to accept them? (If not already threaded) Seems like a lot of work for a fake look.

9teenEleven
March 11, 2010, 04:37 PM
I have not finished building it yet, but I am building a 9mm SBR AR with a suppressor. However, the barrel is shorter than the handguard. So, if I am running unsuppressed, I will be putting a fake can on, partly as a safety precaution, and partly so it doesn't look like someone chopped the end off my gun.

rcmodel
March 11, 2010, 04:42 PM
You mean like the tank-gun muzzle break, or the car muffler size "No Country for Old Men" can on certain Mossbergs?

Because Mall-Ninja's buy them like hotcakes, thats why!

rc

1KPerDay
March 11, 2010, 04:53 PM
Sorry for the stupid question, but why fake suppressor's?
Same reason there are fake boobs.

wyocarp
March 11, 2010, 05:13 PM
Same reason there are fake boobs.

I'm not sure it's the same reason as that.

Probably because most would like to have a real one but because of the laws we have it is more difficult and more costly to have the real ones.

SharpsDressedMan
March 11, 2010, 05:31 PM
I have some regustered cans, but have one fake suppressor for when I want to put my pistol on display without running the risk of losing a Class III weapon.

Zoogster
March 11, 2010, 05:41 PM
I gotta agree with Sam on this one. If those fake cans even dropped the sound down 1 db then it could give the bat men an excuse to hassle you........

Most fake suppressors drop the db by 1, especially as measured from the side.


Why? The same reason a longer barrel drops the db by greater than 1. Additional length gives more space for powder to burn and pressure to drop before the sound wave is free to travel in all directions.


So fake suppressors are actually real suppressors as defined by the ATF. Just poor performing ones. So it really is just up to whether the ATF decides to say that one is illegal at the moment or not.



I covered this in December:

12 Gauge
28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 _" barrel 161.50dB

10" of plain cylinder barrel remove a whopping 10 decibels.

Now consider what happens when a smaller bore barrel opens up into a wider bore chamber or "fake suppressor". The pressure drops considerably, yet the sound waves are still only directed forward.
What does this mean?
That if measured from the side you almost certainly will see some db reduction from any cylinder tube attached to the end of the barrel.
In the above example if it works even 10% as effectively as the same length of barrel would it meets the legal definition per the ATF.
Hence fake suppressors meet the ATF's legal definition of "silencer" (except when they say it doesn't.)

So a fake silencer is a real silencer. Funny how that works.

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 11, 2010, 06:09 PM
Well for one, they can increase the length of the gun or barrel to make it legal. And, they change the way a long barrel looks. There's nothing ridiculous about it. It's just having different tastes as someone else.

rm23
March 11, 2010, 06:38 PM
Here is another question. Why the functional muzzle breaks/standoff devices on shotguns?

Those muzzle breaks on shotguns really do work. A friend of mine bought one and I thought it was the dumbest thing until I shot it myself.

Justin
March 11, 2010, 07:12 PM
You mean like the tank-gun muzzle break,

If you're referring to the JP Recoil Eliminator, it's actually quite effective. A lot of Open Class 3Gun shooters run that particular model on their rifles, and it's evidently quite the thing to have.

Video here. (http://www.jprifles.com/v/v_d.php?v=recoil) The bit with the guy shooting the M16 offhand is rather impressive.

As for fake suppressors?

Curb feeler mall ninja stuff.

DFW1911
March 11, 2010, 08:11 PM
Tacticool :D

mgregg85
March 11, 2010, 09:20 PM
Those fake suppressors make the MySpace mall ninja photos look way cooler.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/Donr101395/tacticality.jpg

Anyone who dresses up like that and then takes pictures of themselves deserves a beating for being so damn lame.

Hatterasguy
March 11, 2010, 09:31 PM
I think the look good on say GSG5's or P90's with the lame long barrels.

Its the cheapest way to get a neat looking gun without going through the SBR crap.

Zach S
March 12, 2010, 08:25 AM
I think the look good on say GSG5's or P90's with the lame long barrels. Its more of a lesser evil thing for me.

I took the fake can of my GSG5 because it looked so goofy, to me anyway, since I knew it was fake. Then I quickly realized it looks even goofier with that pencil bbl, so I put the less goofy fake can back on.

Doggy Daddy
March 12, 2010, 09:02 AM
Would a fake can serve as a good starting point for building your own suppressor? After you pay the tax, of course.

DD

Dravur
March 12, 2010, 09:08 AM
Fake suppressors are very important and I shall cite several reasons...

They can be used like a flash suppressor....

They are useful in getting to 16" on a short barreled gun...

They can bring out your inner Mall Ninja..


BWAHAHAHAHA sorry, can't keep writing this with a straight face :)

Actually, the one thing they MIGHT be good for is to start a build. You might actually be able to do that.

I know that Justin has them on all his guns.

Zach S
March 12, 2010, 09:23 AM
Would a fake can serve as a good starting point for building your own suppressor? After you pay the tax, of course.Nope. Most are solid. The one on my GSG5 isn't, but its only about .025" thick (if that, I've only eyeballed it) so wont hold up to any heat, nor is it strong enough to support baffles.

If you have a lathe at your disposal, you could probably drill a fake can's ID for baffles you can make on that same lathe, then thread it for end caps, but it would be easier to start off with some tubing. Probably cheaper as well, if you account for the cost of tooling.

I know that one member here, possibly more, has made several form 1 cans, and having done it, could probably offer better insight than someone who worked in a machine shop about ten years ago...

rcmodel
March 12, 2010, 05:41 PM
If you're referring to the JP Recoil EliminatorNo, I am quite aware JP's comp works just fine on a .223.

What I was talking about is those stupid things Mossberg in putting on the Road Blocker & Rolling Thunder models.

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/50591.jpg

http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/50665.jpg

rc

1KPerDay
March 12, 2010, 05:57 PM
Those are an entirely separate category of fugly/retarded.

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 06:13 PM
Those are an entirely separate category of fugly/retarded.

Adding a bipod kind of evens out the look. :eek:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day1/DSC04853.JPG

PT1911
March 12, 2010, 06:28 PM
that is just stupid!

Zoogster
March 12, 2010, 06:37 PM
What I was talking about is those stupid things Mossberg in putting on the Road Blocker & Rolling Thunder models.

They do appear to work in reducing recoil and muzzle climb. Of course they also make the gun much louder to the user.
While adding forward muzzle weight and looking ridiculous.

Porting and various muzzle breaks can be great in daylight while wearing hearing protection.
Which can make them great for competitions within those conditions.


In something like low light conditions (at night) without hearing protection they are much more likely to make you blind and deaf in the short term.
The flash ported or directed out the top or to the sides blinds you far more than regular muzzle flash going forward.
The sound waves and muzzle blast also are directed more towards the shooter or directly to the sides to reflect off walls.
(This can also kick up a lot more dirt and debris outdoors in the prone position. Which creates additional dust making follow up shots harder, is much more visible to others, and saturates the shooter in dust.)

So the added benefits are less than the additional problems created in many potential situations. Especially those of self defense.



As far as fake suppressors.
Many grown men in nations where they have banned and severely restricted firearms pay large sums of money for high quality metal replicas, airsoft, or fake/demilled firearms. Some people even collect replicas or demilled firearms as a hobby which do not function!
The ultra realistic airsoft don't do anything better than those which look like a toy, but there is much greater demand.
If someone wants a fake suppressor on an actual operational firearm I do not see it any differently. They are paying for an additional detail for cosmetic purposes. Which they are free to do if it makes them happier.

oldfool
March 12, 2010, 06:39 PM
why cowboy hats and cowboy boots ?
nine out of 10 folks into CAS ain't cowboys
even I have a couple of cowboy hats
(just don't like the boots)
haven't been on a horse in ~45 years, and the horse didn't much like it then :uhoh:

1KPerDay
March 12, 2010, 06:54 PM
Adding a bipod kind of evens out the look. :eek:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day1/DSC04853.JPG
ROFL I can just see some doofus shooting that thing prone, lining up the rear of the receiver with his cheekbone... :D

Sam1911
March 12, 2010, 06:58 PM
I'd like to see one with a Nightforce scope and a dope card taped to it. Wonder how many degrees you'd need to mill into the mount to make a hit at 1,000 yards? :scrutiny:

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