I'm lovin' this super companion


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MCgunner
March 12, 2010, 08:45 AM
I had to admit my wife into the hospital. She's having problems and I THINK it's a severe reaction to a drug she was prescribed for a pre-cancerous female problem she'd been having. Gynecologist prescribed it, but that's off the topic. Anyway, hospitals are no gun zones here in Texas and I don't like going through dark parking lots in high crime areas (Sugar Land, Texas) especially unarmed. So, I've loaded up the super companion with 2 grains B'eye and 30 grain conicals for the primary back up pocket (strong side) and my .22LR NAA in the weak side pocket. I take the 9mm off the belt when I get there and lock it in the car out of sight. So, I got this thing, worked out the loads at the range with the chrongraph, and have already had have already pressed it into service. The little gun is smaller than my already small .380, invisible in a pocket by any measure. It is very close to .32ACP in ballistics pushing a lighter bullet, 30 grains, but it exceeds 1200 fps. That exceeds the .22 magnum from the same gun, slightly. It fills a niche for me.

But, I was thinkin', I'm going to get at least one extra cylinder for it. They're only 40 bucks. This will allow faster reloads (think pale rider) even than the cartridge gun. This may be one instance where the cap and ball is actually BETTER than the cartridge gun! I won't often carry this gun as a primary, but as you can see above, there are times. It does make a great very easily concealed back up, too. This gun has turned out to be everything I wanted of it. I'd prefer I didn't have to use such a funky sight picture with it (shoots way low and a bit left), but that's okay, I can hit with it quite well out to 15 yards. Turns out, this little gun that most think is just a cute toy has real world usefulness. I'd suspected that before I got it, but now I'm happy to report I wasn't wrong. :D

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azyogi
March 12, 2010, 09:39 PM
Got this gold tone companion 15 years ago didn't like the pearlite grips it came with. The picture doesn't do it justice grip frame backstrap and barrel are all gold plated. The flint primer it resting on was cut down to throw 1.8 grns. bsye

BHP FAN
March 12, 2010, 10:50 PM
I use Triple Seven in mine,but I got the spare cylinder as soon as I got the gun. you can roll in a new cylinder in the time it takes to load a single round. these may be ''mouseguns'', but they are NOT toys! Cool lil' guys...

madcratebuilder
March 13, 2010, 07:04 AM
I sorta recall reading about a smokeless load for these, anyone else?

These are the smallest carry gun I have used. My Colt vest pocket is small and my Walther model 9 is even smaller but they are near twice the size of the NAA.

BHP FAN, you use a dipper full of T7? I'll have to try that load.

Tiny little thing ain't it.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/naa2201.jpg

MCgunner
March 13, 2010, 09:03 AM
Man, that gold one is pimpy sharp! :D I LIKE it!

I put mine in a holster grip, gives me a full size grip on the gun, but folds for pocket storage.

I hadn't ordered a spare cylinder 'cause I wasn't sure it'd do what I was hopin' it would do....but it did. I'm going to order one soon and probably a few more hundred rounds of bullets from NAA.

I wasn't impressed with 777, chronographed around 400 fps. Pyrodex pushes over 700. 777 seems to be a bit slow burn for the gun, lots of bang as it burns outside the barrel, but not much push. 777 works fantastic in my ROA, but not in the super companion. B'eye, I'm getting around 1200 which is about what the same barrel length (inch and 5/8ths) pushes in the .22 mag variant with the 30 grain V Max CCI according to NAA's chronograph results on their site, something short of 1200. Yep, it ain't no toy by a long shot. It is a serious deep concealment and back up gun.

MCgunner
March 13, 2010, 09:16 AM
BTW, I like that flint primer idea. Might have to find one of those, Dixie gun works or something. :D I made a 2 grain scoop from a cut down 22LR case. A full length .22 short case throws 1.8 grains.

azyogi
March 13, 2010, 05:11 PM
In the super companion does anyone use a filler when loading less than 2 or 3 grns of whatever to bring charge to the shoulder [of the cylinder], if so what?

MCgunner
March 13, 2010, 05:58 PM
Certainly not necessary with bullseye, but BP might be an issue. The scoop doesn't fill to compression or anywhere close. It would help the 777, I bet, though I didn't try it. Experimenting seemed so show the 777 needed a bit of compression as we discussed on another thread. Hodgdon recommends light compression. A filler could help.

Clermont
March 13, 2010, 08:33 PM
I have a set, with matching serial numbers, of Limited Edition of 3,000 North American Arms Mini and Super Companion revolvers with gold tone finish and pearlite grips that were a special run produced for the Edge Company of Brattleboro, Vermont.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo11/Clermontny/NorthAmericanArms.jpg
I was recently informed that Daisy Heddon VL .22 caseless ammunition can be loaded and fired in the Freedom Arms or North American Arms percussion mini revolver using the #11 percussion cap. The powder is solid, not granular, and is attached to the bullet making for convenient loading into either cap & ball revolver. This cartridge was developed in the 1960s for certain Daisy Heddon rifles, has .22 LR ballistics, and used a puff of high pressure air to ignite the round. Although the rifle was discontinued many years ago, many millions of rounds of this caseless ammunition was produced and is still available at reasonable cost. Has anyone heard of, or know of anyone, using Daisy Heddon VL .22 caseless ammunition in either the Freedom Arms or North American Arms cap & ball mini revolver?

hogshead
March 13, 2010, 08:45 PM
I dont kow about reasonable cost I think the ammo is more collectable than the guns are.

Vermonter
March 14, 2010, 12:37 PM
I thought I heard the NAA Companion had been discontinued. True?

andrewstorm
March 14, 2010, 12:57 PM
2 gr bulls eye ,is that the same as 3 cc scoops that come with the pistol, measure by volume? I know that the atf stoped n a a from advertizing smokeless or they would re classify the little runt. and no companions are not discontinued ur thinkin of dick casull freedom arms co. that sold the rights to n a a .

MCgunner
March 14, 2010, 06:06 PM
The scoop measures 2.4 grains by weight bullseye. I'm tossing these home made scoops (from .22 cases) onto an electronic scale for weighing. I've fired a NAA supplied scoop full just to see what it'd do, but I didn't have the chronograph with me. Saw no immediate leading of the bore and didn't feel much different than 2.0 grains. I plan to chronograph a 2.4 grain charge, but it might be fast enough to lead the bore. It certainly didn't harm the gun in any way that I could tell. Nipples unscrewed with ease and caps were in tact and would not fall out when the cylinder was removed. What I did notice when playing with my 1.0 grain scoop is that it actually holds about 1.1 grains, so my initial chronographing with it with "2 grains" was that scoop x 2. I was actually dumping 2.2 grains for those 1200 fps velocities. My 2.0 grain scoop holds an actual 2.0 grains and velocities fell about 50 fps with it. THEREFORE, I don't think using the yellow .3cc scoop will hurt with Bullseye, but I'd watch for leading because velocity is getting up there and those little 30 grain bullets are of soft lead.

Now, this is for the SUPER companion. I don't think the scoop supplied with the Companion holds as much, not sure what CC it is. Again, this is not grain equivalent by volume, but actual weight of Bullseye that I was measuring as a reference for working up to what I finally did.

andrewstorm
March 14, 2010, 10:50 PM
Thanx for the info,if u look at the n.a.a. scoops they are both 3 cc for lr and 22 mag companion,on the website they have the same part #,MI LOAD OF AS MUCH 777 AS I CAN FIT & 30 gr boolit penatrated 75%of a new phone book.could u use blls eye in a R.O.A?

Geno
March 14, 2010, 11:32 PM
MCgunner:

Sorry to hear about your wife's complications. I understand what you mean about these stupid firearms-free zones. But do they provide armed escorts to the car for us?! Hades no!

I went to my neurologist last week and forgot my pistol safe's key. Well, it's a doctor's office, not a hospital, so I was okay...'til they asked me to remove my shirt. I just showed them my MCPL first. They didn't have a problem with it. Why would a hospital be any worse?! It isn't but it is stupid. Sorry rant off.

Again, best to your wife. I'll keep you folks in my prayers.

Geno

BHP FAN
March 14, 2010, 11:46 PM
I had heard the Magnum Companion is still in production, while the ''LR'' BP revolver has been discontinued. I just use the scoop that came with it,with Triple Seven and those neat little spire point bullets from Cabelas.

MCgunner
March 15, 2010, 09:25 AM
.could u use blls eye in a R.O.A?

Absolutely NOT. Man, if you filled it up, you're talkin' 40 grains equivalent! Kaboom and there goes your arm. Do you fill a .44 mag case full of bullseye? Nope. I load 2.7 grains in .38 brass with wadcutters and worry about double charges. 5 grains would likely cause problems in a K frame revolver.

To my knowledge, these little guns are the only ones ever recommended for any form of smokeless powder and that's because they're strong and don't hold much in the first place. Do not put any sort of smokeless in a NORMAL black powder, IOW any black powder gun other than the NAAs, not even the immensely strong ROA. The ROA and all other BPs simply hold too much powder to be anywhere near safe with any smokeless powder. From what I'm seeing with the NAAs. Even with the NAA, I think it MIGHT hold enough if you filled a cylinder to damage the gun with bullseye. I'm not sure and I'm not going to find out. I was very careful working up to a full scoop chronographing several incremental loads so that I knew what was going on via the velocities I was getting. I don't have a strain gauge (measures pressure) so I'm still sort of blind as to pressure, but if velocities go crazy, if you're getting 1500 fps, you know it ain't right. :D The chronograph helps. I don't think I wanna go much beyond 1200 fps with the gun and that's a little hotter than .22 mag in the magnum version, so I'm thinkin' pressure is getting up there. Someone here suggested the threads would begin to warp on the nipples if it was exceeding things, the weak point, which is probably true. So far, no problems there. 2 grains seems quite safe and gives .22 mag ballistics, so I don't think going any hotter is necessary or prudent.

Geno, thanks. Yeah, it peeves me all these no carry zones, but I ain't gonna be a victim. I carried when carry of any kind or form was illegal in this state. Better to be judged by 12.....as the saying goes. Back then, my carry was a cheap .25ACP. It always went bang, not that I could hit anything past 10 feet with it. But, it saved me against a mugger armed with a knife once, just by being there. The guy wanted no part of a gun fight. The super companion has more bite than a .25 if I do have to shoot, though I know it's no replacement for a 9mm, but you have to do what you have to do with all these laws. And, out to 15 yards, I can hit with it. That .25 was kinda worthless past 15 feet.

Yeah, they called me night before last, said they had to do a tracheotomy, told me she was critical. I drove up there, stayed the night catching some sleep in a chair. I'm getting ready to run up there again today. Have to be home tomorrow to work, then it's back up there.

BTW, NAA still advertises and I could have ordered the .22LR frame Companion. I don't think it is out of production unless the decision is very recent. I just wanted the larger gun to give me options with 777 and such and I got it used right here on this site, anyway.:D I am going to get around to trying to fill the cylinders with 777 to slight compression. That should help 777 as they recommend 10 percent compressed loads in the literature I've been able to find on the stuff. I might be able to get the gun up over 1000 fps with it in that case. Be interesting to find out, at least. I know the stuff works well in my ROA and a compressed load in my .31 produced 900 fps with a 60 grain conical. A normal non-compressed, but filled to the bottom of the bullet load (.7 scoop) produced 700 fps. So compression seems to help 777, though I gotta say that 900 fps load in the .31 was over 10 percent compressed, so I've backed off that load for that gun. 700 fps in the .31 is acceptable to me. If I had to use it for self defense, I might carry a compressed load, but all I do with it is practice. Too, it's a brass reproduction of the Remington and not all that strong.

BHP FAN
March 15, 2010, 03:55 PM
prayers up for McGunner and his family...maybe you could get some time off? Sleep caught in a chair in a stressful situation doesn't really count.
I don't know whether NAA discontinued the LR sized frame, just that the last Cabelas catalog I looked at didn't have the small one.That's OK,I have big paws,and the side blast from the smaller frame gun's cylinders cuts my fingers up.the magnum cylinder is much better.

black_powder_Rob
March 15, 2010, 04:52 PM
let me start by saying you and your family are in my prayers.

I thought about getting the super companion once but decided that my Taurus 905 was enough gun for me to carry in most situations and i really don't go to hospitals all that often.

By the way the crime in Sugar Land is still nothing like it is in North Houston, or even Alief. I know the mayor of SL was robbed in his drive way, but Fort Bend County has far fewer problems than Harris County.

MCgunner
March 15, 2010, 08:52 PM
By the way the crime in Sugar Land is still nothing like it is in North Houston, or even Alief. I know the mayor of SL was robbed in his drive way, but Fort Bend County has far fewer problems than Harris County.

Yeah, well, for a country boy from Port Lavaca, it just seems too crowded. :D There's lots of money in that area and lots of break ins and such. I know around SW Houston, Richmond Ave. area, just outside the loop is about the leader in the area for violent crime rates. But, heck, could be worse, could be in Brownsville or El Paso waiting for the narcos to attack across the river. I'd want my SKS walkin' around down there. :rolleyes: At any rate, I want to be armed 24/7 when I go there. Hell, I'm armed 24/7 HERE. :D

They had a Taurus PT738 TCP at the Academy around the corner. I was tempted, like that thing. But, I have an old Grendel P12 I never carry that's the same size except 1" thick due to its 11 round double stack magazine. I never carry it because if I can carry that, I can carry my Kel Tec P11. The super companion is weaker, but it's near .32ACP in energy and significantly smaller and lighter. It's the logical next step below my P11. Everyone raves about how compact the LCPs/TCPs are, but they're not THAT much smaller than the slim 9mms out there like the 709 or the PF9 and not really any easier to carry than my P11 or Grendel. I know the little P32 is smaller slightly than the .380s.

Ah, you could beat yourself up over size vs power, but I just don't feel I need a pocket .380 what with the fact I hardly ever carry the Grendel and I do have it if needed. I mean, if I need smaller than the 9, I need SMALL, not a little smaller. :D Yeah, fortunately, it has been rarely needed, but you can never have too many options in carry guns. Previously, I fell back on my NAA .22LR when I needed uber small, but the super companion has more zing. I'm saving milk bottles and if I can ever get back to the range, want to test penetration between the .22 and the super companion. At 1200 fps I'm betting on the super companion. The .22 shoots a 38 grain bullet at 800 fps.

The wife's breathing and her heart is functioning well enough, now. Doc just called me. He's there now. I didn't wanna wait around all night on him, came on home as I have to work tomorrow. They called and said I could have off, but if I don't work, I don't get paid. What we're waiting on now is the EEG they were doing when I got there this morning. The doc said he'd call me with the results. I'm praying she has no brain damage. I think she's just in a coma she'll come out of, hope. The brain has ways of protecting itself. She does open her eyes now and then, but today all she seemed to do is stare a blank stare. Yesterday, she was showing some cognizance and reacted to me. We'll just see, I guess.

Erich
March 16, 2010, 09:21 AM
Prayers for you and your wife. And thanks for a fascinating thread.

madd trapper
March 16, 2010, 06:41 PM
I have the companion and super companion. Did some testing with black powder , bullse and 30 grn bullet with the companion today . Targets were at 6 ft. one scoop of Black powder @ 6 ft phone book :bullet penetrated 3 pages .Here is a pleasant surprise ,with Bullse 1.0 grns measured on powder scale ,30 grn bullet , penetration on phone book over seven hundred pages. Also I shot at a 1/2 inch plywood with 1 grn bullse, bullet went clean thru like a 22 rimfire.Finding the bullets in the book were deform but rifling was on the bullets.The companion with the bullse loads is not a toy but a deadly firearm.

MCgunner
March 16, 2010, 08:46 PM
Targets were at 6 ft. one scoop of Black powder @ 6 ft phone book :bullet penetrated 3 pages

3 pages? Gotta be a typo or you're trying to be funny. I'll admit I'm not real quick. I got 700 fps with pyrodex. That ought to make it through more'n 3 pages. :D But, yeah, I know bullseye beats BP or substitutes hands down.

madd trapper
March 16, 2010, 09:16 PM
MCgunner, No typo . I was using the companion model which is = to a 22 LR. But the bullseye beats BP / substitutes everytime.I also shot at the plywood with the companion loaded with Black Powder and the bullet would not penetrate , it bounced off.No joke. But then when I loaded the companion with 1 grn bullseye it shot right thru 1/2 plywood like a 22 rimfire.Next couple of days I'm going to try the super companion loaded with bullseye .

RyanM
March 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
3 pages sounds correct to me. I had a bullet from my Super Companion bounce off the wooden target frame and hit my range bag, once, when using BP. I found the bullet on the ground, dented about as badly as if I had shot it with a slingshot.

MCgunner
March 16, 2010, 11:40 PM
Wow, that's pathetic. LOL!

In the super companion, again, I'm shooting 2 grains B'Eye. One grain, IIRC, gave me about 800 fps which is a little lighter than my .22LR cartridge NAA, considering the .22 is shooting a 38 grain bullet at about the same velocity. Of course, there's more space in the cylinder. 1 grain should be hotter in the companion I'd think due to the reduced volume of a cylinder.

NG VI
March 17, 2010, 01:44 AM
Nice, I've been looking at those a bit, seem like a fun way to turn some money into bang and smoke, plus little holes in things, glad to know they work well.

Not pumped about your wife though, it's good that she's all stable and everything, but I hope the situation gets a good, long-term resolution very soon. Get that condition sorted out and eat less salt after I suppose. I love salt though.

andrewstorm
March 17, 2010, 11:55 AM
I have found a way to get more velocity,pour a scoop of 777 4f into cyliinder,pack with a wooden dowel,or allen wrench add another half scoop,you now have 7.5 grain load,and should still be able to seat the bullet my load penatrated 75% of detroit phone book ,when I first tried just one scoop 777the bullet bounced off a toilet seat,and hit me in the leg,didnt hurt ,{he sent his word and healed them}the holy bible [the horse is readied for battle but safty is in the lord]he is my high tower my deliverer ,in whom i trust]JESUS

batjka
March 17, 2010, 12:55 PM
MCgunner,

Sorry to hear about your wife, hope she recovers fine.

So you're setting up for penetration tests for the LR mini and the Super Companion? I can't wait to see the results! Please include the .31 Remington in your tests as well, it should be an interesting experience.

As far as the gallon jugs, maybe you can swing by a local school. I'm sure they throw away a bunch of them every day. This way you don't have to drink gallons upon gallons of milk, as good as it may be for you. Also, a gallon jug of water is about $1 in a store, if you want to spend money.

RiverRat9533
March 30, 2010, 05:53 PM
My thought on this is when it comes to loading bullseye, the companion and super companion are pretty much equal. The companion will hold one of the supplied yellow scoops, which is about max for either gun in smokeless.
When I bought my companion, I was planning on only shooting it using bullseye, so saw no reason to get the super companion. However, anyone wanting to shoot using bp, its worth getting the super companion for this purpose, as the companion is more deadly thrown at the badguy than it is loaded with bp!

batjka
March 31, 2010, 08:15 PM
Well, if you've read the posts above, Super Companion can be loaded with 2 grains of Bullseye, bringing velocities above a cartridge Magnum Mini. So they are not equal with LR Companion.

MCgunner, any updates?

robhof
March 31, 2010, 09:37 PM
Tried the B..eye in my Mag Companion; WOW that is exciting, a whole nother experience. Set a target 1' by 1' at 10 ft and couldn't hit it, but alot of bang and actual felt recoil. I ended up with a 1.9gr load after cutting down a 22lr, but it throws consistent so I'll keep it, now I gotta get a larger target to see where it's hitting. I had it figured out with the 4f b/p, but it's nowhere near that spot now. I've had my Companion for over 6 years and shot it rarely, now I gott get more powder too and maybe some more bullets, and a holster...oh will it never stop...

RiverRat9533
April 1, 2010, 09:44 AM
"The scoop measures 2.4 grains by weight bullseye. I'm tossing these home made scoops (from .22 cases) onto an electronic scale for weighing. I've fired a NAA supplied scoop full just to see what it'd do, but I didn't have the chronograph with me. Saw no immediate leading of the bore and didn't feel much different than 2.0 grains. I plan to chronograph a 2.4 grain charge, but it might be fast enough to lead the bore"

MCGUNNER's Post


Same scoop for both guns. The companion holds a little more than a scoop. Just because the cylinder in bigger on the SUPER doesn't make a difference in how much you can load when it comes to bullseye. One of the supplied yellow scoops is about max for either gun. Sure, you CAN put more in the Super Companion, if you no longer need your fingers.

MCgunner
April 1, 2010, 10:18 AM
Well, if you've read the posts above, Super Companion can be loaded with 2 grains of Bullseye, bringing velocities above a cartridge Magnum Mini. So they are not equal with LR Companion.

MCgunner, any updates?

No, not yet. I have the bottles, just haven't had the time what with running to Houston to check on the wife. She's still in a coma and I don't know if she'll ever wake out of it. They've installed a feeding tube to her stomach and a tracheotomy so she can breath unrestricted. Her body functions are normal, but she has some brain damage caused by the lack of O2 to her brain during the attack. As you can imagine, I've had other things on my mind. I'd be headed up there today, but I have a runny nose and a bit of a sore throat this morning. I think it might be from mowing and stirring up the pollen, yesterday, but I don't want to run the risk of giving her a bug in her condition. It should be soon, now, that we can transfer her down here to a nursing home which is 1 mile from the house. I'll be able to sit with her every day for a while and won't eat into my time. She could wake up any time. The docs haven't ruled it out. They're a bit pessimistic, but I"m an optimist.

Anyway, I'll get around to it. Yeah, I might have been okay with the companion, but I wanted the super companion as I didn't know what to expect and was thinkin' 777 might be the juice I needed at the time. I wound up using B'eye to wake the thing up. Besides, I got the gun used from Mr. George at a good price and helped him unload it to me. :D I was going to get the super companion anyway, though, so that I had options with BP substitutes.

I really don't think this gun will "frag" in my hand with any B'eye load. I'm not willing to find out, though. It won't do it any good to overload it and IMHO, if I push much more velocity, it's only going to lead to leading. I got what I wanted out of it by 2.0 grains B'eye, so that's what I'm loading it with. Gives me a safety cushion, too, which don't hurt.

Anyway, I bought a spare cylinder for it for a reload, too. I'm hooked on this thing at this point as a big improvement over my .22LR mini for a tiny gun if I have to rely on the thing as a primary. Fortunately, that doesn' happen often. I can normally pocket carry a bigger caliber/gun. But, when I need the thing, it will work better than the .22LR and has slightly superior ballistics to the .22 mag models and actually will reload FASTER. :D It's one of the few times I think I can say that the BP version is better than the cartridge version of the gun for the job of self defense.

I still haven't tried to load 777 with some compression. I bet it'd wake up with that, too. I know a scoop full wan't near compression and I got a paultry 400 fps out of it. Probably bounce off the paper at that level. :rolleyes: I'm thinkin' 777 needs some compression and that's what I seem to find researching the stuff, too, though I've been told over-comprssion of it is not desired. 10 percent compression was what I've read. It sure woke up my ROA when compressing more than 10 percent, though. :D The ROA can take it. But, if I can get the super companion to shoot well with a compressed load of 777, it'll give me another alternative, though I'm pretty happy carrying the thing with B'eye at this point.

MCgunner
April 1, 2010, 10:28 AM
Tried the B..eye in my Mag Companion; WOW that is exciting, a whole nother experience. Set a target 1' by 1' at 10 ft and couldn't hit it, but alot of bang and actual felt recoil. I ended up with a 1.9gr load after cutting down a 22lr, but it throws consistent so I'll keep it, now I gotta get a larger target to see where it's hitting. I had it figured out with the 4f b/p, but it's nowhere near that spot now.

Mine shoots low and a little left. I know the sight picture I need for it. Last range trip, I backed off 40 feet and got all shots on my sight in target which is about 10"x10", about a 5" group off hand and centered a bit left of the bull, but got one in the red of the bull and one about 2" out. This was slow, aimed fire off hand. I was a bit impressed, though, getting better with it. :D I'm confident up close and dirty, I won't miss. :D

RiverRat9533
April 1, 2010, 11:06 AM
Bought a spare cylinder at the same time I purchased the companion. It does make the possibility of reloading as fast as using a speed loader in my 45 colt SW 625.
Moved to NC last November from Washington DC areaM Haven't had much of a need to carry here, but this topic motivated me to pull my companion out. Seems I left it loaded from when I was living in DC and it has been stored away since. Going to be a beautiful weekend, I think I will change out the caps and see what effect 16 months of storage has had.
Will post results

andrewstorm
April 1, 2010, 12:47 PM
Hey fellas,go to u tube,then search original 1876 victor no.1 black powder 22 cal ,4gr blk pwdr talk about old timey!:D

arcticap
April 1, 2010, 01:57 PM
Hey fellas,go to u tube,then search original 1876 victor no.1 black powder 22 cal ,4gr blk pwdr talk about old timey!

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrLOtTvSyNQ

MCgunner
April 1, 2010, 02:01 PM
Wonder where he found the ammo? Maybe Dixie sells it?

Erich
April 1, 2010, 03:39 PM
running to Houston to check on the wife. She's still in a coma and I don't know if she'll ever wake out of it

My apologies for drifting a very interesting thread, but MCGunner, know that we're praying for you and your wife.

RyanM
April 1, 2010, 04:46 PM
My apologies for drifting a very interesting thread, but MCGunner, know that we're praying for you and your wife.

Me too. Really, really hope she gets better.

(and 4 gr of BP in a .22 short must have been an extremely compressed load, like the pre-cordite .303 British)

robhof
April 1, 2010, 06:07 PM
I sure see where NAA got their design from, quite similiar, only more shots.

batjka
April 1, 2010, 08:29 PM
MCgunner, sorry for your wife. Hope she fully recovers. My prayers are with you and her.

RiverRat,
Carrying a loaded Companion in DC, huh :-)))
I have to admire you, Sir.

StrawHat
April 4, 2010, 08:12 PM
McGunner,

I keep you and your wife in my prayers.

As for the NAA, my thoughts are concealed means concealed so carry what makes YOU comfortable. For me that is a 45 ACP N frame.

andrewstorm
April 18, 2010, 10:46 AM
Mc gunner says the supplied .3cc scoop throws 2.4 grains of bullseye,Ive just read the lee charts that say it throws 2.80 grains:eek:could this be wrong ? anyhoo your suggested load was a real blast!about 2 gr equals about 2 /3rds of the supplied scoop,ignition was instantainious,dick casull is a geinuis,now if only the r o a had the same type chamber,

PawPah
May 9, 2010, 09:00 PM
anyone know of a bigger bullet? 45grains or more might make a big difference in performance!:evil:

arcticap
May 9, 2010, 09:24 PM
Why not pull some bullets from .22LR rounds since they usually weigh 40 grains instead of 30 grains?
They can be collected from misfires.
There's also .22 magnum bullets which are slightly larger in diameter by .001 and do weigh even more, but AFAIK they're all FMJ's except for Winchester Dynapoint .22 magnum which are only plated. But many Walmarts do sell them.

PawPah
May 9, 2010, 09:30 PM
by the way andrewstorm, the rec'd load is not to exceed 2.5 grains bp in the companion and 4.0grains bp in the super companion

PawPah
May 9, 2010, 10:13 PM
the scoops are different sizes for the companion and the super.

MCgunner
May 9, 2010, 10:53 PM
Mc gunner says the supplied .3cc scoop throws 2.4 grains of bullseye,Ive just read the lee charts that say it throws 2.80 grainscould this be wrong ?

I weighed it, it throws 2.4 grains, at least mine does. Lee over-states weights for their scoops on their chart that comes with the scoops. I have weighed a bunch of 'em and their claimed weights are all over actually what they throw.

I stick with 2.0 grains and my own homemade scoop, though, more'n enough pop.

Yeah, it ignites right now and gives a good muzzle flash. Pretty impressive. :D I don't think I have an insert for my bullet puller that would fit the .22 Rimfire. I don't know that I'd want to use it with a rimfire, anyway. The thought kinda scares me.

MCgunner
May 9, 2010, 11:01 PM
Wonder if this'd work?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=104009

arappmem
May 9, 2010, 11:05 PM
Its so tiny, I had a friend that carried one in his pocket. It got caught on a keychain and as he pulled the keychain it fired a round down through his thigh, barely missing his valuables and tore through his kneecap. The sucker had 22mags...nasty little bugger.

Needless to say, he learned his lesson...and started carrying in the pocket holster.

PawPah
May 9, 2010, 11:27 PM
that lyman mould might bejust the thing as long as it;s not too long:confused:

MCgunner
May 10, 2010, 09:23 AM
Needless to say, he learned his lesson...and started carrying in the pocket holster.

And, hopefully, in a pocket with nothing, but the gun in it.

that lyman mould might bejust the thing as long as it;s not too long

Well, there is quite a bit of spare room in the super companion cylinder. I think the cylinder would handle it What I was thinkin' is the rifling twist of the gun might not like such a heavy projectile. Some might think that good, but if the bullet tumbles, it'll be worthless to me. It won't penetrate and will give up any and all accuracy. I can hit rather well with the little bugger even at 15 yards. I'd like to keep that accuracy.

Another concern I'd have is ease of loading. Those little 30 grain conicals NAA sells taper at the bottom something like a heal loaded .22 bullet, allows them to easily fit in the cylinder to be pressed by the loading tool. The Lyman bullet is a gas check design, tapered at the bottom for a gas check. That might allow for easy loading just so long as it's accurate without a gas check installed. I have tried, in the past, .357 gas check bullets without the gas check and they weren't so stable. Might be worth a try, though, cause every bullet with every application is different. Heck, any time I buy a mold, I buy it knowing it might work, it might not. I've bought some bummers over the years, like a 124 grain .356 bullet that keyholes in both my 9x19s. :rolleyes: What a waste of money. You just don't know until you try it, though.

PawPah
May 10, 2010, 09:33 AM
Maybe a trashcan with identical hollows at both ends that could be loaded either way. one hollow for expansion and the other for a little extra powder charge.Make it out of a fairly hard alloy for penetration......Maybe?

RyanM
May 10, 2010, 04:21 PM
The problem with using other bullets is that the chamber of the NAA companion has a step in it. I've tried pulled .22 bullets (grip the bullet with your fingers, grip the case with padded pliers), and the heel is too thick to fit in. You can snip the heel off, though. Problem #2 is that they don't always seal the chambers, you may need to squeeze or tap the bullets a bit to bump up the diameter.

MCgunner
May 10, 2010, 08:02 PM
At .225", I don't think that Lyman mold has a problem with diameter. I've noticed that step in the cylinder, good point. And, if you clip the heal off a .22LR bullet, you're basically left with a similar bullet to the 30 grain conical that NAA sells for the purpose.

Anyway, 30 grains ain't shabby moving at 1200 + fps. It basically matches the CCI .22 mag +V load and I prefer the solid vs hollow point in the caliber for penetration.

BHP FAN
May 10, 2010, 08:26 PM
I've got 200 of the NAA bullets,or probably a lifetime supply...I'd like to try the lead round ball Cabela's sells for the 209 primer powered pistol,though.

MCgunner
May 10, 2010, 08:30 PM
Number 4 buckshot is round ball for a companion/super companion. I've not tried it, but figure 3 buck would probably work. I can cut one 20 gauge 3 buck open and have 20 rounds. :D

Clermont
May 11, 2010, 07:39 AM
...I'd like to try the lead round ball Cabela's sells for the 209 primer powered pistol,though.

The Perdersoli single shot 209 shotshell primer powered pistol, sold by Cabela's, uses .177 cal. lead balls, not .22 cal.

PawPah
May 12, 2010, 09:53 PM
I read a thread somewhere about a copper bullet someone machined out of rod. I don't recall what the specifics were but it might be a bit of overkill.:evil:

andrewstorm
May 18, 2010, 11:26 AM
The scoops are the same lee scoop as sold on the n a a site the part numbers are the same ,these pistols were designed to be used with ffffh black or 1 grain bullseye .

DammitBoy
May 18, 2010, 11:34 AM
Sorry to hear about your wife's medical issues McGunner, how is she doing?

---

On topic: Are you saying the hospital has a no gun policy, or is it a state law saying no guns are allowed?

Erich
May 21, 2010, 12:13 PM
FYI - Cabela's has the nipples for these on super sale in their bargain cave: $7.88/five.

MCgunner
May 22, 2010, 04:02 PM
Sorry to hear about your wife's medical issues McGunner, how is she doing?

She's showing some improvement, but not really cognizant of her surroundings, I don't think. I'm trying to get her medicaid eligible at the moment while not losing all my assets so as to get her into long term care. That takes some legal wrangling. Talking to lawyers sux, but it's necessary.

PawPah
May 27, 2010, 05:30 PM
WRONG the companion scoop holds 1.7cc ....the super companion holds 3cc and they are NOT the same part number:evil:

MCgunner
May 27, 2010, 09:51 PM
On topic: Are you saying the hospital has a no gun policy, or is it a state law saying no guns are allowed?

I missed that one, but it's a Texas thing. They've changed some of the no fly zones where you can't carry, but I know Hospitals were on the list and I think still are.

DammitBoy
May 27, 2010, 11:29 PM
So isn't carrying a gun in the hospital against the law?

andrewstorm
May 31, 2010, 09:13 AM
on the naa site look fer your self,they list one scoop.the lee 3cc.:neener:

MCgunner
May 31, 2010, 09:40 AM
So isn't carrying a gun in the hospital against the law?

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

DammitBoy
May 31, 2010, 12:41 PM
Better to take the high road.

MCgunner
May 31, 2010, 01:18 PM
Those .30.06 signs should be reworded...."Concealed carry not legal here. Armed robbery is safe here". :rolleyes: But, that's why I carry something ultimately undetectable in such situations.

ofitg
May 31, 2010, 09:25 PM
Wonder if this'd work?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=104009



I've been sitting here looking at a Super Companion cylinder.... as best as I can measure it, that little step is 0.41 inches back from the forward face of the cylinder.

I'm also looking at some lead bullets cast from a Lyman 225438 mould. These bullets are 0.51 inches long. They're too long for loading in the normal manner, so what if you loaded them backward? If the bullet was seated flush with the cylinder face, the bullet's ogive would stick down approximately 0.10 inch beyond that little "step". I'm thinking that you might still have room for 2.0 grains of Bullseye behind the bullet....

MCgunner
May 31, 2010, 09:47 PM
I'd probably wanna cut back on the charge, anyway, with a heavier bullet. Say 1.8 grains maybe.

Clermont
June 1, 2010, 12:57 PM
The North American Arms powder scoops for the Mini and Super Companion percussion revolvers are exactly the same except for a silver colored spacer, possibly aluminum, placed in the Mini Companion scoop to reduce volume. It may have changed but this is how the scoops were supplied when I acquired a matched set of Mini and Super Companion pistols in 1996, seen in post #9 of this thread. In the photos, the Super Companion scoop is on top and the Mini Companion scoop is on the bottom.

azyogi
June 1, 2010, 01:07 PM
The smaller scoop part # ends with CBL, the magnum part # ends with CB. Mine came with two different sized scoops, no insert.

ofitg
June 1, 2010, 01:14 PM
I'd probably wanna cut back on the charge, anyway, with a heavier bullet. Say 1.8 grains maybe.


Thanks, that sounds like good advice, especially since I'm not really certain that there's room for 2.0 grains..... I might even start with 1.5 grains....

tango2echo
June 3, 2010, 01:38 AM
Wonder if this'd work?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=104009

MCGunner, what do you think of this one? 44gr seems more practical to me and still leaves room for 2gr of Bullseye.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=538620

I'm ordering a SC thanks to you! :banghead: I can't let you have all the fun!:D Just looking for a good price.

t2e

MCgunner
June 3, 2010, 08:48 AM
:D That looks like it might work. Rather have the flat point, but not if it's too long. That bullet looks more like the one NAA sells only heavier.

ofitg
June 3, 2010, 11:07 AM
MCGunner, what do you think of this one? 44gr seems more practical to me and still leaves room for 2gr of Bullseye.



This is the Lyman 225438 mould I mentioned in post #73. Because of those little steps inside the chamber walls, it may be necessary to load the bullets backward.

If you could duplicate the energy from McGunner's load (2.0 gr Bullseye, 30 gr bullet, 1150 fps), the velocity of the 44-grainer should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 950 fps.

PawPah
June 7, 2010, 08:06 PM
what would loading backwards do to the flight characteristics/ accuracy?:confused:

ofitg
June 13, 2010, 05:10 PM
I imagine that the rifling in the Companion's barrel is intended for the 30-gr slugs; I don't know how well the rifling would stabilize the longer 44-gr slugs... if the stabilization was marginal, it might actually help to have the bullets loaded backward.

Assuming that the bullets did not keyhole in flight, it would be difficult (for me, at least) to judge the accuracy from the Companion. The sights are rudimentary, and the grip is way too small for my hand.

Theoretically, the 44-gr slugs might cause more damage inside the target... but when all is said & done, it's still just a .22, and a head shot would be the best hope for stopping a fight.

Tomahawk674
June 13, 2010, 05:58 PM
I've read in THR, from self defense story, that a gut shot is highly effective with a .22.

tango2echo
June 13, 2010, 07:13 PM
I've read in THR, from self defense story, that a gut shot is highly effective with a .22.

Yeah, in about 30-45 minutes. Sorry, but I'm aiming for a spot between the eyes.

t2e

Tomahawk674
June 21, 2010, 04:41 PM
Hi, I wanted to revive this thread; I had read here that the scoop for the NAA companion and Super companion were 1.7 and 3 CCs respectively. Sure enough I got my super companion scoop and it says 3CC. Err, 3CCs of powder is about 45 grains and 1.7 is about 25. The handles on those things must be borrowed or something. When I measured the super companion scoop it looks like it holds about 5 grains. That's 0.339 CC.

A rough guestimate when looking at the cylinder shows that it has room for about 6 grains of powder, but then again you can compress more in there.

MCgunner
June 21, 2010, 07:27 PM
I've yet to try a compressed cylinder full of 777. I need to do that. I have a whole assortment of Lee scoops. As I understand it, 777 doesn't work well if there's any air space in the cylinder. A scoop full didn't do much in the gun, can tell ya that.

Tomahawk674
June 23, 2010, 12:20 AM
Today was the first time I shot a my NAA Super Companion. It was a task to load, I kept trying to put more powder in there than it would hold. I eventually got my measure out and set it to 6 grains, which I believe is just slightly more than the scoop. It took some compressing to get the bullets seated deep enough. I made the mistake of pinching the caps, a habit from the shooting the Uberti '61 navy. That made the caps not fit well and misfire. After I tried new caps the gun worked just fine.

Observations: the 6 grains of 777 felt like it had some power to it. I say "felt", I have no actualy data. The sound was bleeping loud, I was NOT expecting that. I had some foam ear plugs but I was expecting it to do just a little "crack", and the thing went BOOM. No matter what kind of power that thing has, I think the noise would scare any threat away!

If I can get my hands on an old phone book I'll try a penetration test or something.

madcratebuilder
June 23, 2010, 06:58 AM
The North American Arms powder scoops for the Mini and Super Companion percussion revolvers are exactly the same except for a silver colored spacer, possibly aluminum, placed in the Mini Companion scoop to reduce volume. It may have changed but this is how the scoops were supplied when I acquired a matched set of Mini and Super Companion pistols in 1996, seen in post #9 of this thread. In the photos, the Super Companion scoop is on top and the Mini Companion scoop is on the bottom.
+1

I have both scoops, the only difference is the aluminum spacer in the Companion scoop.

RyanM
June 23, 2010, 05:04 PM
When I measured the super companion scoop it looks like it holds about 5 grains. That's 0.339 CC.

How did you measure it? Best way is to fill with water, then pour into the pan on a scale, and weigh the water. That's how BP is metered. 40 gr volume = the volume occupied by 40 gr mass of water.

Wait a minute, scratch what I just said. I believe the scoop for the super companion is supposed to be .3 cubic centimeter? That's equal to 4.7 gr.

Tomahawk674
June 23, 2010, 05:52 PM
I measured it by calculating the volume and then using a volume to grain conversion chart I found. Like you pointed out, turns out I DIDN"T have to measure it, I didn't see the period in front of the 3CC. :banghead:

Well, if the Super Companion scoop is ~5 grains, I'm happy I was able to cram 6 grains in there. The bullets barely fit though, they tips were dragging agains the barrel a little.

What a fun little gun.

PawPah
June 12, 2011, 08:17 PM
Anybody still experimenting with the Companion?

Busyhands94
June 13, 2011, 12:33 AM
i was today, i have been loving my LR and Magnum companions. i have made a rear sight for mine, i chamfered the cylinder, and i polished the bore nice and bright. i also filed down the front sight so it was easier to aim! i have made paper cartridges for mine, and i have even figured out how to shoot shot out of my Super Companion! one of my favorite loads is a full scoop of Triple Seven, and one of the 30 grain conical bullets they sell at NAA, only i like to cut an X on the front of the round with a razor blade. this results in a very deadly bullet that is devastation to pop cans if you fill them with water!

ElvinWarrior
June 13, 2011, 10:57 AM
Busy,

Disentegrating 22 magnum conicals???

That sounds pretty devastating to me !!!

Sincerely,

ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"

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