Guns from high profile shootings came from PD.


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fireman 9731
March 14, 2010, 02:05 PM
Here is a news article about the recent shootings at the pentagon and Las Vegas. Apparently both guns came from Memphis PD. They were guns used in crimes, taken by the PD, then sold to dealers for funds for whatever equipment they needed.

Personally I think its a great idea. Why waste tax dollars by destroying guns when you could make money by selling them? But, as usual, I'm sure the anti's will pick it up and run with it :barf:

My question is how they were "traced", sure I guess there are records of all the serial numbers and such but its still a little fishy.

I'm also a little surprised that FOX ran the story.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589192,00.html

Guns From High-Profile Shootings Had Same Origin

WASHINGTON Two guns used in high-profile shootings this year at the Pentagon and a Las Vegas courthouse both came from the same unlikely place: the police and court system of Memphis, Tenn.

Law enforcement officials told The Associated Press that both guns were once seized in criminal cases in Memphis. The officials described how the weapons made their separate ways from an evidence vault to gun dealers and to the shooters.

The use of guns that were once in police custody to attack police officers highlights a little-known divide in gun policy in the U.S.: Many cities and states destroy guns gathered in criminal probes, but others sell or trade the weapons in order to get other guns or buy police equipment.

In fact, on the day of the Pentagon shooting, March 4, the Tennessee governor signed legislation revising state law on confiscated guns. Before, law enforcement agencies in the state had the option of destroying a gun. Under the new version, agencies can only destroy a gun if it's inoperable or unsafe.

Kentucky has a similar law, but it's not clear how many other states have laws specifically designed to promote the police sale or trade of confiscated weapons.

A nationwide review by The Associated Press in December found that over the previous two years, 24 states mostly in the South and West, where gun-rights advocates are particularly strong have passed 47 new laws loosening gun restrictions. Gun rights groups are making a greater effort to pass favorable legislation in state capitals.

John Timoney, who led the Philadelphia and Miami police departments and served as New York's No. 2 police official, said he doesn't believe police departments should be putting more guns into the market.

"I just think it's unseemly for police departments to be selling guns that later turn up," he said, recalling that he had once been offered the chance to sell guns to raise money for the police budget.

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rallyhound
March 14, 2010, 02:15 PM
It's too bad that Fox seems to suggest that since the firearms in question came from the Memphis PD at some point that it made them easier to aquire for criminal use. Putting more guns on the market, so to speak.

They seem to suggest that if Memphis PD had not sold the guns that these bad guys would not have been able find any other firearms to use.

I'm guessing that the FFL who sold these guns probably had others in stock also.


Might just as well blame the manufacterer, distributor, machinest who made the receivers.
How about we blame the guy who made the steel that was eventually used in the Barrel, or the ammunition supplier.

searcher451
March 14, 2010, 02:23 PM
Fireman: I'm curious as to why you were surprised that Fox ran this story. It seems to imply -- please correct me if I'm mistaken -- that that Fox should have somehow skipped this story instead, if in fact you think that this is (or is not) a story at all. Just curious. Thanks.

fireman 9731
March 14, 2010, 02:32 PM
Fox is usually fairly pro-gun. At least less anti than all the other news outlets.

HunterBear71
March 14, 2010, 02:34 PM
Fox should run the story if they consider it news. The story implies that if the Memphis police department had a policy of destroying seized weapans, these criminal acts would possibly have been averted. Of course, this is just silly. One sentence in the article listing the percentage of guns sold last year that were police impounds would have mitigated the apparant bias. The story makes an issue out of a tragic coincidence.

wishin
March 14, 2010, 02:39 PM
What does it matter where the guns came from? Could have been from the factory, a straw purchase, a burglery, etc. (or even a gun show. :eek:)

As I understand it, police departments all over "recycle" or trade their service handguns as well. It's only good business to recover as much of the investment as possible.

John Timoney, who led the Philadelphia and Miami police departments and served as New York's No. 2 police official, said he doesn't believe police departments should be putting more guns into the market.

Now this guy needs to join the Brady campaign.

Bubba613
March 14, 2010, 02:39 PM
I wonder where the car the guy drove came from.
I wonder where his shoes came from.

The gun was useless without someone with malicious intent pulling the trigger. The origin of the gun is immaterial.

ol' scratch
March 14, 2010, 02:47 PM
In one of the articles I read, they talked to the owner of one of the gun shops who originally sold one of the firearms. He is a former LEO. He mentioned that cars are sold that have been used to commit a crime all the time and no one has a problem.

I am not trying to say that the deaths are any less tragic, but it makes no sense to me to destroy a tool because it was used to commit a crime.

If it is the argument that the firearms should be destroyed because it was used to take another life, everyone who owns a milsurp should destroy their weapon.

Mr.Davis
March 14, 2010, 04:41 PM
I wonder where the car the guy drove came from.
I wonder where his shoes came from.

The gun was useless without someone with malicious intent pulling the trigger. The origin of the gun is immaterial.

Great point. Without a car, he wouldn't have been able to drive to attack the guards at the Pentagon.

Antis seem quite eager to restrict natural rights to they can feel safer. Maybe we should require proof of "need" to cross state lines. It would be like showing your papers in the USSR! I mean, who "needs" to drive from CA to DC anyway? :rolleyes:

Buck Snort
March 14, 2010, 05:58 PM
My response to this whole story is "So what?".

22-rimfire
March 14, 2010, 06:43 PM
Here is more or less the same article with some notable additions.

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/guns-in-pentagon-vegas-shootings-came-from-memphis-police/19398258

Rich Wyatt, a former police chief in Alma, Colo., who now operates a gun store - and who has bought weapons from police agencies - defended the practice of police selling guns.

"Maybe if they put the money they made selling the guns into training those officers better, they'd be better off," said Wyatt. "Nobody ever, ever questions selling a car that was used in a crime. I am sad that officers were shot, but I don't care where the guns came from. To say we need to chase guns is not the issue, we need to chase people."


I tend to agree with Mr. Wyatt. The article in general tries to demonize guns (a thing) and not the person committing an illegal act. It is the classic anti-gun approach which we see all the time.

In fantasy novels, things like swords or rings turn otherwise normal people into super heros. In this case, the gun must be infused with a dark lord's power to overwhelm the person holding the firearm and cause him/her to do his evil bidding. It is a fantasy that many seem to believe one way or the other.

Gouranga
March 14, 2010, 08:39 PM
While I understand this news story will be blown out of context and used to feed the anti's really, I do not get it. WHAT difference does it make if the gun was bought from a dealer who bought them from the police (all legal), Bass pro, or Chuck's guns and boots?

I mean as long as the transactions were legal what is the difference? If I legally buy a car and run down 15 nuns and 12 orphans, does it matter if it came from a used car lot or a Ford Dealership? The mentality just kills me. because it is a GUN it is special.

OcelotZ3
March 15, 2010, 07:02 PM
I mean as long as the transactions were legal what is the difference?

In our newspaper they mentioned that the final owners (who did the shootings) actually purchased their guns illegally. One was a felon and the other had mental issues which would have precluded a legal purchase. But, before that they went through legal owners.

It will be interesting to find out if the police can track the ownership back to the illegal seller.

Zoidberg523
March 15, 2010, 08:08 PM
Might just as well blame the manufacterer, distributor, machinest who made the receivers.

Dont they? :(

TexasRifleman
March 15, 2010, 08:16 PM
My response to this whole story is "So what?".

Pretty much my reaction too. A story made from a non-story. This is what passes for journalism these days.

An expanded version of this article is available from several places.

One important thing that many "media" outlets seem to be leaving out:

In both cases, the weapons first went to licensed gun dealers, but later came into the hands of men who were legally barred from possessing them: one a convicted felon; the other mentally ill.

memphisjim
March 15, 2010, 08:20 PM
my city made the high road!

middleground
March 15, 2010, 08:23 PM
NPR did an interview with Doug Jackson, who I beleive is a democratic senator from Tennasee.

I do not know Mr. Jackson's record, but he had co-sponsered a bill that required Tennasee police departments to sell confiscated guns, rather then destroy them.

He seemed very supportive of citizens right to bear arms, and stood up to what I thought was a biased show host.

He said guns can do harm, or protect people. He also said that "keeping guns off the street" was a misrepresentation. Selling guns on the street, and selling them to dealers, are very different things.

Hats off to Mr. Jackson for a good, reasonable interview.

Anyone have a link to the interview?

Anyone know more about democratic senator Jackson?

sonick808
March 15, 2010, 09:57 PM
ummmmmm, who gives a crap where they came from, as long as it wasn't from a crooked gun store (the scum of the earth) or something else illegal ?

Those confiscated guns frequently make their way to loving owners via places like summit. I'd hate to see that cease because someone wants to legislate irony.

Bubba613
March 16, 2010, 06:25 AM
NPR did an interview with Doug Jackson, who I beleive is a democratic senator from Tennasee.

I do not know Mr. Jackson's record, but he had co-sponsered a bill that required Tennasee police departments to sell confiscated guns, rather then destroy them.

He seemed very supportive of citizens right to bear arms, and stood up to what I thought was a biased show host.

He said guns can do harm, or protect people. He also said that "keeping guns off the street" was a misrepresentation. Selling guns on the street, and selling them to dealers, are very different things.

Hats off to Mr. Jackson for a good, reasonable interview.

Anyone have a link to the interview?

Anyone know more about democratic senator Jackson?
Doug Jackson is the state senator from Dickson, just west of Nashville. When handgun carry was first being debated he was very opposed. After the program had been in place for a while he went to one of the lobbyisits and said, I was wrong. Everything I predicted didn't happen.
SInce then he has been one of the most pro gun advocates in the legislature, sponsoring the bill to allow permit holders to carry in restaurants that sell alcohol, among other measures.
He has ambitions to be governor. And I hear he is one heck of a skeet shooter.

Old Shooter
March 16, 2010, 09:05 AM
It will be interesting to find out if the police can track the ownership back to the illegal seller.

Therein lies part of the problem. When does a "legal owner" become a "illegal seller"? If I sell a gun ftf at a gun show, flea market, yard sale, penny-saver ad, whatever and the buyer is one of the "prohibited" persons unknown to me, did I just make an "illegal sale"?

What, if any, legal consequences might I face?

Bubba613
March 16, 2010, 11:41 AM
You would have to have known or had reasonable suspicion the buyer was prohibited.

TexasRifleman
March 16, 2010, 12:01 PM
If I sell a gun ftf at a gun show, flea market, yard sale, penny-saver ad, whatever and the buyer is one of the "prohibited" persons unknown to me, did I just make an "illegal sale"?

What, if any, legal consequences might I face?

No, but the buyer made an illegal purchase. As mentioned, as long as you have no reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person the sale would be legal.

The blame is on the criminal, as it should be.

Officers'Wife
March 16, 2010, 01:15 PM
Hmmm,

I wonder what would happen if the cow manure used to fertilize illegal drugs was traced back to my brother's dairy herd?

middleground
March 17, 2010, 12:40 PM
Thanks for the into Bubba613.

Doug Jackson struck me as stand up guy during that one brief interview. Glad to hear that his record/actions support that view.

It seems pretty rare that an elected official (or anyone really) would actually come out and say, "I was wrong." good for him.

AzBuckfever
March 17, 2010, 01:47 PM
This is rediculous....just like saying the cars used in multiple DUIs came from the same dealership. This is sure something to get Michael Moore's attention as he pressed to get KMart to stop selling firearms/ammunition because the ammunition used in Columbine was purchased at K-Mart. Wish people would stop being pathetic story searchers and blaming large businesses for their problems.
Blame Marlboro for lung cancer, Blame McDonalds for fat people....how about blame the stupid people who are that way because they don't take any accountability for their actions.

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