Remington 700 SPS .22-250


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joed
March 14, 2010, 08:38 PM
A friend just bought one of these and topped it off with a Leupold V3 6x20 variable scope. His first time out with factory ammo saw 2" groups. Today I took him out with some handloads that I made using H380 and Hornady 55 gr bullets. I loaded from 38.0 to 40 gr to see what would shoot better. Disappointing at best as the groups were 3". I've been loading for 30 years and this is the first time I'm stumped.

The gun shoots all over the target more like there is a bedding problem. Anyone else with an SPS? How does yours shoot?

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Geno
March 14, 2010, 09:16 PM
I would start with checking that the base/rings for the scope are properly mounted. I also would start with thoroughly cleaning the bore. It may be fouled. It should have a few break-in shots fired. My SPS Varmint .223 Rem, my SPS Tactical .308 Win and my M700 Police .308 Win all group between 0.182" to 0.75" and average at about 0.50" with military ball ammo, and cheap factory ammo. Something is not right.

Geno

joed
March 14, 2010, 09:20 PM
I cleaned that bore tonight, I guarantee the bore is not fouled. Prior to today my friend put 40 rounds of Remington 55 gr factory rounds through it to break it in. I'm going to have him check the base of the scope again. I checked the scope today, by my standards it was somewhat loose.

Geno
March 14, 2010, 09:26 PM
It should be torqued to 15 foot pounds. now, don't go doing the ol' Parma-guess on it. :D Break out some of your cheap money and get a torque wrench on that thing. <<messin' with you>> For me, 15 foot pounds always seemed a bit light. But, in my case, I use the Ken Ferrill bases, and that's what they call for, for the base and the rings.

I must say I am puzzled because the worst groups I ever fired were not using sandbags. These things usually fire quite durned well. Did he Loc-Tite them on also? If all else fails, I would try a 2nd (proven) scope. One always has to question a new scope, even Leupold.

Geno

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx63/Geno20101960/Hunting/StandardBolts.jpg

joed
March 14, 2010, 09:31 PM
I believe he had his mechanic friend do the bases and rings using a torque wrench. I doubt he used loc-tite.

He's going to recheck everything and see how it shoots this week with more factory ammo. If I still see 2" groups I'll put one of my scopes on it to see if that makes a difference. From the way I saw it shoot it has to be a bedding problem or something with the scope. There's no stringing to speak of, the bullets are everywhere.

Geno
March 14, 2010, 09:41 PM
It's especially odd that there is no set pattern.

The bases have to be Loc-Tited on (blue). I epoxy mine on, so I never have movement concerns.

Did he torque the stock before firing? I always torque mine at 40 Lbs. Some go tighter. I've never seen the need.

Have him also check to see if the barrel is free-floating when on the bench. Mine all remain free-floated even with bi-pods.

Geno

nipprdog
March 14, 2010, 09:57 PM
My SPS Varmint .223 Rem, my SPS Tactical .308 Win and my M700 Police .308 Win all group between 0.182" to 0.75" and average at about 0.50" with military ball ammo, and cheap factory ammo.

Is that a single, three shot group, or a five, 5 shot group average?

Geno
March 14, 2010, 10:43 PM
nipprdog:

I am still breaking-in the barrels. Therefore, I fire 3 shots, allow the barrel to cool and clean it. Understand too, I am using Weaver T36X, and Nightforce 5.5-22 scopes. <<That a lotta eyeball>> :D My groups are not so uncommon. I know some fellas here dislike the Remingtons of late, but I'm not having issues with mine.

If I did have any problems with my Remingtons, I would post them as fast as I posted that Winchester "Super" Grade of mine: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=505820.

This target is representative of what they are performing with run-of-the-mill ammo: http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx63/Geno20101960/100_0240.jpg

Geno

Uncle Mike
March 15, 2010, 12:45 AM
Check your action screw torque. The SPS can be, depending which stock(Vendor) it is wearing, torque sensitive. Make sure the recoil lug is against the abutment of the stock. We have seen SPS's that needed the action screw holes elongated ever so slightly as to allow the recoil lug to purchase against the stock abutment fully.

joed
March 15, 2010, 06:00 AM
Have him also check to see if the barrel is free-floating when on the bench. Mine all remain free-floated even with bi-pods.
This is what bothers me, the barrel is not free floating on the SPS. Forward on the stock are 2 tabs that touch the barrel. When I saw this I said I'd never own another Remington.

The action screws are tight. It has to be either the scope or something with the bedding in my opinion.

Afy
March 15, 2010, 11:32 AM
I have found copper to be an issue with the .22-250. I picked one up, that was supposedly patterning. A good soak with KG-12 has it shooting sub-MoA easily. However it isnt a Remington.

unit91
March 15, 2010, 12:57 PM
Well fist things first: congrats on your new rifle. Maybe I'm a zealot, but I've never touched a gun I didn't love.

I really don't see free-floating being the issue here. The good folks at sniper central took a 3/4 MOA rifle down to about 1/2 MOA by swapping out the factory stock with an HS stock. No doubt a dramatic improvement, but it was a still 3/4 MOA rifle with the factory injection stock. http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm

This sounds like (a) cheap scope rings or (b) copper fouling. You obviously have a nice setup with a 700 SPS and a Leupold. What about the rings?

I've got an SPS with the factory stock in .30-06, and I routinely get sub MOA accuracy with cheap factory ammo.

Murphys Law
March 15, 2010, 01:01 PM
I have found copper to be an issue with the .22-250. I picked one up, that was supposedly patterning. A good soak with KG-12 has it shooting sub-MoA easily. However it isnt a Remington.
Afy, could you tell me more about the KG-12, and where to get it? I'm not familiar with that brand.. Thanks

joed
March 15, 2010, 06:45 PM
I can promise there is no copper fouling in this rifle, it has only seen 60 rounds. The owner is a fanatic on cleaning the barrel, I even cleaned it with Sweets, the patches come out clean. The rings and base are Burris, the rings are the Signature series, all have been torqued and treated with loc-tite. The scope is a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20x40mm Long Range with Varmint reticle.

The owner is going to tear the scope off tonight and re-check everything. Then back to the range using Remington factory ammo. I already know he'll be showing me a shotgun pattern.

GMFWoodchuck
March 15, 2010, 07:00 PM
This may seem like a silly suggestion, but try not cleaning it so thoroughly. Just a swab here and there to get the heavy stuff out.

A gun that's been micro cleaned won't necessarily shoot any better than a dirty one.

Any try some other ammo. Maybe the winchester white box stuff to see if there's any difference. Sometimes my gun will like one load, and despise another. I know that my savage 22-250 can regularly make 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups. But with some bullets like the Barnes TSX it shoots like junk getting 2 inch groups like your buddy's.

I would check for any looseness first. You said you have done that, then try a different brand of ammo.

NCsmitty
March 15, 2010, 07:16 PM
It's one step at a time on something like this. At this point, verify that it is not the mounts or the scope, then see if the stock screws are contributing to the problem.

Then float the barrel.

I have personally NEVER seen a rifle that would not respond positively to floating the barrel, and the Remington stock is usually fairly easy to fix by grinding or rasping the two barrel pressure points that Remington uses on many of their stocks.

Be aware, floating the barrel may void the warranty if you should have to send the rifle back to Remington to rectify a poor shooting barrel.



NCsmitty

ncturkey
March 15, 2010, 08:18 PM
What is KG-12? Thanks, Mike

ncturkey
March 15, 2010, 08:19 PM
I have found copper to be an issue with the .22-250. I picked one up, that was supposedly patterning. A good soak with KG-12 has it shooting sub-MoA easily. However it isnt a Remington.
A good soak with KG-12

dls56
March 15, 2010, 08:43 PM
https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=9
I use the KG products also.

gotys
March 20, 2010, 02:05 PM
Just Bough a 700 sps varmint in 22-250. Bought the gun pretty much unseen over the net just through pictures at a price i couldnt beleive. Currently having a 700 vlss in 22-250 i was curious to see how this thing shot. well the sps was great for just Fl sized brass and Standard bullet seating depth of 2.350. With 34.8gr of IMR 4064, 50gr Hornady v-max federal brass and cci br2 i shot a .438 at 100 yards. .3 gr increments just opend the groups up. 39 grains of H380 and cci 200 primers with remington brass with a 50 grain nosler ballistic tip shot .48 at 100 yards. My vlss has not had 100 shells through it yet and i would say that the barrel is not broke in and it is not quite as accurate yet :mad:

joed
March 20, 2010, 09:33 PM
Round two of shooting the .22-250 SPS. Shooting Remington factory ammo the gun is accurate to about 1/2" to 3/4". The reloads on the other hand are 3" groups.

I switched primers to Fed BR. The bullets are Hornady 55 gr and powder is H380. The loads are 38.0 to 39.5 gr. In 30+ years of reloading I've never seen anything like this. I shot the gun today and in every instance the bullets are all over the target.

At this point I'm not sure if it's the dies, powder or bullets.

gotys
March 21, 2010, 12:38 PM
I would try a different bullet weight. I would get rid of that 55gr exspecially if the ogive is long on it, and try some 50gr- 52gr bullets. I would also let go of the H380 at this time cause it apparently does not like it. I would then Pick up some Imr 4064, or H-varget or something along those lines that have a faster burn rate. I would then check to make sure all the brass is head stamped the same,and in good usable shape. Either all full length sized or neck sized. I would check to make sure they dont need trimming, and i would not worry about the cartridge OAL until you use some fire formed brass and give them a neck size.

The only other thing i would try with that H380 is a magnum primer. H380 is hard to ignite some times and different guns prefer different things, remeber start 10% lower and work up if useing magnum primer

DIM
March 21, 2010, 01:53 PM
I have SPS in .223, as you all know REM 700 SPS is not free-floated, I modified my by glass bedding the action and 2.5" of the barrel so now its free-floated as the result I get 0.3 - 0.5 MOA with my hand-loads using Varget and IMR 4064 with 52gr SMK, also Black Hills 52 gr ammo proved to be accurate as well .6 MOA, as far as 22-250 I never owned one so can't recommend anything, I know it has 1:14 twist so you'll be lucky to stabilize 50 gr bullet, if you need bullet stabilization calculator there is one online just plug your data...

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.0.cgi

DIM
March 22, 2010, 05:34 PM
another thing you might try is to slide business card or thick paper like photo paper under the barrel just before recoil lug sometimes it helps, or get aluminum block bedded stock from Choate, B&C or HS there are many choices, but you got to get your barrel free-floated and stick to 45 - 50 grain bullets 1:14 twist is tricky with bullets heavier, try not to use boat-tails, get you barrel lapped sometimes helps like with J&B...

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