Bushings save time?


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allen4150
March 16, 2010, 01:58 AM
I'm just getting back into reloading and don't recall a bushing set up like hornady's LNL. I keep reading how it's a "set and forget" and much faster.
When I was reloading, my dies were pretty much set and forget. I know it is probably easier to put a bushing in, but screwing a die in with a set screw tightened doesn't take long either. What's the big deal? I could see if one was going to completion-one round at a time, but who does that?

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kk0g
March 16, 2010, 08:56 AM
I too see it as a solution to a non-existant problem. I suppose the reloading market will determine if it's a good idea or not by weather or not it sells.

rcmodel
March 16, 2010, 11:38 AM
My sentiments exactly.

Once you adjust a new set of dies and lock the lock-ring set-screws, thats it.

I figure it takes less then 30 seconds to change dies.
So in every reloading session, I might save half that with L&L, or 15 seconds to load 100 rounds of rifle, or 30 seconds to load 100 rounds of pistol.

Is that worth having to buy bushings for dozens of dies at $4.50 a pop?
Not for me it isn't!

rc

Walkalong
March 16, 2010, 12:29 PM
I always thought it was a solution for a non problem, and it really is as far as repeatability. As long as you screwed the dies in hand tight about the same every time, you are good to go. (Assuming you have good lock rings that don't move)

Then I decided to upgrade my Projector and picked the LNL because I liked the ergonomics of the machine. Now I had to get at least some bushings. I could just screw dies in and out of a set, but it is sooo convenient to get em for all the dies, I have ended up getting bushings for all my dies. (well, most, I need a few more) Pricey, but fast and easy. I do still screw crimp dies in and out of bushings because I have adjusted the die for the max crimp I will use, and use spacers to adjust for a different crimp, just like before. I also use some spacers on some other dies.

Bottom line is they don't make things more repeatable, but they are fast and easy.

I would not have chosen a press for that feature, but I liked the ergonomics of my Projector, and wanted to stay with that design. I thought long and hard about an RCBS Pro-2000 press as well. Either buy bushings for dies with the LNL (and I was worried I would not like using them), or all new (over a dozen) shell plates for the Pro-2000.

Still wonder if I should have tried the Pro-2000, but I am very happy with my LNL, bushings and all.

mongoose33
March 16, 2010, 12:44 PM
Well, I use 'em and they're well worth it to me.

I spent time screwing and unscrewing them on a single stage press, and I don't much care for that. Half a second and a LnL bushing is in place means while other guys are still screwing around (sorry : ), I'm already reloading.

I've found it very valuable in my LnL AP progressive, and I bought the Lee Classic Cast single stage specifically because I could convert it to use the LnL bushings.

I've got my rifle dies in LnL bushings, my Hornady cam-lock bullet puller in a bushing, a decapping die in a bushing. All my handgun dies are in LNL bushings for the progressive.

To each his own, but I find them to be a terrific addition.

ants
March 16, 2010, 12:51 PM
Related comment:

I guess I'm too old, but the term "bushing" is an insert into a sizing die to neck size my brass to a very specific OD, because I want to ream the inside to a very VERY specific ID based on my bullet diameter. Redding and Forster make excellent bushings.



So, I wonder why they chose to call this newfangled thing 'bushing'.
Didn't they know we already use the term bushing in our tool kit?
Oh well. It really isn't confusing. Just frustrating sometimes.

thorn-
March 16, 2010, 01:21 PM
I believe it's a more a matter of convenience for setup, than repeatability. It's absolutely faster than screwing in dies. It's really just similar in concept to having multiple toolheads (ie, Dillon) and leaving your dies in place ready to go.

The nice thing is that it's completely optional. The LNL comes with 5 bushings, so if you prefer to save a bit of $$ and just screw them in, you can go that route too.

thorn

Walkalong
March 16, 2010, 01:44 PM
The removable tool heads that hold all the dies is a much better idea IMHO.

"Adapter" might have been better than "bushings".

The LNL comes with 5 bushings, so if you prefer to save a bit of $$ and just screw them in, you can go that route too.Thought about epoxying them in.

thorn-
March 16, 2010, 02:01 PM
If you always wish to remove every die at once and exchange them, the toolhead is more convenient. But if you wish to only change 1 die - say, a universal decapper - then bushings are easier. Or, if you want to change 3 dies, but not the powder dispenser.

thorn

Walkalong
March 16, 2010, 02:19 PM
I am kind of stuck with my LNL now. I have modded two Redding powder measures (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=510241) to work on it, have over a dozen shell plates and a butt load of bushings. I do like the ergonomics of the press, which is why I bought the Projector so many years ago. If RCBS had made the Pro-200 back then, I would have bought it, no doubt in my mind. Still think about getting one, in the back of my mind. Never say never. Curiosity did kill the cat.

EddieNFL
March 16, 2010, 02:34 PM
I've not tried the bushings, but I enjoy the Dillon toolheads. I set them up complete with powder measures. Can't recall the last time I did anything b ut pull the pins and swap toolheads.

bush·ing   [boosh-ing] –noun

1. Electricity.
a lining for a hole, intended to insulate and protect from abrasion one or more conductors that pass through it.
2. Machinery.
a. a replaceable thin tube or sleeve, usually of bronze, mounted in a case or housing as a bearing.
b. a replaceable hardened steel tube used as a guide for various tools or parts, as a drill or valve rod.

UltimateReloader
March 16, 2010, 03:17 PM
I've used the Lee turrets, the Dillon XL-650 toolhead, the RCBS Pro 2000 toolhead, The Hornady Lock-N-Load busing system (single stage and progressive), and the traditional "screw dies down" systems.

Here are reasons I like the bushing system:
1. Emptying the powder measure is a tool-free job- takes 1 second to remove or replace powder measure. I empty the measure between setups and when I'm done for the day. I personally consider this "reason enough" for the bushing system. No chains, no rods, and powder measures don't spin off as easy as dies. The bushings are great here

2. Easy removal/replacement of the RCBS lockout die when you have a problem or powder variation

3. Shared dies: 44 mag/spl and 38spl/357mag shared sizing/deprime, etc- RCBS bullet feed die, universal decapper

4. Mix-n-match rearrangement of dies (add/remove powder check, dedicated seating dies, etc)

5. For hornady dies: Can store dies with bushings in their boxes (can't do that with toolheads) - all parts such as extra seating plugs and decapping pins are in the same place

6. I've calibrated my LNL Classic single stage and my LNL AP progressive and can swap over dies (such as universal decapper or powder measure) for setups or other procedures

Regardless of what system you buy (progressive) you'll need some sort of die head, turret, or pack of bushings for each die set IF you want the convenience of leaving them setup and ready for use.

Each system has its advantages and disadvantages. For workflow, I think the bushing system is a great advantage.

budiceman
March 16, 2010, 04:34 PM
I like the bushing set up. As others have said, it's great for quick popping off the powder measure or swapping out just one die or to use the same die on a single stage press. Example: FL die to a neck sizing die or pull powder measure to hand weigh loads. There many others I'm sure.

jmorris
March 16, 2010, 04:45 PM
I like the tool heads for changing everything at once. Set screws on preset dies are also nice. I had problems with the powder measure trying to come unlocked with the LNL bushings. Another O-ring fixed the problem but I always felt I had to keep an eye on them, maybe if they added a ball detent.

Randy1911
March 16, 2010, 04:51 PM
When I was reloading, my dies were pretty much set and forget. I know it is probably easier to put a bushing in, but screwing a die in with a set screw tightened doesn't take long either. What's the big deal? I could see if one was going to completion-one round at a time, but who does that?

That used to be the way I thought also. Then I got my LnL press. I can change out all dies that I use for a setup faster than just one die the old fashion way. Like Ultamite Reloader, I sure like the bushing way a lot better. I don't think I would like to go back to the old way.

budiceman
March 16, 2010, 04:57 PM
Yes jmorris but for some reason I have some primed and sized brass I find on occasion and instead of depriming and priming again or unscrewing the die it is easy to twist the die and I'm ready. also dink around trying different things or loads and popping out 1 die makes it easier for me. Just me but I love it!

Husker_Fan
March 16, 2010, 04:59 PM
I have a single stage Lee Challenger press that has the bushings. I think they are nice if you are loading the same bullet for your dies over and over. That is what I started doing when I first loaded only 158 swc in .38 spl.

Now I load four different bullets in .38 spl. and .357 mag. cases, all with the same set of dies. I wind up adjusting often enough that the bushings don't give me much of an advantage.

ranger335v
March 16, 2010, 07:54 PM
At what price to save how much time are the bushings?

My die sets have two to four dies. I can easily screw in-screw out dies with a locked ring in thirty-fourty seconds. How much time can possibly be "saved" in a typical loading session even if the bushing types were instantaneous? (Sies don't need nor should they be tighened with pliers or a wrench. That's not even helpful but it does slow swaps down - a lot!)

As has been said, bushings are a great solution to a problem we really don't have.

idoono
March 16, 2010, 09:04 PM
OK I am lazy and I hate doing things more than once. I reload on a Rock Chucker and have the bushings for all my various dies in several calibers. (and yes in a machinery term they are bushings) I like them because I tend to reload in batches and am constantly changing out the dies for the various processes.

idoono

BigJakeJ1s
March 16, 2010, 09:26 PM
Count me in with the flexibility afforded by Hornady LNL AP's individual bushings, compared all-in-one tool-heads on Dillon or RCBS progressives.

For a single stage press, unless it was a Forster or Hornady die (with their cross-bolt lock rings), I would either be buying a bushing or a new lock ring for each die anyway.

You can jam an upside down Lee lock-less ring up against the bushing and it will stay put. Leave the set screw out of Redding, RCBS, or Lyman lock rings (so they are not pushed off-center and tilted), and just jam them up against the bushing.

But my co-ax has 'em all beat. No bushings needed for quick, accurate, snap-in/out die changes!

Andy

mongoose33
March 17, 2010, 09:26 AM
I thought about this more, and those who have a LnL AP will recognize this, but if you didn't have the bushings, you'd find it impossible to screw in a powder measure in station 2 w/ the microjust stem without bumping into primer feed tube. You'd either have to remove the primer feed tube or mount it in another station. And with the the lockout die in station 3, the seating die in station 4, and a taper-crimp die in station 5, that doesn't work so well.

budiceman
March 17, 2010, 09:36 AM
Everyone is talking about a problem WE dont have!:confused: There is a problem! You need to change dies to reload different ammo. How much is a tool head even for a LEE?:confused: How long does it take to change them?:confused: I can change out my dies in about 6 seconds each, under 1 minute and I'm reloading .44 mag from .45s for close to the same price as a spendy Lee tool head!:neener: Dont know how long it takes for you guys to swap out your Dillons, RCBS, LEE tool heads your talking about but I'm happy with what I have. By the way I have all my bushings I need for LESS than the cost of your ONE Dillon tool head!:neener:

EddieNFL
March 17, 2010, 09:46 AM
Everyone is talking about a problem WE dont have!:confused: There is a problem! You need to change dies to reload different ammo. How much is a tool head even for a LEE?:confused: How long does it take to change them?:confused: I can change out my dies in about 6 seconds each, under 1 minute and I'm reloading .44 mag from .45s for close to the same price as a spendy Lee tool head!:neener: Dont know how long it takes for you guys to swap out your Dillons, RCBS, LEE tool heads your talking about but I'm happy with what I have. By the way I have all my bushings I need for LESS than the cost of your ONE Dillon tool head!:neener:
What's your point?

GMFWoodchuck
March 17, 2010, 05:11 PM
It doesn't matter much for the resizing dies I suppose. But repeating a specific COL while seating bullets I would imagine being a whole lot easier with the bushings. And you could tighten the lock nut onto the bushing with a wrench (no, not kill it but snugger than what you can with your hands) and know for sure you're not losing spec each time you move it.

mallc
March 17, 2010, 05:28 PM
IMHO...LNL bushings are intended to keep loaders from stripping the threads out of the aluminum bodied LNL. (I have 2 LNLs and a Dillon 650).

I load a lot of short runs of different calibers. And, I always clean and OneShot my dies before I put them back in their cases for storage. LNL bushings don't fit in die storage cases so I have to take off before I put the dies away.

So...my question for everyone who store their tooling with the bushing in place is; how do you store your dies?

Scott

Myke_Hart
March 17, 2010, 06:02 PM
The bushings fit in all my boxes. Even the round Lee boxes. Just put the dies in the holder upside down. The Lee square boxes are tight but they fit (lid doesnt close all the way). RCBS,Redding, and Lyman boxes they just fit and close properly.

So no problems with the bushings here.

I love them, and have them for all my dies.

I do a lot of short runs and also transfer the dies to my single stage rock chucker that has the conversion bushing in place.

Now the powder measure is where they really rock. Quarter twist and remove. Thats it.:o

mongoose33
March 17, 2010, 08:02 PM
So...my question for everyone who store their tooling with the bushing in place is; how do you store your dies?

I have mostly Hornady dies, and the die boxes were designed to hold the dies while wearing the bushings.

For other dies, I simply bought a few spare Hornady boxes, like so:

http://www.grafs.com/order/product/260754

Walkalong
March 17, 2010, 08:11 PM
All my die boxes except Redding work with the bushings, although I had to trim the inside die supports on some.

thorn-
March 17, 2010, 08:22 PM
I have both Hornady and RCBS dies; all fit in their boxes with bushings attached.

thorn

mallc
March 17, 2010, 08:33 PM
I MUST be having a senior moment here. Sometimes a guy just needs a bit of help. Might someone post a photo of dies in the original box with the bushings attached please. I promise to give you a big Homer DOAH! once I get my come uppin's.

Thanks Guys!
Scott

BigJakeJ1s
March 17, 2010, 08:52 PM
I'd be the last one to begrudge anyone who prefers to screw their dies in and out of the press, but that doesn't mean none of the rest of us don't like the bushings!

That's on of the great things about this hobby: more than one kind of product to do things more than one kind of way.

Andy

showmebob
March 18, 2010, 12:03 AM
I think those of us who swap dies around etc and are used to the bushing system will NEVER go back. For those who have not tried the bushing system for themselves DON'T, or you will be buying bushings.

roc1
March 18, 2010, 09:10 AM
The bushings work great on the AP press only way to go. The Classic single stage works fine but is not really necessary. The powder measure it is a big help
roc1

MetalHead
March 18, 2010, 10:58 AM
Only my RCBS press could be converted and then I would be constantly installing and removing bushings from dies to be used in other presses, half my dies are in Lee three hole turrets the other half plain. Nobody makes a handpress that takes bushings yet, that I might buy.

mongoose33
March 18, 2010, 05:36 PM
Might someone post a photo of dies in the original box with the bushings attached please.

http://clubdoctor.com/pics/diebox.jpg

And before you ask, the white foam behind the seater die is to keep it from tipping. The long micro-just stem causes it to tip. You don't have to have that, I just like it for cushioning purposes.

From left to right: seater die, Lee FCD, size/decap, and at the top is the expander die (which I don't really use much as I use the powderfunnels universal PTX on my LnL press).

mongoose33
March 18, 2010, 05:43 PM
One more advantage to the bushings--this is partly dependent upon needing to maximize space, which I want to do--is to use the Hornady Fast Load Powder Measure Stand, which accepts the LnL bushings. I have more than one powder measure, so the ability to swap fast is appreciated by me:

http://clubdoctor.com/pics/measure1.jpg

The small funnel attached to the front is for pouring powder from the red pan into a case easily.

The Stand is mounted to the board because I don't want it mounted permanently to a bench, as it gets in the way. So to keep it out of the way, I screwed a couple of screw-eyes into the edge of the board and I use that to hang it on hooks from a joist, to keep it up out of the way; the powder measure lives on a pegboard when not in use:

http://clubdoctor.com/pics/measure2.jpg

Walkalong
March 18, 2010, 06:35 PM
.38 Spl and .357 die sets (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=104879&d=1252256428) in an RCBA box. One sizer & one seater for both. Two separate expanders, & 2 crimp dies each.

I did shave off some on the die supports to get them lower in the box.

Myke_Hart
March 18, 2010, 10:36 PM
Sorry, yes pictures would help wouldn't they.

OK, I own a lot of dies but not very many manufacturers.

Here is how I do it.

Lets call it Bushings in a box.

None of the boxes have been modified, but can be if you wish.

We will start toughest to the easiest.

Redding competition seater, I store with the micrometer and spring removed to release the spring tension (over $100 die). Plus this is the only way to get it in the box without modifying it. But you could cut out the holders in the box to make it fit.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1036.jpg
Redding closed as proof it closes
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1035.jpg

Lee Box deluxe rifle
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1032.jpg
Lee Box closed (lid slightly ajar)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1028.jpg

Myke_Hart
March 18, 2010, 10:40 PM
Lee deluxe rifle round with dies upside down
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1038.jpg

Lee pistol round with dies upside down to fit
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1027.jpg

Lid on (instructions removed so you can see the dies)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1026.jpg

C&H dies just fit (nothing special)
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1034.jpg

Myke_Hart
March 18, 2010, 10:44 PM
All my dies together in a family op photo :neener:

Yes I have duplicates of dies. Some are set at different calibers.:D

I guess I could have shown the RCBS and and Lyman but that would just be bragging.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1037.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1031.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1025.jpg

mallc
March 19, 2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks Guys.

Hate to admit that the only dies I've tries to box with the bushing on were Redding. So here you go:

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT DIES NOT FITTING IN THEIR BOX WITH HORNADY BUSHINGS ATTACHED.

Scott

Walkalong
March 19, 2010, 07:49 PM
You can't put three or four with bushings in a Redding box and expect it to close. The little holes for brass that are worthless on the outside take up too much space inside.

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