Article on gun owners and video gamers


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Blakenzy
March 16, 2010, 10:32 AM
Gunners and Gamers

Last December, one of the hottest search terms on Google was for a gun, and not just any gun: an assault rifle made by arms manufacturer Bushmaster, designed specifically to become the main battle weapon for the United States military.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7299-Gunners-and-Gamers

Link to blog thread mentioned in article:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/08/call-of-duty-effect/

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KarenTOC
March 16, 2010, 11:56 AM
people looking for a combat rifle on Google so they can "pwn noobs."

I've seen "pwn" before, but couldn't figure out from context what it means. I looked it up; could only find "pwned" (which they say means "own") but I don't know if that's a variation of pwn or something totally different. And none of the explanations included what (if anything) the letters stand for.

I quit reading the article at that point, because UFAs (unidentified 'flying' acronyms) are annoying and off-putting. :confused:

Just One Shot
March 16, 2010, 12:04 PM
I believe this came about when someone was trying to type that they owned someone but they hit the P key instead of the O key (they are side by side on the keyboard after all) and it just stuck around as a joke. To say you pwn someone means that you own them is my understanding.

KarenTOC
March 16, 2010, 12:08 PM
ah, thanks!

conhntr
March 16, 2010, 12:10 PM
acr is 4 newbs only deagle is 1337 pwnage

NOLAEMT
March 16, 2010, 12:15 PM
interesting article.

I had a related experience with my younger brother recently. He is in college, and had just gotten some new video game when I came home for Christmas this year. I believe it was the game they were talking about in the article. He asked me if i wanted to play, trying to be friendly I said yes (my brother and I don't really have much of a relationship). In one of the first scenes they show a special forces operator, (army ranger i believe). at a base in Afghanistan who is playing with a desert eagle. I said something about it not being realistic, and was "informed" by my brother that SF and the Israelis all carry "fifty-cal DEAGLES".

oh well.

mec
March 16, 2010, 12:16 PM
the video game people are prime gun editors at wikipedia. Not just any game players though- the certifiably psychotic ones.

19-3Ben
March 16, 2010, 12:17 PM
only deagle is 1337 pwnage
:D:D
You pwn n00bs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olm7xC-gBMY)

ny32182
March 16, 2010, 12:21 PM
I don't believe for a second that gun placement in video games is any more of an accident than any other product placement in video games or any other media. Especially guns that don't exist yet.

Modern Warfare 2; the ACR being essentially the featured carbine... is straight up advertizing for Bushmaster. MW2, for those that don't know, was the largest entertainment media release in history. Bigger than any movie, ever... the biggest of all time. And I think they are just barely tapping the advertizement potential that exists... but the ACR was no accident in there; believe it.

gunnutery
March 16, 2010, 12:26 PM
I believe this came about when someone was trying to type that they owned someone but they hit the P key instead of the O key (they are side by side on the keyboard after all) and it just stuck around as a joke. To say you pwn someone means that you own them is my understanding.

I heard the same type story however the version I heard was that "pwned" came about through a video game typo. So instead of "owned" it was "pwned" in the video game. I don't remember what game it was supposed to be.

Anyway, back on topic, I'm not sure if the video game industry is helping RKBA or hurting it. Obviously it's creating intrest in firearms but without proper safety knowlegde and probably a lot of misinformation.

CelticArmory
March 16, 2010, 12:33 PM
I totally pwn n00bs but can't stand H4x0rz. I'm not so 1337.

Gamers have what they call Leet (1337) speak. Pwn is the present tense of pwned which is derived from owned, as in one utterly defeated another. There are plenty of articles out there about leet speak.

I think a lot of young people who get into FPS (first person shooter) games are interested in the firearms used in the game. For example in CSS (Counter Strike Source) they have a variety of pistols, sub-machine guns, assault rifles and even one big machine gun. They are loosely based on real world firearms and the names are changed, so it doesn't surprise me that gamers would be searching for the real thing.

Yes, I'm a gamer too. :eek:

conhntr
March 16, 2010, 01:24 PM
there is no such thing as h4x0rs; u just are a noob...

hso
March 16, 2010, 01:31 PM
The "product placement" idea is an interesting one. While Coke and Pepsi and Apple and GM might provide "props" and pay for placement of their products in movies and TV it really isn't a leap to think that computer/video game companies would profit from the same infusion of cash to help defray development costs.

conhntr
March 16, 2010, 01:33 PM
alot of games already do. you can be walking around and there are billboards in the background! just like RL LMAOFOWNBV

ForumSurfer
March 16, 2010, 01:43 PM
...it really isn't a leap to think that computer/video game companies would profit from the same...

It's been going on for a long time, HSO. A few online games even have billboards that rotate advertisements. Primarily it has been pc oriented advertisements, but it is diversifying.

I work in IT and I have kids...I am forced to keep up with gaming industry and trends. I'm an involved parent, so if my kid is going to play an occasional game, I want to know what's in it. I also limit their time spent playing WAY more than most parents I talk to.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:jSzWh9J7fzv36M:http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2008/03/adsingame1.jpghttp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://gamerlimit.com/files/2009/07/ingame-advertising.jpg&imgrefurl=http://gamerlimit.com/2009/07/the-history-of-in-game-advertising/&usg=__O9MbNgIypirMCCw-4UZCwovCZFY=&h=467&w=450&sz=617&hl=en&start=15&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=WQmzfdxmygL9EM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dadvertisements%2Bin%2Bvideo%2Bgames%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:I_rQ2yxJF_PJmM:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3419895883_9e3a840b31.jpghttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:imdZrc1__qLhFM:http://www.schrankmonster.de/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/ingameadvertising_9A24/IMG_7245_thumb%255B3%255D.jpghttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:WQmzfdxmygL9EM:http://gamerlimit.com/files/2009/07/ingame-advertising.jpg

ny32182
March 16, 2010, 01:44 PM
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/61298

The game grossed over a half billion dollars in the first 5 days, breaking every entertainment record.

Yeah, there is some advertizing potential in there.

conhntr
March 16, 2010, 02:00 PM
and the worst part is just a sequel; and required little developlment. modern warfare, world at war, and modern warfare 2 are all VERY similar just tweaked/different looks so they spent ALOT less than a blockbuster movie budget and made ALOT more...

9teenEleven
March 16, 2010, 02:19 PM
I suspect that this was a least partly responsible for the enormous price hike for the ACR.

dmancornell
March 16, 2010, 02:27 PM
When MW2 came out there was a small flood of new posts asking about firearms like the Kriss, Cheytac Intervention, ACR, and so forth. LOL.

I just wonder how much those gun manufacturers paid Infinity Ward for advertising.

DoubleTapDrew
March 16, 2010, 03:06 PM
Very few of the guns in those games are available to civvies anyway, but it probably does help the next generation who's parents may not be gun folks get interested in guns, especially EBRs.
They are not that realistic (though moreso these days than ever) because it's for entertainment. If you had to break down your rifle and clean it after every level it would lose a lot of fans. But I do like the call of duty series. It's good entertainment when you can't get to the range or the weather is crummy.
People who can't distinguish between a video game and real life will have problems in all aspects of life, not just gun safety. Neither guns nor video games are the problem in those instances, the person has a messed up noodle.

hso
March 16, 2010, 03:12 PM
Very few of the guns in those games are available to civvies anyway

They may not be available to civilians, but their semiauto versions are and that's more what I wonder about the marketing potential for.

Justin
March 16, 2010, 04:17 PM
Anyway, back on topic, I'm not sure if the video game industry is helping RKBA or hurting it. Obviously it's creating intrest in firearms but without proper safety knowlegde and probably a lot of misinformation.

I've long suspected that the rise in popularity of black rifles can be at least partially attributed to their use in mainstream video games.

Action_Can_Do
March 16, 2010, 04:43 PM
It doesn't really matter where the interest begins. My interest started with movies and I'm sure the same is true for many others. Video games are no better or worse than movies.

cbrgator
March 16, 2010, 05:02 PM
I saw an episode of Penn and Teller Bull****! when they found some kid who was obsessed with these types of video games. They took him to a real range to fire a real gun. He cried. I don't think he'll confuse games with reality anymore.

Maybe all children who shoot guns in video games shoot have to take a range trip so they understand the difference. Give them the opportunity to feel the power and recoil of a real gun, how loud a shot actually is, etc.

j-easy
March 16, 2010, 05:28 PM
video games definitely generate interest in guns, most gamers who are not gun owners are generally somewhat misinformed about real life guns though. I think it's a very good thing that people are becoming interested in guns via games as it's getting the younger generation interested in shooting.

ny32182
March 16, 2010, 05:29 PM
I saw that episode of Penn and Teller... I don't know if they cherry picked that kid to prove their point or what, but he was about 10-11 years old I'd say... old enough to fire a single round from an AR15 without crying like he did. :rolleyes:

But, people are smart enough to tell the difference between fantasy and reality at virtually any age, and if they are not, it doesn't matter if they play video games or not, or own guns, or not... they are going to run into major issues in life eventually.

blakeci
March 16, 2010, 05:34 PM
The more people that are interested in EBRs, the harder it will be for govt. to ban them again. So, video games do have their plus sides. Now it is up to us to turn their curiosity into a healthy respect for responsible gun ownership.

vampire847
March 16, 2010, 05:34 PM
Alright being a hardcore gamer myself I thoroughly agree 100% that video games have the accuracy in weapons information and data as blind firing a full auto 20mm aa gun backwards and blind folded... Unfortunately that is one of the number one reasons anyone is interested in shooting after all it is what got me into firearms though I went and learned about them in reality and started shooting for fun with my friends and thoroughly enjoyed gaining knowledge through valid sources! Also infinity ward actually paid the manufactures for the rights to use the weapons in the games which i find very funny! sorry for the poor grammar and any misspelled words! i left that up to Firefox spell checker!

ny32182
March 16, 2010, 05:44 PM
Also infinity ward actually paid the manufactures for the rights to use the weapons in the games which i find very funny!

Do you have a source on this? I would think it would be the other way around. Big time.

Cosmoline
March 16, 2010, 05:54 PM
I haven't done much of this since the days when BJ Blaskowitz mowed down nazis in mazes. I also remember using the rocket launcher in Doom to hop up on tall buildings, and that probably wasn't realistic ;-)

More fundamentally, though, shooting is more about relaxation than excitement. It's more like yoga than FPS gaming. I suspect video games have given a lot of people strange ideas about how firearms actually work. The only one I've seen that's halfway realistic in aiming and cycling, not to mention getting shot, is Red Orchestra. But there's no running around soaking up fifty shotgun blasts in that game, so it has limited appeal.

MagnumDweeb
March 16, 2010, 06:07 PM
Yes, someone beat me to the "Red Orchestra" post. I play it a couple times a week. As realistic as video games get. A single shot to the leg can drop you out of the game. You have to know how to actually aim a rifle, pistol, MG, or smg. Sniper Rifles are not point and click, your avatar actually breathes and moves when you are aiming so you are better able to aim with your sights when you are "rested" on something as opposed to being crouched or standing.

I'm waiting on Red Orchestra II "Heroes of Stalingrad," hopefully they'll have taken notice of all the belly aching about the absence of Molotov cocktails and flamethrowers. The only downside is there won't be any panzerfausts or panzershreks so those of us who love playing the Combat Engineers will have more run time with the 10lb satchels of high explosives.

You can keep the rest of the FPS, all I want is Red Orchestra. Plus there is a mod to play as GIs and British so you can shoot BARs, .30 cals, etc..

DammitBoy
March 16, 2010, 06:13 PM
I'm pleased that the article itself was pretty favorable towards responsible gun owners.

ny32182
March 16, 2010, 06:23 PM
Modern Warfare 2 and MetalGear Solid 4 have the best weapon modeling of games I've played. Not perfect, but nothing is.

Dimis
March 16, 2010, 07:08 PM
as a long time gamer i can say in my own experiences with video games most of them are unrealistic in some aspect or another
there are no true shooting simulators just as there are no true driving or flying sims
they come close sometimes but there is ALWAYS something off and usualy its for ease of use for the player
playing gran turismo and trying to make the car drift the computer limits its spin unless its "out of control" so it will not handle like a real car
same goes for FPS they dont move shoot or breath just like a real person with a firearm
the reason is two fold on one side there wouldnt be any way to completly control every aspect of a human being (just not enough buttons and wires lol) and two even if they could it wouldnt be any fun because the games would be so exceedingly difficult no one would play them

with that out of the way i can tell you i dont drive the same way on the road that i do in GTA:Vice City or Forza 3
i have drifted on a track and its way more difficult than any videogame could portray

same goes for shooting the feel the smell the power are all not represented in VG land and i surely dont shoot the same way in real life as i would in a game

my interest for firearms came later in life than most people so i was introduced to guns in movies and video games
but in the same notion i could rationalize that if walking driveing jumping and flying are all represented wrong in games so must shooting
i researched ALOT of things before ever pulling my first trigger in reality
understanding that reality and virtual reality are seperate entities is an important concept to grasp no matter what the media source

Cromlech
March 16, 2010, 07:13 PM
I hate to be 'that guy' of gaming forums (PC fanboy :D), but I will point out that Crysis on PC has some lovely weapon models.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9143/fy713.th.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/fy713.jpg/)http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7316/scarx.th.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/scarx.jpg/)http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1562/dsg12.th.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/dsg12.jpg/)

A lot of us realise how unrealistic game weapons and ballistics (in the games that feature things like bullet drop - ie Battlefield 2 and STALKER), and some attempt to correct these as best they can, in the form of mods and file editing.

Project Reality for Battlefield 2 (while still not exactly a simulator) is a big improvement for realism.

oasis618
March 16, 2010, 07:28 PM
acr is 4 newbs only deagle is 1337 pwnage
Do I even want to ask?

Cosmoline
March 16, 2010, 07:58 PM
"1337" is old BBS speak for leet, which is short for elite, and a reference to the best hackers. Now used for players in online games. "Leet up" is another one I've seen.

pwnage is ownage, a word meaning a decisive and speedy triumph.

newbs = greenhorns

deagle of course is Desert Eagle

If you were using the terms fifteen years ago, you might have had some claim to "leet" status. Now they're just silly.

Skillet
March 16, 2010, 08:14 PM
i love how in these games it takes about five shots from a .308 caliber rifle to take an opposing forces combatant out.

Hatterasguy
March 16, 2010, 08:40 PM
Playing video games when I was little is what turned me on to the AK47.:D


Its absolutly product placement.

THE DARK KNIGHT
March 16, 2010, 08:47 PM
i love how in these games it takes about five shots from a .308 caliber rifle to take an opposing forces combatant out.

Yeah, they should just make it a one-shot like real life. That way every single time you lag or your opponent has better twitch you just get dropped instantly. Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to win a game if the other team is hosting. That would be so much fun! When I sit down in front of the xbox I'm not looking to have fun with my friends online or anything. I want ultra realistic gun use and long boring lessons about real world firearms use.

Oh, by the way. If these games are responsible for a rise in anything, it would be use of a certain six letter word starting with N. Spend 3 minutes on xbox live and you'll know exaaaaaactly what I'm talking about.

And yes, Modern Warfare 2 is the largest MEDIA release of all time. That's counting albums, movies, books, etc. It surpassed Grand Theft Auto 4 which was another gigantic blockbuster.

Also, these games are not cheap or easy to develop. These aren't your old NES games. Are they cheaper than a big motion picture? Oh yes. Lots. But there's still a lot that goes into making these games, some of them take 5+ years and a couple hundred people to make. Fun fact about the Call of Duty games is they do not use artificial sound - all the gun sounds are recordings of that gun that the creators fire/rack/load/etc and record at an outdoor range.

C-grunt
March 16, 2010, 10:06 PM
I am a gamer and Modern Warfare 2 is probably my favorite game right now.

I can tell you that these games have made huge leaps and bounds in the RKBA. remember that the games prime audience is the computer generation and therefor they can and will easily look up proper info about these guns.

I also believe that there was probably some serious money in advertising with some of the guns. The ACR in the game is one of the best rifles you can get. very accurate with good power.

Games are just too popular for the industry not to advertise in them. MW2 made over 500 million dollars in its first week.

Also for you guys who complain about taking multiple shots. Most of these games now have a "hardcore" mode that eliminates all your on screen info and simulates wounds more realisticaly. No cross hairs makes you use the weapon sites. A shot to the torso or head is death, unless its through a wall or from a distance with a pistol, then you might live. Multiple shots to the extremities also kills you.

C-grunt
March 16, 2010, 10:07 PM
Oh, by the way. If these games are responsible for a rise in anything, it would be use of a certain six letter word starting with N. Spend 3 minutes on xbox live and you'll know exaaaaaactly what I'm talking about.

.

Amen. Thank god for the mute player option!

Nicodemus38
March 16, 2010, 10:13 PM
ad placement in pc games is very common. ive been reading that in a year or so, they will be releasing computer games that can let you do things in the real world.

for example theres a game in development that will be able to let you go to "pizza hut" in the game, order a pizza, and have YOUR local pizza hut send you the pizza.
Have hear about several online games that let you buy various merchandise from within the game from the internet.

Skillet
March 16, 2010, 10:20 PM
wow, that will be a money guzzler!!


lets just hope we don't get to surrogates status.

loki.fish
March 16, 2010, 10:29 PM
Nicodemus, you've been able to order pizza in a PC game for a couple of years now. I'm not sure on exactly what game, but I do know it was a MMORPG(massive multiplayer online role playing game for those who don't know). I'm wanting to say it was Everquest II, but I can't remember.

As for FPS games, I play them, they're about the only kind of game I'll play. Battlefield Bad Company 2 is a nice competitor to Modern Warfare 2.

To the guy who remembered using an RPG to "super jump" on DOOM, you could still do that in Modern Warfare to get on buildings you shouldn't be able to get on.

Socom for PS2 was what really got me into guns. Figured out what some of the guns were really called from that game was interesting. Shooting some of them IRL was even more so.

THE DARK KNIGHT
March 16, 2010, 10:49 PM
for example theres a game in development that will be able to let you go to "pizza hut" in the game, order a pizza, and have YOUR local pizza hut send you the pizza.
Have hear about several online games that let you buy various merchandise from within the game from the internet.

I'm wanting to say it was Everquest II, but I can't remember.

Correct, you've been able to order pizza to your house from EQ2 for a little over 5 years now. They added to feature shortly after release. Just type /pizza in the chat box while playing

happygeek
March 16, 2010, 10:53 PM
cbrgator wrote:

I saw an episode of Penn and Teller Bull****! when they found some kid who was obsessed with these types of video games. They took him to a real range to fire a real gun. He cried. I don't think he'll confuse games with reality anymore.

Maybe all children who shoot guns in video games shoot have to take a range trip so they understand the difference. Give them the opportunity to feel the power and recoil of a real gun, how loud a shot actually is, etc.


That was in the episode about The War on Violent Video Games. Their whole point in taking that kid to the range was to disprove what some politicians and activists try to claim: that FPS games are training sims for mass shootings. It was too bad they handed the poor kid a 5.56, he barely had the buttstock on his shoulder and when he pulled the trigger it came up and hit him in the jaw. They could have given the kid a 22LR and still proved their point.

Video games were actually a big reason why I got interested in guns in the first place. I played World at War (WWII game) a LOT while gone, and then bought a 1911 as soon as I got back to the states. I later bought a M1 Garand. Now I'm wanting a K98 and a Mosin.

In Modern Warfare 2 the most elite enemies you face in the single player campaign are all carrying SCAR-Hs or ACRs. The only character you play in the game who gets an ACR is the SAS character. The other half of the game when you play a regular grunt you get a SCAR-H or M4A1. You also get to run around with a M240B with 1,000 rounds of 7.62 link :confused:

Crysis was an awesome game on the PC. Thing looks like a Pixar movie if you've got a machine capable of running it on 1920x1080. The game came out over 2 years ago and most gamers are just now getting desktops capable of running it on 1080p with graphics set to high. Along with great gameplay and graphics the game also lets you swap out weapons accessories like optics, visible lasers, and flashlights on the fly. I have yet to see another FPS allow the gamer to customize their weapons like that.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 16, 2010, 11:18 PM
in single player in Modern Warfare two, if you carry 2 M4s you can carry over 1,600 rounds of 5.56, thats over 53 magazines! and you thought mall ninjas were paranoid.

video games and Stargate SG1 is what got me into guns. If you type in a guns name in google that is on a video game I guarantee that for sale will follow. I tried it and these people see if their favorite gun is for sale.

happygeek
March 17, 2010, 12:11 AM
Definitely one of the less realistic aspects of the game, I think your character is pretty much carrying his own body weight with:
M240B with 1,000 rounds 7.62 link
SCAR-H with 300 rounds 7.62 ball
4 flashbangs
4 frag genades
body armor
Mitch helmet
Camelback

Games would be lot less fun if they were realistic. Your character would barely get started on the first level and he'd be dead with no respawn available.

Reminds me of The Onion's fake news on the upcoming Modern Warfare 3: the most realistic Call of Duty game yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

dmancornell
March 17, 2010, 02:15 AM
Most "realistic" games I've played are probably the Operation Flashpoint and Armed Assault series. Both have ballistic drops, rudimentary squad tactics, fire and maneuver concepts, and so forth. Nonetheless I got annoyed when the ACOG in OF2 had random BDC and no stadia marks. :)

On the other hand you have crap like this in Counterstrike:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b248/NickHugelarge/fd445552.jpg

And yes I have seen kids yanking on the forward assist at the range.

hso
March 17, 2010, 02:39 AM
We used to see people doing stupid things they had have picked up at the movies, now it's people doing stupid things they picked up in games.

This is one of the few threads with the word "game" in it that hasn't drifted into ban territory right way for shifting focus onto gaming instead of firearms issues. I hope it can avoid that pitfall.

I doubt that game companies would have any requirement to reveal how much they paid or were paid due to placement of gun company copyrighted/trademarked material. Pity, it would have been interesting.

I suppose it's not surprising that younger shooters were inspired to look to real firearms once they were exposed to their entertainment source. How many older members got real six shooters and rifles because they saw their cowboy heros on "the silver screen" and B&W TV and graduated from the toy one while those of us in my generation grew up with Bond and war movies/TV and itched for the day we could get old enough to trade our plastic and wood toys for "real" M1s?

dmancornell
March 17, 2010, 03:11 AM
^

I bought the S&W 500 because I was even more of a man than Dirty Harry.

Unfortunately I can only shoot one cylinder then my hand needs an ice pack.

ForumSurfer
March 17, 2010, 11:09 AM
I hate to be 'that guy' of gaming forums (PC fanboy ), but I will point out that Crysis on PC has some lovely weapon models.

You should take a look at Far Cry 2. I checked it out since it came free with a video card that I bought for my son's pc. Open expanse of African terrain and weapons that degrade over time. The arsenal is mostly eastern bloc stuff. I gotta admit, I had a blast for a couple of days running around aimlessly with a silenced Makarov and a Dragunov collecting blood diamonds. I also amused myself with a M1903 Springfield dropping the local 4-legged wildlife. Of course, they throw in a useless desert eagle for all the little script kiddies out there.

After playing it, I also rekindled a lost flame. The Makarov. I had one ever so briefly and sold it before ever even firing it. I find myself looking around for milsurp now at a bargain price. Yes, I am a grown man and yes I have let a video game affect my firearm purchases (assuming I buy another Mak).

Cromlech
March 17, 2010, 11:49 AM
Weapon degradation is indeed pretty cool. STALKER games also have it, though not everyone is happy with just how fast some of them degrade when fired enough.
Of course, all you need to do is open up the LTX weapons files with Notepad and change the values!

I do think that shooters in general, and FPS games specifically are a good starting point for some kids (in LIMITED 'doses'!). Sure, even the most realistic games can't teach them how to how real steel, or account for wind, but it gets many kids interested. I was an Army Cadet anyway, but I would not be so interested in firearms if it weren't for games like DooM, Goldeneye, Rise of the Triads, Duke Nukem (Mossberg shotty!), Half Life, Hidden and Dangerous, and many more.

The same goes for movies and TV show, but lets face it, FPS games like Call of Duty are THE biggest influence for this generation when it comes to firearms.
For older people it might have been John Wayne/Clint Eastwood, or James Bond.

Nope, these days it's Soap and Captain Price.

happygeek
March 17, 2010, 12:17 PM
That was actually a very well written article. Penn & Teller Bull**** (HBO show) has touched on both topics, but not in the same episode. They made the point that most of the fuss about violent video games was based around Columbine. But heck, most kids play video games. It's at best a casual correlation. Personally, I'd say parenting is by far the most important, not what video games are available.

One thing the article did leave out was how many gun laws the Columbine killers had already broken before they ever fired a shot. Illegal possession of a sawed off shotgun (a felony with 10 years if I'm not badly mistaken), illegal straw purchases, possession while underage, etc. They also had illegal explosives.

It seems people always want to blame something other than the psychotic killers themselves. It was the video games fault. It was the gun's fault. It was societies fault. Me, if I blame anything other than the two murderers themselves, I blame their parents a bit for raising such psychos.

ForumSurfer
March 17, 2010, 12:43 PM
Personally, I'd say parenting is by far the most important, not what video games are available.

Amen brother, you said a mouthful.

You can't blame spit on the games or movies. My kid is exposed to it at his friend's houses, schools or many other places outside of my domain where I can't control it. That is why you should be an active parent. Especially while they are young enough to want their parent(s) to be active in their lives.

Half of this nation's problems can be traced back to selfish, irresponsible, lazy parents.:fire::banghead:

Why does everyone insist on blaming scapegoats like violent games, movies, guns, whatever? Why can't we just blame the people who are being irresponsible?:what: We're too politically correct to call lazy, bad, self parents just that.:fire: Maybe it's just me because when I share this opinion aloud I am often met with blank stares and the "Oh my goodness" expressions. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/zerglin/Smileys/drool.gif

I played violent video games and watch violent movies. I turned out just fine because I had great parents that taught me things like respect and honor. Those games/movies may influence my purchases at some point in my life on some level, but not my actions.

~~~End Rant~~~

P.S. Sorry for straying off topic...:o

Madcap_Magician
March 17, 2010, 01:30 PM
The ammo thing bugs me the most.

1,000 rounds of 7.62 linked and an M240? I don't care if you had a 500 on your last Raaaaaaaanger PT test, you'll be sweating bullets fast. It's not even just the weight, which is considerable. It's the awkwardness of having belts of ammo sliding in odd places and the fact that it's nearly impossible to fire the M240 standing with any degree of accuracy.

The only time you carry tons of ammo like that is when you have a truck or a track to carry it in.

I mean, I'm paranoid about running out of ammo, and sure, I'll carry an extra drum or three or four extra mags.

But sometimes it goes a bit overboard.

buy guns
March 17, 2010, 01:58 PM
Video games have definitely introduced me to more gun models then I probably would have come across on my own. I won't lie, I've definitely been wanting a G3 since playing the first Modern Warfare :D

CelticArmory
March 17, 2010, 02:14 PM
For a few years I organized a shooting event with my gaming clan. Most of the guys who hadn't shot before were attentive and learned the safety rules right off. They even shot well for n00bs. There were a few though that wanted to be "gangsta". I made sure they behaved and then didn't invite them back for the next shoot. I think for most of them who had never shot before it really helped them see the difference between the game and real life. At least now they understand why I gripe in the game so much about the lack of realism. LOL

CSS changed the names and there isn't any product placement, but I do see it in other games. It gets expensive to create them, paying all those programmers way more than they're worth, so I can understand approaching corporations, especially arms manufacturers, with offers to advertise their product for a little kick back. It helps pay for the game. On the flip side manufacturers see the popularity of the games and see interest in their products rise with the release of new games that feature them, so I can understand the companies approaching the game creators and offering to help pay for the game if they put their products in it. It's a win-win situation for both game and arms companies.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 17, 2010, 09:49 PM
I have/was arguing with a kid that plays video games and airsoft and he was saying how ar-15s can't shoot 5.56 x 45 when i have done it personally, he claimed that you can have the barrel bored out so you then can shoot 5.56 x 45. airsoft and video games is a better source of info i guess.:rolleyes:

sprice
March 17, 2010, 10:01 PM
''pwnd'' or ''pwn'' means rapped or owned, take your pick.

LS240
March 17, 2010, 10:44 PM
I'm a huge gamer and have been since I was little. I also love Modern Warfare 2 and play it frequently on Xbox Live. As good as it is(when somebody's not knifing you! :fire: ), it is most certainly not realistic. Dual wielding 12 gauge shotguns and having to get multiple COM hits on someone with a Barrett M82A1 to drop them are the rule of the day. I can attest to it's effect of getting people interested in firearms though. Nearly every time my friends are playing MW2 they ask me questions about the firearms in the game. Even my best friend who is indifferent at best about guns, an anti at worst(I'm working on him), asked me if one could buy an ACR in reality and if it's as awesome as it is in the game. I relish questions like this as I see them as an opportunity to teach my friends something every time.

I challenge everyone who plays shooters online to do the same. Use the games as an opening to talk to your online friends about firearms. People are more apt to hear arguments for civilian ownership of guns when they just got an "awesome" triple kill with an M16A4 and you point out to them they could buy the real civilian equivalent. That usually perks their interest a bit and makes them want to hear more. You could very well steal away a few people from the clutches of the antis this way.

xcgates
March 17, 2010, 11:39 PM
I have to say, the last time I really played much in the way of video games was back in early high school, before I discovered how fun real life could be. Largely it was driving that did in video games for me. I mean, I could stare at a TV driving, or I could actually go out and have fun behind the wheel of a real car!

That said, my roommates and I frequently compare the guns in games they play to real life guns. We do the same thing with TV shows and movies. Most recently it was when I asked for the gazillionth time what a P-90 shot, and finally looked up what it fired, and more concerning, how many rounds a real one shot before reloading. I forget whether it was Stargate, or some video game, though. Then I got REALLY excited when I read about the PS-90. Lets just say I have another thing to break one of those pesky 10 commandments over.:what:

Big_E
March 18, 2010, 04:48 AM
Video games definitely helped keep my interest up before I turned 18 and found this site. Most of my infatuation with guns mainly came from action movies as a kid and that my parents/grandparents owned and shot guns a lot.

It does help bring up an interest and most of my friends that want to purchase a firearm now come to me asking questions. Don't be fooled though, there are plenty of anti's in video game forums (yeah I know, I need more to do in life). Kind of funny when people say they hate war and violence then praise a game like MW2 as best game ever. It is satisfying to take newbies to the range when the only triggered they have pulled before was the one on a plastic controller. (I wish Glock made Xbox controllers, mine always seem to break. :rolleyes:)

As for advertisements, more power to the companies, I know I would invest in advertising in video games if I had large business.

danprkr
March 18, 2010, 08:54 AM
and the worst part is just a sequel; and required little developlment. modern warfare, world at war, and modern warfare 2 are all VERY similar just tweaked/different looks so they spent ALOT less than a blockbuster movie budget and made ALOT more...

That's the, "worst part of it?" Sounds like the best part of it to me. After all, they don't make those games for fun. They make them to make money. Sounds like the accomplished their goal, and so I take my hat off to them.

happygeek
March 19, 2010, 03:56 PM
Unfortunately I couldn't find the whole episode in one piece on youtube.
Link to Penn & Teller Bull**** episode on The War on Video Games (S07E03).

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKJj84SQia4&feature=related

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YskcWRLnXao&feature=related

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUSQOLXaoIU&feature=related

The beginning of Part 3 is where the 9 year old kid who loves Call of Duty shoots a real AR15 for the first time. Needless to say, it was easy for Penn & Teller to prove their point that video games are not shooting simulators.

Shung
March 19, 2010, 05:52 PM
In Switzerland, people from nearly all political sides, and who are over 45YO, want to totally ban "violent" video games.. it has been accepted by both chambers yet.. we still need to hear the opinion of the federal concil about it.. What is funny is that young people from the same parties are totally opposed to the ban...

kinda weird...

Hatterasguy
March 20, 2010, 03:11 PM
Every generation goes through this. The baby boomers had their wild rock n roll, etc.

Games are fun, but realy life is more fun.

I remember when I took a gammer/airsoft friend of mine shooting for the first time. He was amazed at how loud my Sig was and how quickly the barrel and gas block get hot. In the games you can fire off thousands of rounds, in real life the barrel melts.

happygeek
March 20, 2010, 04:33 PM
It seems people are always looking for something to blame for irrational/random violence. Something that if only they ban then said irrational/random violence won't occur again. People don't want to feel as though as though such violence can happen pretty much anywhere at anytime, and does.

We saw this after 9/11. Some wanted to believe in conspiracy theories because they didn't want to believe that the attack was random/irrational violence. I seem to remember that after the Oklahoma City bombing some tried to blame militias. We see this all the time with mass shootings. If only we ban Call of Duty and AR15s then this won't happen ever again.

I can almost understand it. People want to feel safe. Even the VPC/Brady Campaign says things like "would you feel safer sitting next to someone with a gun?". When it comes down to it, pretty much everything they're pushing for is a feel good law to help those people feel safe.

Me, I've often felt very unsafe driving in the states, witnessing the behavior of many of my fellow motorists. I'm not out there advocating we ban military style assault vehicles like the Hummer though. I wear my seatbelt, obey the five over rule, and try to drive defensively.

Mandolin
March 20, 2010, 07:54 PM
Definitely one of the less realistic aspects of the game, I think your character is pretty much carrying his own body weight with:
M240B with 1,000 rounds 7.62 link
SCAR-H with 300 rounds 7.62 ball
4 flashbangs
4 frag genades
body armor
Mitch helmet
Camelback

Ok, let's see
M240: 27lb
1,000 rounds Acording to this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100109112255AAUbLoU 9lb/100 rounds that's 90lb of ammo
SCAR-H: about 8lb, and 27lb ammo
4x flashbangs: 4lb total?
4x frags: 4lb
Body armour: 20-30 lb?
Total: about 190lb, or enough to require a fireteam to carry. There's a reason everyone went with the 5.56 Minimi/M249 SAW over the M60, FN MAG, etc.

Cromlech
March 21, 2010, 12:54 AM
Depending on which one of them you believe (if either of them), two of the infamous Bravo Two Zero guys claimed to have carried about that much.

The total weight of each member's kit was estimated at 95 kg (210 lb) by McNab and 120 kg (260 lb) by Ryan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Two_Zero)

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8844/andymcnab.th.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/andymcnab.jpg/)http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8336/bravotwozeroloadout.th.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/bravotwozeroloadout.jpg/)

It's worth pointing out that when the SHTF they dumped their Bergens, anyway.


*pre-emptive edit*
Of course that was loads of different things, not just ammo. :D

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 21, 2010, 01:31 AM
I sense trouble on the tracks ahead.

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