Yes, More Mosin questions


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devildog32713
March 17, 2010, 02:20 PM
I looked at a few Ishevesk 91/30's at the local gun store, $100 cash'n'go and they are all matching parts, look in good condition, I am going to go back and inspect bore condition, what am I looking for exactly? pointers on identfying signs of corrosion, a lot of wear? Are there major functional differences with Tula vs. Ishevesk? And someone is who is an EXPERT, could you give me THOUROUGH instructions for cleaning cosmoline off one, is it neccessary to take the bolt apart? I found instructions on it, but am not going to do it unless it is neccessary, as I don't trust myself to do it correctly....and ammo reccomendations, found some brass cased ammo on sportsmanguide.com, is it really non-corrosive?? and THOUROUGH instructions on barrel cleaning after corrosive shooting, from experts only, have too many meathead suggestions that make no sense on all things Mosin....Desperatly want a Mosin.....

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Onmilo
March 17, 2010, 02:27 PM
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/

gunnutery
March 17, 2010, 02:37 PM
I believe www.theboxotruth.com has an article about cleaning off cosmoline. I haven't been able to fire my mosin yet due to time constraints, but I've read how to take apart the bolt and it didn't make much sense, until I actually tried it. It's really not too complicated and I would recommend at least taking the bolt down enough to check the firing pin protrusion, it can be a safety hazard if it extends too far. A special guaging tool should come with it.

murdoc rose
March 17, 2010, 03:22 PM
take the bolt out and look down the bore if its bright and shinny thats better than black ull see the difference , as far as arsenals no, no reason to take the bolt apart unless it doesn't fire, when it comes to these I assume all ammo is corrosive and clean as such by pouring boiling water down the barrel then cleaning normally. Good to clean the bolt too.

NMGonzo
March 17, 2010, 03:37 PM
The cosmoline is the tricky part that most people tend to oversee.

It looks and feels like ear wax; get to it and remove it ALL.

Sticky chambers are due improper cosmoline removal.

courtgreene
March 17, 2010, 04:35 PM
odorless mineral spirits, wd40, wipe dry and oil. do it in that order and be meticulous. that's how i got the cosmoline off my mauser and it was CAKED ON... it's not hard, you just have to let the chemicals do their job.
if something is stuck, hit it with wd40 and let it soak in for about 15 minutes, then it will usually break free. that stuff was great for preserving guns but it's a bitch to remove. The bolt looks intimidating but if you follow the directions on surplusrifle.com (i think that's the url, they have a pdf) then it's not hard, and once you take it apart you sit back and say "good lord its so logistically simple and perfect" and it becomes easy to put back together.
I don't have a mosin but I did all the work on my friend's. take the bolt apart and clean it well or you will have cosmoline leaking out of it when it warms up (if it's caked in there, and the only way to know is to take it apart and check) while you have it apart you may as well sand the barrel channel, that will help you out more than you would think in the accuracy department.
Finally, corrosive ammo isn't that big a deal if you clean it but it really is a pain in the ass. avoid it if at all possible, but if you have yo use it just make sure you dump hot SOAPY water down the barrel then immediately follow with wd40 while it's still steaming to make sure it doesn't rust. then, like the above poster says, clean like any other rifle. (don't use a bore snake, you need to make sure nothing is left to cause rust in the grooves)
they are good guns, well ahead of their time, they just need us to understand them.

kis2
March 17, 2010, 05:39 PM
+1 on the bolt being easy to take apart.

one thing id make sure to check while your there is the crown/muzzle. if you can, make sure a round will seat into the muzzle the way it should, ive seen (and have) a mosin where the muzzle is uber worn from the corrosive ammo years earlier.

regardless, youll be happy! comsmoline is just part of the amazing journey that is mosin...

Zack
March 17, 2010, 05:55 PM
you can youtube(sounds funny) how to take apart the bolt, thats what I did. The online picture by picture was hard. Also make sure the barrel is bright not dark. Look for good groves not pits on them or "dull" groves. Look at the groves closely make sure you see them, not worn down or dull. I really want to get a m91/30. I got the m44 and it is very fun to shoot. You will like the mosin nagant! You can get spam cans of surplus ammo cheap under $100 and you get 440 rounds. Just clean with hoppes #9 and you will not have to worry about corrsive salts. I didnt clean my bolt untill after I shot it but I would not recommend this as for some they have sticky bolts.

Cosmoline
March 18, 2010, 01:34 PM
odorless mineral spirits

I've also been having good luck with 100% alch on the impacted cosmoline, particularly in hard-to-reach parts of the inside of the bolt that can gum things up badly. go ahead and soak the broken-down parts in the stuff, then use q-tips to get everything out. I suggest finishing with a light coat of CLP.

Also it's a good idea to scrub the chamber and lug grooves out with a large-bore bristle brush. I use .45 cal brushes on short bendy wires. I got them at a military surplus store, I believe for 1911 cleaning.

For the bores I use a stiff bristle 8mm brush and bore gel, over and over again until I get to shine. Sometimes you end up finding a bunch of pitting, sometimes the bore is good. On some the bores are minty fresh to start with, with crisp lands at the crown and a brilliant shiny bore. You can see the lands all the way back when the bolt is removed and the rifle held to a light.

Sometimes the ratty bores will outshoot the clean ones. The biggest difference is the rattier, older bores are MUCH more difficult to clean up after a range session. They have thousands of micro-size edges that catch bits of jacket and powder. A minty bore will clean up real fast. Best place to find the really minty bores is on post-1940 Finnish Mosins and Polish M44's.

There's no way to be sure what's going to work best out of a Mosin. There are simply too many historical and physical variations. I always do an initial test with an array of ammo types. On my most recent 91/30, for example, I found horrible results with heavy ball and 180 S&P but fantastic accuracy with Wolf target light ball. On other rifles the exact opposite is the case. Just try a bunch and see, noting your results. In the end each rifle tends to end up with a "paradigm" load or commercial cartridge which I then notate and put under the buttplate on waterproof paper (in case I forget years from now). With a Finn that might be a D166 handload, with an old M91 it might be a 203 grain Barnaul.

devildog32713
March 19, 2010, 12:24 PM
ok, well I plan to be using this brass cased surplus round at the sportsman guide. (link) http://http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=195727 I am not a high volume shooter, (for now, I'm 14, and mow lawns for money). And I would rather buy this ammo, because I can buy it in much smaller quanities (15 rounds, 150 rounds, vs. 440 rounds at a time) When I'm older, I may buy the 440 round spam cans. And another random question to anyone who knows, have you seen those .32 ACP adapters for the Mosins? It allows you to shoot .32 ACP and .32 Long from a Mosin, I'm not an expert, but how can you fire a .32 caliber cartridge from a .30 caliber bore?? (see this link) http://http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=587989

blakeci
March 19, 2010, 02:15 PM
.32 ACP is what they call the cartridge, it doesn't mean the bullet is .32
The reason one can shoot .38 special out of a .357 is that the .38's bullet is actually a .357 diameter bullet, or close to it (I'm not a reloader) They just called it a .38 special. :scrutiny:

M2
March 19, 2010, 02:18 PM
Everything you need to know can be found at: http://7.62x54r.net

And you are confusing the Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R rifle with the Nagant 1895 revolver. You can shoot .32 Smith & Wesson Long and .32 H&R Magnum cartridges through the latter, but it's better to use the 7.62x38 round for which it was designed.

Here's a picture of the two, I got one of each at a gun show earlier this month...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/Guns/1926and1915Tulas3.jpg

The rifle is a 1926 Tula ex-Dragoon, and the revolver a 1915 Tula Peter the Great. :neener:

Cheers! M2

devildog32713
March 20, 2010, 02:45 AM
I'm not confusing the two, I know what Nagant revolver is, and I know what the Mosin is, check out the link...

Cosmoline
March 20, 2010, 02:55 AM
Your links aren't working, but I believe I know what you're referring to. There's just not a lot of point to the adapter for a M-N. You can shoot .309" handgun bullets from the 7.62x54R. You handload using plinker round data. You just need to keep FPS low to avoid jacket separation. Or better yet use your own hardcast plinkers. Factory .32 ACP is considerably more expensive than surplus 54R and kind of a PINA to deal with the rounds are so tiny.

devildog32713
April 1, 2010, 11:16 AM
so everyone, soak my metal parts and scrub in kerosene ok?

TenDriver
April 1, 2010, 12:54 PM
You can boil them as well. Did that to my bolt and after a minute or two in the boiling water the cosmoline started to float to the top. What was left on the bolt wiped off easily. I've heard steam cleaners work just as well.

devildog32713
April 1, 2010, 06:31 PM
ok, I'll try that, bought my Mosin today, going to pick it up either this evening or in the morning, plan to pick up a few boxes of ammo Fri at the gunshow and shoot her this weekend, I named her, "Aleksandra" yeaah, it means in russian "defender of mankind" so I thought that was fitting. :D :D :D :D

jnyork
April 1, 2010, 07:52 PM
After you buy it, slug your bore. It might be anywhere from .308 up to about .313 or so. I have 11 of these rifles of various pedigrees, all the rifles are oversize, the carbines are usually OK. In my rifles I have found I can load the 123 grain AK47 bullets , they are IIRC .310 or .311, they shoot far better than the .308 bullets, you dont need to use so much powder and they dont have near the recoil.

stubbicatt
April 1, 2010, 09:47 PM
There is nothing to fear from corrosive ammunition if you clean your rifle properly.

Enjoy your new purchase. What a great place to start off, these are some fantastic rifles.

rickomatic
April 1, 2010, 09:55 PM
Sometimes the ratty bores will outshoot the clean ones.
I concur. My 91/30 is a sewer pipe and I can shoot small watermelon sized rocks offhand at 200 yds. I can't do that good with some of my "better" guns.

devildog32713
April 2, 2010, 11:27 AM
it's got a shiney bore, but the bolt is a tad rattely, tightened it up some, still a little bit rattley, anything to worry about?

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