Police cadets scare me...


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Warhawk83
March 17, 2010, 10:56 PM
:what:

This one did at least. I went to the indoor range yesterday and this guy comes in with his Glock 22. Said he had shot it only once before and came to practice because he is "going into law enforcement".

Well,his practice consisted of one magazine rapid fired/ double tapped for the most part at 2 whole yards. The target looked like he was using a shotgun and he missed the head 4 times.

He did help me out. I have a flinch to other peoples shots and after him rapid firing and rapid firing some more, it toned down a bit. :cool:

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NOLAEMT
March 17, 2010, 11:33 PM
Last time I was at the indoor range, the sheriffs deputy next to me put up one of those B-27 type targets, the big ones. she reeled it out to about 17 yards (between the 15 and 20 yard lines). and emptied a magazine from her glock 17. After she reeled it back in I looked over her shoulder, and saw THREE (3) whole bullet holes on the paper.

How she qualified with that weapon I'll never know?

armoredman
March 17, 2010, 11:38 PM
I wear armor on the Dept range for a reason...

DoubleTapDrew
March 17, 2010, 11:39 PM
From what I've heard from LEO friends there aren't more gunnies in that line of work than your general population, it's just another piece of equipment to qualify with and hope you don't have to use. A little disconcerting considering they may be the ones to come to the rescue, but all the more reason to become as good as you can and not rely on others to save your bacon.
Also have heard that sky marshalls have a very demanding qualification and are usually very proficient with their weapon.

KAK
March 17, 2010, 11:40 PM
Haha Ive shot with a cop before and I can out shoot him. Cops are not anything special.

4sooth
March 17, 2010, 11:41 PM
She qualifies just as many do--with skilled use of a pencil! Picked at random from any given department, fifty percent could not qualify with their job on the line.

tkaction
March 18, 2010, 12:24 AM
I have friend in the state police who was also an mp in the army. He will shoot a sig 9mm into a 2 inch group at 20 yards all the time. I want him to come when I dial 911.

BigO01
March 18, 2010, 12:34 AM
LOL this thread reminded me of the first time I went to an indoor range with a LEO friend and practiced with pistols together .

This was back in the Mid 80's and the all of the Police movies and TV shows all seemed to have at least one scene where an officer has an encounter with an armed Bad Guy holding a hostage in front of them with a gun pointed at their head and the Hero " Lead Actor/Leo of the show" makes a clean shot killing the BG while preventing them from ever getting off a shot into their Hostage .

Now my friend was an accomplished shot with rifles and shotguns who started shooting in his very early ages as we met in grade school and went to his family's farm and shot both while in grade school .

The thing is he NEVER fired a handgun until he joined the Marines the summer after high school and then not very much as he was a Cook attached to an infantry battalion who spent most of his time either cooking on a ship or training as a grunt .

When he was discharged he went into Law Enforcement and I use to tease him whenever watching one of these scenes in a film by asking him if he would take the shot if he found himself in that situation .

Well When at the range and down to our last Silhouette he looks at me and reminds me of my teasing him about it and suggests that we each take one side of the head area and each fire thee rounds to see who would best handle the standoff , to which I of course agreed .

We ran the target to about 15 feet and I fired first at the right side of the "Head" with my S&W 6 inch 586 and the result was a nice little triangle with the farthest left hole being dead center in the BG's nose , the lowest about 1 higher and slightly to the right and the other would have been right into the cheekbone all would have been 1 shot kills on a live human . My friend then looks at me and says "Man you shoot slow" .

Then my friend and LEO fires his three rounds with his off duty 380 and manages to hit the target with only one round and that just barely in the upper shoulder which would have resulted in nothing but a minor wound to a live BG , upon retrieving the target close enough to clearly see all the holes in it I looked at him and said to him " Yes I shoot slow but I hit what I am aiming at , with you the best the hostage could hope for is that you scared the BG into a heart attack B4 he got his brains blown out !!"
LOL

bobelk99
March 18, 2010, 12:51 AM
No disrespect intended to our dedicated LEOs, but remember:

When seconds count, law enforcement is only minutes away.

Steve in PA
March 18, 2010, 12:58 AM
The title of the thread should be changed to "Non-LEO's at the range scare me" because that is the correct title. He wants to get into law enforcement, but he is not a LEO. He is currently Joe Blow off the street.

Warhawk83
March 18, 2010, 01:39 AM
Well, a cadet isn't a LEO. There are a lot of young guys "going into law enforcement" around here. I hear it all the time and rarely do I believe them.

cyclopsshooter
March 18, 2010, 01:56 AM
gun dealer bashing... police officer bashing... we sure are a positive bunch

Nighthawk0083
March 18, 2010, 02:25 AM
My roommate is a corrections officer and he is quite the shot for only starting to shoot in the past couple of years. Some have it and some dont but if you practice you can become a proficient shot

nathan
March 18, 2010, 02:38 AM
I met a few of these types at the public range. Young dudes wearing black pants , SWAT type shirts and ballistic sidearm holsters wraparound velco at the thigh. One had a fancy AR with all the christmas tree decors attached to it.

I got to befriend them and he braggingly showed me his police ID which I really didnt ask for ( I didnt look close either). But with the kind of behavior he is shooting, rapid firing and somewhat childish behaviors---- it gives me the scary thought , What, tHese guys are LEOs ?! Give me a break.

KAK
March 18, 2010, 02:39 AM
When cops don't know the law and say something is illegal when its not, it pisses me off so bad. :fire:

Me personally, I should get a tax credit back, I don't need the cops, their often times sub-par skill levels with guns, and slower than my gun response times. They wont be the first thing protecting me. The only thing they do for me is scare BGs a little less than my gun.

Zoidberg523
March 18, 2010, 02:52 AM
I have friend in the state police who was also an mp in the army. He will shoot a sig 9mm into a 2 inch group at 20 yards all the time. I want him to come when I dial 911.

No disrespect to LEOs (there are plenty of them that can handle themselves when in a stressful situation), but you are twice as likely to get Barney Fife with a (hopefully figuratively) empty gun. :neener:

AWorthyOpponent
March 18, 2010, 03:10 AM
One of our local indoor ranges gives LEO's a free target if they only hit the bad guy, not the good guy or the blank area around them. If they miss, the target costs $5. I think theyre making some money on this...

(not this exact one, but similar)
http://www.ericstone.com/uploaded_images/Tactical%20target-701328.jpg

All the other targets are the same price no matter what...

dec41971
March 18, 2010, 03:38 AM
I heard most NYC cops are pretty bad shots especially because they have to pay for all their range practice sessions including ammo. :eek: As a result most go like once a year. :uhoh:

AzBuckfever
March 18, 2010, 03:41 AM
That "police cadet" watches too much TV if he thinks training is going to be all about rapid fire and double tapping :) Gotta love the mentality in carrying a Glock though, more ammo, more fire.
Also love the comments about attire as discussed that some wear to the range. 5.11 tac pants, 5.11 belt, POLO shirt. Although, I have to say that most of these people (myself included) don't wear this stuff for the look or to project an image....I wear it because it is a lot more comfortable and accessible than some wrangler jeans and a t-shirt. Plus, it's a lot better than seeing someone at the range with shorts, t-top, and flip flops....When I have to qualify for pistol, and I have to carry 50+ rounds...having cargo pockets makes it a lot easier to reload your magazines in between simulations than trying to dig them out of side pockets, especially when wearing duty gear. I also look at it from a perspective of hunters on a rifle hunt who wear camo. WHY? To conceal yourselves for that 200 yd. shot? No, because it's comfortable.
I do like the comment, "When seconds count, LE is only minutes away" :) Reminds me of a person I used to work with. Firearms instructor, at firearms training he won TOP GUN, got in a shoot out soon after (maybe a year or so I think) and suspect was never hit. Really shows you what the difference can be between proficiency on paper and someone who's shooting back. I'm sure it's a highly stressful situation and my hat is off to any of those ever involved in a shooting; but those people who walk in with the mentality of a super hero piss me off :D

brucey44
March 18, 2010, 04:37 AM
Hey NOLAEMT maybe ALL the shots went through those three holes only. :)

NG VI
March 18, 2010, 05:12 AM
Bruce all those three shots went into three holes?


AZBuckFever, I never liked Glocks until I bought a 27 to have a service-caliber small auto for my carry permit, ever since I have grown fairly (not excessive, but definitely more than I ever was before) fond of the Glock platform, I don't believe re-strike capability is useful for anything but rimfires, and I never liked safeties that I can't safely leave in the off position, so no safey is good for me, but the little 27 made me really appreciate the Glock platform. It is one of my most accurate guns, and the fact that the platform works well with high round counts doesn't mean that everyone who owns or carries one thinks they will ever need even half of them.

Sometimes it's just nice to know you will likely never need to reload in a high-stress situation. And they shoot well enough that a cool 16-18 rounds on deck means you can focus on the shots you need to take, and not stress about what might happen if you miss a couple of times. Less stress=better performance.

AzBuckfever
March 18, 2010, 06:38 AM
Guess I should have rephrased that to some mentalities :) I carry a Glock 21 for duty so, more ammo isn't necessarily accurate...more bang is but, as I always say, if I have to shoot someone I'm not so sure the first thought that hits them is going to be, "wonder if that was a 9mm or a .45". I'll probably switch to a 9mm when it becomes more practical to do so; and mainly because of the additional capacity for ammunition but not to shoot more. It would be so I don't have to carry any ammo at quals and don't have to reload my mags in between sessions.
The posted target is interesting though. I'd be getting a lot of free targets from that range because that suspect is WAY exposed....Guess it depends on the range though. When we plink at quals, we have to shoot a circle that's only about 5" in diameter which is simulative of a suspects head, and then a full metal target is in front of it simulating a hostage. I like that target.

CajunBass
March 18, 2010, 07:03 AM
If you go to the range enough, you'll find there are people there who shoot worse than you do. You'll find, most likely, there are also a lot of people who shoot better than you do.

Funny thing is almost nobody ever runs here and says "Man, I saw a guy at the range today who could shoot a lot better than I can."

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 07:33 AM
Law Enforcement Officers have a lot of skill sets to develop and maintain. Fortunately, their shooting skills are only one of many -- and for most officers, far from their most important one.

Like in any other profession, some are better than others at their various duties and responsibilites and some train harder in one area than another.

I know some officers who could use a LOT of range time with a good trainer. I know a few who can -- and routinely do -- shoot rings around me without breaking a sweat.

Collecting tales of police officers who are poor shots really isn't the mission of THR.

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