Thinking of a 338 Lapua...


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browningpotato
March 18, 2010, 09:05 AM
Alright, I need some advice on a possible 338 LM purchase. A buddy is selling his custom 338LM for what sounds like an amazing deal but I have a few concerns.

First, here is the deal: A custom 338LM with mcmillian a1 stock, Ops Inc. suppressor (which I will have to get an ATF stamp), leaupold Mark IV 4.5-20 scope, badger rings, harris bipod, and 700 factory new Black hills rounds for $3500.

I should note, that while there has only been 100 rounds through the rifle, the barrel needs replaced. It is not shot out, however, apparently when the barrel was being made there was some sort of chemical mishap (he mentioned somethig about carbon idk) and the barrel is pitting. He said it would be about 200 bucks to replace the barrel, which sounds a little cheap to me. Does that sounds about right to replace a 338LM barrel?

Also, I am somewhat concerned about getting the ATF stamp for the suppressor. I have avoided going down that road thus far and having the ATF watching me is somewhat disconcerting.

So what do you think, the ammo alone is worth $4000, it sounds like a great deal, would you jump on it?

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GMFWoodchuck
March 18, 2010, 09:10 AM
I would look further into the barrel replacement yourself. 200 bucks seem awful low. Barrels cost more than that for the "lowly" savages and remingtons.

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 09:52 AM
Also, I am somewhat concerned about getting the ATF stamp for the suppressor. I have avoided going down that road thus far and having the ATF watching me is somewhat disconcerting.
What would your concerns be about that? They aren't going to "watch" you. Generally speaking, the folks who take the trouble to file paperwork and follow the rules aren't the ones who get into trouble. The NFA guys and ladies at the BATFE have a reputation for being the very best and most helpful part of that organization.

I'd PM Zach Smith if you have any questions at all about suppressors in general and certainly their use on long-range precision rifles. He knows a little bit about that. ;)

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 09:54 AM
Oh, and, yes, $200 is a wee bit low to have a gunsmith replace that barrel with the kind you'd want on such a gun (threaded for the 'can, even). It wouldn't be a deal-killer for me, by any stretch, as it sounds like you'll end up with a HECK of a gun and the money doesn't sound like it's an issue.

Silent Sam
March 18, 2010, 10:10 AM
Those 700 rnds will last awhile but eventually you'll have to 'up' your powder storage. ;) Those 8# kegs take up some room. Outside of the ammo part of the deal, sounds like buying a problem/project. If it's got the parts you want then it's worth it.

ny32182
March 18, 2010, 10:10 AM
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is....

And 200 bucks for a match grade .338Lapua barrel replacement? I've never seen a .338Lapua rifle in my life, and can tell you that is a complete pipe dream.

DIM
March 18, 2010, 10:18 AM
I'm still waiting for TC with Warlord in .338 LM, they do have them currently in .308 MSRP at 3K what I like about them is their guaranty to shoot 1/2 MOA. Also the reviews are great as far as I can tell http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_warlord_201004/index.html

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 10:21 AM
I don't know the action type, but assuming a Rem 700, a decent barrel blank will run you $260-$350+ from Brownells. Then you've got the 'smith's time to thread the new one for the 'can, pull the old one, install the new one, and finish-ream the chamber, as well as possibly re-doing the bedding depending on how that was done.

I'd assume at least $500 for that work, at a guess.

browningpotato
March 18, 2010, 10:35 AM
He said it is a CZ action (which struck me as a bit odd). I know nothing about CZ but i had no idea they made precision rifle actions. I believe (though I oculd be wrong) that this rifle was custom made by Ops Inc and mentioned that the gun should be sent back to Ops Inc for the barrel work. It sounded like he thought they would put in a pac nor barrel so Im am guessing he has looked into it. I know a little about the history ofo the rifle and know he paid roughly $6000 for it, so it sounded like for the pain of replacing the barrel I could have one heck of a rifle that I could never afford to buy new. Does that sound about right or am I buying a giant pain in the A$$?

DIM
March 18, 2010, 10:50 AM
CZ model 750 sniper using precision action http://www.impactguns.com/store/806703050010.html

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 11:30 AM
Considering the costs involved, putting in a call to Ops Inc. might not be a bad idea.

taliv
March 18, 2010, 11:36 AM
sounds like a great deal to me

you can't even buy a decent blank for $200, but i'm assuming the 'chemical mishap' means that he can invoke some sort of warranty to get the barrel replaced for a nominal charge because it was defective

i would want to know who made the rifle. i'd also want to konw more about the scope

Oic0
March 18, 2010, 01:32 PM
If all else fails, buy the gun and sell the ammo to cover your expense. Then you've got a free gun you can piddle with over time ;) Pure win in my opinion. I don't know about you, but ammo that costs $6 a shot is too rich for my taste anyway.

Jim Watson
March 18, 2010, 02:14 PM
Do you have a long long range to shoot at in company with other monster magnums?
Seem a shame to blast away with a gun like that at the local 100 yard deer hunters' range.
It would annoy the hunters, too.

I assume it is on the big CZ action as used for .416 Rigby (.338 Lap started out as a necked down Rigby.) Probably best to let the original shop rebarrel it. That will not happen for $200 unless it is a prorated guarantee on the original because they felt bad about recommending some witches' brew cleaning. I've seen hydrogen peroxide recommended as an ingredient in some of those brews and it is very powerful when used right and when you are a bit lucky. But H2O2 is an oxidizer and will pit steel if it gets out of control. I suspect that is what happened to this one.

I don't know if $500 would cover a new .338 Lap. barrel and installation, I paid that for a Krieger .223 barrel turned, chambered, and installed. But my .308 Savage Pac-Nor was only $330 ready to install with the simple Savage procedure, so that is probably a reasonable estimate to plan with. So if it is $600, that is not a noticeable percentage increase in the cost of the gun.

AzBuckfever
March 18, 2010, 02:31 PM
What would your concerns be about that? They aren't going to "watch" you. Generally speaking, the folks who take the trouble to file paperwork and follow the rules aren't the ones who get into trouble. The NFA guys and ladies at the BATFE have a reputation for being the very best and most helpful part of that organization.

I'd PM Zach Smith if you have any questions at all about suppressors in general and certainly their use on long-range precision rifles. He knows a little bit about that. ;)
So if a stamp is required, are you promoting that this individual stray from the law and not purchase one because assumably, the ATF is not going to "watch" him. I doubt the ATF would watch me or even turn a head if I had a Class 3 weapon, but doesn't mean that I'm not going to follow the necessary procedures because of it.
Just think it's interesting that you are a moderator, and shut down another thread which lead into stories of bad occurences with law enforcement; but yet here, you nonchalantly advise someone to ignore the law because, what is out of sight, is out of mind....but maybe being a moderator of THR places you above the law and grants special considerations where the law should be enforced :D

ny32182
March 18, 2010, 02:58 PM
I don't think Sam was advocating any ignoring of laws. :rolleyes:

NG VI
March 18, 2010, 03:02 PM
AZ you read that wrong.

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 03:07 PM
Hey AzBuckFever...

How did you misread that QUITE that badly? I can understand being a little confused, but you were like WWWWWaaaaaayyyyy out of the park on that one. :rolleyes:

If you've read much I've ever written, I am a stickler for understanding and following the law, especially the sections of NFA '34 and FOPA '86 that pertain to NFA Title II firearms.

(I could throw in a few hard digs about you calling them "Class 3 weapons" when such a thing doesn't exist ... but that wouldn't be very nice of me, so I won't!)

Seriously, I'm going to laugh at this one as one of the funnier misunderstandings I've seen, but ... WOW. How in the world did you get that out of what I said?

"The mind wobbles..."

TO recap, just in case anyone else is confused by my obtuse prose... "Go ahead and do the paperwork to legally own the suppressor. The folks at the NFA branch of the ATF are very nice and helpful. And, folks who do the paperwork and follow the law don't end up getting in trouble."

7.62 Nato
March 18, 2010, 03:08 PM
Is the pitting external (cosmetic) or inside the barrel? I would contact Ops Inc. if they built the rifle and get the information straight from them. If you're not interested in the can maybe your buddy can find another buyer for it.

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 03:16 PM
Oh, and I suggested the OP contact Zak Smith (spelled Zach...sorry!), a fellow mod, of Thunder Beast Arms (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthunderbeastarms.com%2F&rct=j&q=thunder+beast+arms&ei=n22iS9KiKMS0tgeOu_T_CQ&usg=AFQjCNGbvf4hKI-ocsD-yM6i69aH67xlyw&sig2=4FmUxLV_qoUyyG9WICPxpA) -- a SOT2 manufacturer of suppressors!

1858
March 18, 2010, 03:21 PM
You can buy an outstanding stainless steel barrel from Krieger for $310 (flutes extra) but you'll most likely end up paying that much or more again to have your friendly gunsmith ream the chamber, set up the correct headspace and install the barrel on your action. I like straight taper barrels and Krieger has some contours with the chamber O.D. extended to 5" rather than the standard 2.75". This could be helpful if you burn the throat out every 1,000 rounds. Your gunsmith could run a reamer in 1/2" or so (whatever is required) to cut a new throat as needed.

:)

Maverick223
March 18, 2010, 03:29 PM
You can buy an outstanding stainless steel barrel from Krieger for $310 (flutes extra) but you'll most likely end up paying that much or more again to have your friendly gunsmith ream the chamber, set up the correct headspace and install the barrel on your action. I like straight taper barrels and Krieger has some contours with the chamber O.D. extended to 5" rather than the standard 2.75". This could be helpful if you burn the throat out every 1,000 rounds. You gunsmith could run a reamer in 1/2" or so (whatever is needed).That is exactly the route that I would go (save for the SS, which is just not my thing)...and make sure and go with a bare minimum of a 26in. barrel (28" greatly preferred). FWIW, it sounds like one heck of a deal to me. ;)

Sunray
March 18, 2010, 03:39 PM
"...would be about 200 bucks to replace the barrel..." He's confused.
Look into the cost and availability of ammo first. .338 Lapua is very expensive stuff. Runs over $100 per 20 from Midway. Hornady brass runs $31.99 per 20. Most of their offerings are on back order too.

AzBuckfever
March 18, 2010, 03:53 PM
Guess I misread it then. I apologize....

1858
March 18, 2010, 04:03 PM
That is exactly the route that I would go (save for the SS, which is just not my thing)

Mav, you're just weird!! :neener:


FWIW, it sounds like one heck of a deal to me.

One correction re the "heck of a deal" which it is ... the Leupold scope is either a 4.5-14 or 6.5-20 ... somehow I doubt that it's a 4.5-20. Even if a new barrel costs $600 by the time the thing is installed, this is still an excellent deal. I'll admit that if I were building a .338 Lapua from scratch this isn't what I'd build, but as it stands, I think this is a no brainer IF you want a .338 Lapua and IF every other compenent is copesetic. The ammunition alone is worth $$$$$. If you plan to reload, once you've shot the factory ammuntion, you've got a bunch of brass that would cost you $$$$$ too.

:)

Sam1911
March 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
Guess I misread it then. I apologize.... Hey, no worries! Felt kind of harsh the way you said it ... and I'm sensitive! But I'll heal. ;)

It's all good.

But you'd better keep an eye on me! You just never know... :D

browningpotato
March 18, 2010, 04:50 PM
Yes, I may have misheard him on the scope, it may be a 6.5-20 but I know it is a leupold Mark 4. I have purchased different things from this guy before and he is no BSer. He knows his stuff and generally spares no expense. He was straight up with me about the barrel needing replaced, though he did mention it shoots fine now but no need spending that much on a precision rifle and not spending the money to make it 100%.

As for a place to shoot it, the longest range in the area is 500yrd, certainly just a warmup for a LM. I do not NEED such a rifle but I though that there is no way I could ever afford to replicate this package so if I want a rifle of this capacity, it is now or never.

I was confused about the barrel mishap as well. It seems, on a rifle of this caliber, that the maker would replace the barrel if there is a known problem. Perhaps that is where he gets the $200 replacement cost if they are giving a discount because they know it was faulty. Either way I am still kind of on the fence, that is a lot of money for a rifle with really no practical application (at least not for a civvy like me) but also it would be nice to pick up this package at such a reduced price.

NG VI
March 18, 2010, 05:13 PM
Extreme long range hunting. Do it.

Maverick223
March 18, 2010, 06:50 PM
Mav, you're just weird!Hey, just look at some of my weird rifles...must be so. :o

Zak Smith
March 20, 2010, 02:57 AM
Without knowing the specifics, like who built the rifle, all the components, what ammo, etc, is included, it's hard to make a determination if it's a good deal or not.

I would counsel that unless you really need considerable terminal effects at 800+ yards, there are other cartridges that will perform very well for target use that are much cheaper and more "efficient" to shoot.

Other than the suppressor, you can buy a pretty good .338LM package for $4000.

-z

AzBuckfever
March 20, 2010, 04:35 AM
Hey, no worries! Felt kind of harsh the way you said it ... and I'm sensitive! But I'll heal. ;)

It's all good.

But you'd better keep an eye on me! You just never know... :D
I am a member of our crisis intervention team with SO here if you need some assistance :D, otherwise, stop whining

1858
March 20, 2010, 04:27 PM
Without knowing the specifics, like who built the rifle, all the components, what ammo, etc, is included, it's hard to make a determination if it's a good deal or not. Other than the suppressor, you can buy a pretty good .338LM package for $4000.

Black Hills only offers two choices in .338 Lapua Magnum ammunition (according to their website) ... factory new with either a 250gr or 300gr SMK. Either way, 700 rounds of that stuff is $$$$$ ... maybe more than $4,000. Now factor in the Leupold Mark 4 scope, Badger rings, McMillan stock and OPS INC. suppressor and the price WITHOUT the rifle is up around $6,510!! Maybe I'm way off on this but this seems like a great deal!! As someone suggested, you could sell the rifle (keep everything else) and use the money to build a .338 Lapua that you REALLY want. Or simply buy a new barrel and you'd still be way ahead of the curve. I guess it's easy to spend someone else's money! :)

I also agree that an outstanding .338 Lapua rifle could be assembled for less than $3,500 (Badger M2008 action, Krieger barrel, AICS stock and CG X-Treme trigger) or you could buy a Barrett 98B for about $1,000 more. However, you'd need to spend a bunch more $$$$ to buy a decent scope, rings and ammunition, not to mention a suppressor.

McMillian A1 stock ~ $500
Ops Inc. suppressor ~ $800
Leupold Mark IV 4.5-14 scope ~ $1,000
Badger rings ~ $150
Harris bipod ~ $60
Black Hills ammunition (700 = 35 boxes) ~ $4,000

:)

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