lets talk double stack .45's


PDA






AcceptableUserName
March 18, 2010, 12:52 PM
that are NOT named USP, Xd, G21 or FNP.


Were there any that could be had for cheap made in years past? Seems like the high-capacity .45 is a newer concept and an acquired taste because of grip size.

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Gunfighter123
March 18, 2010, 01:02 PM
Look up information on Para-Ordnance ----- they started the double stack .45s about 20 years ago !!!

When they first came out { made in Canada } ---- they were a alloy frame ONLY and you had to fit all frame parts { except trigger/mag release etc. } from Colt etc. and use the slide/barrel of your choice.

A few years later { 1985 ish } they started to make full D.S. guns , first in .45acp.


EDIT --- IIRC --- the first frames sold for under $300.

Gunfighter123
March 18, 2010, 01:07 PM
As to the grip size ---- I started to shoot a ParaOrd D.S. around 1989 -- custom .38 Super in IPSC competition. I have Smaller hands --- a single stack 1911 fits me like a glove --- it took about 500 rds. to get used to drawing/shooting the D.S. Paras.


I always said it was like a holding a quart bottle of beer compared to a long neck bottle!!!

AcceptableUserName
March 18, 2010, 01:11 PM
I remembered the Para after I started the thread. How are they? Will they shoot +p just fine? I've never in my life handled a single Para firearm and I've heard probably the most varied amount of either GOOD or TERRIBLE things about the company than any other gun company. They seem a bit pricey too as it's a 1911 design. If I'm spending over 700 I'm going with the USP, that's for sure.


Just trying to size up that market. I'm a firm believer in the .45 cartridge for anything except price of ammo, but finding a higher capacity one doesn't put a lot of alternatives on the table besides the big 4 or 5.

Sapper771
March 18, 2010, 01:14 PM
Para P14, STI 2011's, Springfield Armory Double Stack Milspec 1911....those are just off the top of my head.

The P14 is around $800-$1200 depending on which model you choose and in what flavor. The STI 2011s are super nice, but are super expensive too ($1500-$2200). The Springfield armory double stack mil-spec is about the cheapest one. Saw one last week for $650, but I don't know much about them.

AcceptableUserName
March 18, 2010, 01:19 PM
I didn't even know SA had a double stack. I will look long and hard at that even though I'm a foreigner to the 1911. I don't know if they're my thing yet or not.


I owned an XD 45 5", probably the most accurate pistol I've shot or owned. I am just not a fan of the XD's grip safety. A minor gripe I guess because I liked most everything else about it. The G21 is pretty much even with it, not a fan of the grip angle at all, BUT I like everything else on that one too. The FNP is kind of a darkhorse, I think it seems like a fantastic gun but the low-ish price makes me wonder. Plus there isn't as much aftermarket support for it as the first 2. The gun itself though seems like it would fit me like a glove. I love my Sig P220 but I want more capacity in my next gun.

For these reasons, the USP is the frontrunner though theres plenty to not like about it, 60 dollar magazines especially.

hawkass13
March 18, 2010, 01:32 PM
Here's a pic of mine.
http://www.nordom.net/hawkass13/013.jpg
She shoots great. It is a para frame with colt slide. It takes P-14 mags, which I recently discovered are expensive. Otherwise it eats whatever i feed it and has a sweet trigger.

dom1104
March 18, 2010, 01:33 PM
the CZ 97 is double stack.

You got the EAA witness, Kimber used to have a Ten II gun, I would think the M&P would have been mentioned before now yes?

I did not know about the Springfield either that is interesting.

If I was going for a double stack 45 I think I would probably save my pennies and go for some sort of race gun. STI or what have you.

If the M&P was ruled out for some reason. If not M&P all the way.

NG VI
March 18, 2010, 01:44 PM
The FNP is kind of a darkhorse, I think it seems like a fantastic gun but the low-ish price makes me wonder. Plus there isn't as much aftermarket support for it as the first 2.

You don't want to spend too much, but the reasonable price of an FNP concerns you?

Just curious, other than magazines and holsters (FNP comes with three magazines, brilliant) and maybe night sights, what else would you expect to want to do to a poly framed service auto?

The FNPs have a really smooth trigger, I always liked that about mine, and the sights they have are superb. They are very clear, visible, and low profile. I haven't used sights I liked better, except for the all black ones on my S&W 28-2.

boricua9mm
March 18, 2010, 02:25 PM
Don't fight it. Treat yourself and get the HK!

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/132/132726/pages/1099490/DSC00502.JPG

twice barrel
March 18, 2010, 02:57 PM
Somewhere in my owners manual (pamphlet) for my RIA Tactical it references a 1911A1 as single stack and A2 as double stack. Is this a standard?

TB

THplanes
March 18, 2010, 08:41 PM
The M&P and the EAA Witness are not true double stack guns as a result the magazines are only 10 rounds. Taurus full size have a 12 round capacity.

W.E.G.
March 18, 2010, 08:52 PM
I had a Para Ordnance.

Nice looking gun, functioned 100%.

Except that 50% of the time it threw the spent cases back at my face.
Modified the ejector. Still threw cases at me.
Got rid of it.

c919
March 18, 2010, 09:07 PM
How about an M&P? I have the .45c and it's awesome. I'm not so sure about it being "compact", but it's a great gun.

S&Wfan
March 19, 2010, 12:25 AM
I've got a Para high capacity P14 variant, a P14.45 Limited with ambi safety and Para's Bomar-type target rear sight. The auto is a few years old now (2003).

I've shot 1911s for years, as well as S&W revolvers and the LDA trigger is a lot like a Smith double action trigger pull . . . or so they say.

Nice gun . . . different, in a um . . . DIFFERENT way. I kind of like it!

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/282194/2438813IMG1173w1.jpg

rklessdriver
March 19, 2010, 09:53 AM
Last year at a WMA range in GA, I shot a local fellows Kimber poly framed double stack. They were made by BUL in Israel. Too big for my hands but it was an accurate and nicely built pistol.

Will

ForumSurfer
March 19, 2010, 10:44 AM
I have a couple I'm thinking of getting rid of actually. The para is my favorite of these two. It's 100% reliable and ridiculously accurate for it's size. Brand new extractor, wolf springs and 500 rounds through it to test out the new parts and extractor fitment. I almost hate to get rid of the para as it is one sweet shooter. The extra heft and thickness caused by the double stack nature seems to soak up recoil. With rosewood grips it isn't too bad looking, either. The kimber is just a nice shooter all around. I don't dislike anything about it, I just don't love it. I do like being able to spend less time reloading when I target practice compared to my regular 8 shot 1911 mags.

I like the idea of a double stack 45, but it's just too thick for anything short of open carry on the 1911(ish) platform.

Here are internet pics.
http://www.adlinda.com/kimber1.jpghttp://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/f3/Para_Ordinance_P-12_45.jpg/350px-Para_Ordinance_P-12_45.jpg

They just aren't for me. Maybe someone with a larger frame that could actually conceal them without a trench coat.

I'll keep all of my future 45's in single stack metal and wood, and my plastic wonders in 357, 9 or 40 thank you very much. :neener:

MachIVshooter
March 19, 2010, 01:44 PM
The M&P and the EAA Witness are not true double stack guns as a result the magazines are only 10 rounds.

If you want to get technical about it, neither is any other handgun, save the Grendel P30/Kel-Tec PMR-30.

They were kept to 10 rounds to maintain a smaller grip circumference, though there are 14 round M&P mags that extend slightly below the grip.

CWL
March 19, 2010, 01:51 PM
I have a Para P-13, been worked-on but still unreliable for self defense IMO. Gotta be fanatical about changing mag springs.

My Wilson Combat KZ45 is reliable and unbelievably accurate. Just don't like the doublestack grip in .45ACP. If you have big hands, this is worth considering.

If I were to get another plastic, I'd choose the M&P.

TG13
March 20, 2010, 03:25 AM
RIA 1911-A2 is a double stack 45.. i think it can use Para's mags too..

Beretta PX4..

STI 2011..

Caspian Arms..

ENTREPRISE ARMS TACTICAL 500..

SVI Infinity..

IMI Baby Eagle/Jericho/EAA Witness/Tangfolio/CZ

1KPerDay
March 21, 2010, 03:03 AM
If you can find a used, standard Para-Ordnance P13-45 or 14-45 they can be had quite reasonably. I've had 2, a standard stainless 14 and my current P14-45 Limited. Both very reliable and great shooters. sold the stainless as it had a few scratches that I didn't put there and it bothered me (I'm weird that way). The grip frame is wide but comfy (for me) to shoot. The grip panels are quite thin. Some have been burned by Para and won't try another but I've had great luck with mine. (both were Canadian made, mid-90s ones).

railroader
March 21, 2010, 10:38 AM
Here's my double stack. It's a Charles Daley DDA. The mags it use are 10 rounders. I have heard they can use the early kimber 1911 13 rounders. Mark

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/bul_impact.jpg

FTSESQ
April 5, 2010, 12:25 AM
I have a Plain Jane Para-Ord P14. She ain't real purdy, but she shoots! Super reliable- eats anything you can jam into a mag. Never a hiccup. Accurate as heck- much more accurate than a bare bones 1911 has any right to be. With good ammo (she likes 200gr semi wadcutters) 2" 25yd groups are doable with care. Like I said, not too pretty, but she preforms.

All that aside, If you want a double stack 45, the HK USP45 is a phenomenal weapon. I can't speak highly enough of them.

Nasty
April 5, 2010, 06:55 AM
Bersa Ultra Compact 45 in the now discontinued stainless...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=118601&d=1269795465

jmr40
April 5, 2010, 07:53 AM
Without those four there is not much to talk about

Cody Banks
May 17, 2010, 11:52 PM
AcceptableUserName (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=93643) said:
Seems like the high-capacity .45 is a newer concept and an acquired taste because of grip size.

That is a total wives tale. I have 4 1911's in .45 acp. The circumference at the magwell is as follows, Colt officers acp, 5 3/8" Citadel, 5 3/8" Metro arms American Classic II, 6.0" and Springfield Armory PW9701LP double stack 14+1, 5 3/4".

The hi capacity is right between the other mil spec 1911's, no larger, and no smaller.
The measurement I made was at the base of the grip, so mains spring housing can alter the size. This case the Springer, AC2, and Colt had flat MSH, while the Citadel has an arched polymer MSH.
I have attempted to buy a new trigger for the hi cap and they are just neglected by the aftermarket vendors. I am trying an STI SV 2011 trigger with a long curve, it's in the mail. I have big mits, and my son also, who I consulted before ordering the new trigger.
I modded the Springer with beavertail Grip safety, skeletonized commander hammer, extended slidestop, trigger job, including wilson combat sear brought the trigger pull down to 3Lb12Oz, and smoooth.
I havent found too many aftermarket grips, again due to prejudgment by the 1911 community. I dont understand it, because the shooting world loves the XD and glocks, in hi cap. Oh and did I mention that since I lightened the trigger pull, it came with 7 LBs and gritty, the springer is the most accurate of all 4 of my 1911's.
It sports P-14 mec-gar mags and I feel they are suitable for carry duty. The mags are very heads up and feed hydra shoks as well as round ball ammo 100% so far.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_j-fyXu7QUbo/S_BmIWAAHQI/AAAAAAAAARY/sAF7_R1K1aE/GS%20park.jpg

Just my .02


thank you.

DHart
May 18, 2010, 03:47 AM
I'm a fan of wide body 1911/2011 pistols. I have a Springfield GI in .45 that John Harrison really sweetened up for me...

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_rt.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_lft.jpg

and an STI Edge, albeit in .40 cal...

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/STI%20Edge/Edge_1284.jpg

Recoil is very soft in both of these guns due to weight and the large contact area with the hand. They are luxuriously comfortable to shoot.

DammitBoy
May 18, 2010, 04:30 AM
I've had a Para P14 for 21 years now as my standard carry. No misfires or issues ever.

I love the feel of the wide body as the 1911 frame always seemed to skinny for me.

Avenger29
May 18, 2010, 04:50 AM
Somewhere in my owners manual (pamphlet) for my RIA Tactical it references a 1911A1 as single stack and A2 as double stack. Is this a standard?

No. It's gibberish they either made up or copied from someone else. The doublestack 1911s don't really have anything to do with any "standards".

schmeky
May 18, 2010, 11:05 AM
DHart,

Whoa !! That Custom Springer is gorgeous. I like, I like a lot :o

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 12:33 PM
that is a black beauty, I see from the frame it is pre Imbel. Its odd that my serial is also a WW since my pistol is an Imbel frame. Although my serial has one more digit. I love the sights, are they Novak cut dovetails? That is one of the things I will be leaving GI on my pistol. I just want the option of returning it to stock if I do so choose.
I think there are enough makes and models of 1911 pistols out there, there is room for all.
Why do the mere mention of a doublestack 1911 bring out all the emotions in some of our fellow enthusiasts?
Enjoy, live and let live.
When S&W went from the model 39-2 and added the model 59, I don't recall any reaction other than admiration at the added option. Yet these few, and I mean sparse, makers of the widebody seem to get the reaction Dr. Frankenstein must have felt.
I think my next mod, which arrives tomorrow, will be an asset to the look I am seeking. I am installing a STI-SV 2011 black, long curve trigger on the GI.
Not that the GI solid shoe trigger doesn't do it's job, but the lightened trigger will match the grip safety and hammer in the upgrade and looks good too.

easyg
May 18, 2010, 12:54 PM
That is a total wives tale. I have 4 1911's in .45 acp. The circumference at the magwell is as follows, Colt officers acp, 5 3/8" Citadel, 5 3/8" Metro arms American Classic II, 6.0" and Springfield Armory PW9701LP double stack 14+1, 5 3/4".

The hi capacity is right between the other mil spec 1911's, no larger, and no smaller.
But what are the lengths of the grips?

Let's be honest here, there's only several ways to increase capacity in a .45ACP 1911....

Make the magazine and grip fatter.
Make the magazine and grip longer.
Make the magazine itself thinner.
Make the grip portion of the frame itself thinner.
Or a combination of one or more of the first four methods.

It seems that most makers don't want to make the frame itself thinner (maybe due to safety concerns).
And most makers don't want to make the magazine thinner (they are already very thin).
So most makers choose to make the magazine and the grip fatter, or the magazine and the grip longer.

Does your double-stack 1911 magazine fit in your single-stack 1911?
Or is it too fat to fit?


Easy

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 01:27 PM
But what are the lengths of the grips?

it uses standard grip safety, standard main spring housing, so the length of the grip is 4" approx.
It is a combination of things that give it the space needed to fit the staggered mag in the frame. There are no bushings, and the grips are very thin.
Although the circumference might be the same, the front strap is wide. It does feel larger in the hand, no doubt.
I don't claim to like the doublestack for a special purpose. At the range, I only load 5 rounds in my mags, with the singlestack or the doublestack. I just wanted one because it was a good looking weapon, and the price was right.
Now, I have started shooting it and it has a different feel than my other 1911's. It is heavy, but if you are going to carry it, and are knocking it for the weight, you have to take all the weight of the pistol, and mags into consideration, on the belt.
If you carry 2 mags, and one pistol of standard 1911, with mag and one in the tube, what does that weigh at total of 25 rds.

If you carry a doublestack with mag and one in the tube, plus one mag in pouch equals 29 rds. what does that weigh?

On the belt, that is the weight you need to look at, because you are going to feel it.
I don't want to dredge up all the emotions I spoke of, which I will guaraantee is going to happen. You have to ask yourself honestly, are you a potential candidate for a firefight. Are you going to need to defend yourself and family at an outing to the city, when you break down in a bad area. Do you want to start counting rounds, and maybe not take an extra shot, just to give your kid an extra second to get in the car, because you are going to have to do a reload.
I think the benefit of a hi cap, whether it's a glock sig or XD is during the run and gun. Stopping to reload gives your opposition an opportunity, and not having to stop and reload, gives you the opportunity.

I like my Sig P226, I sold a model 39-2 to get it. When I heard mec-gar made a 18 round flush fit mag, I bought one. It is still in the package. The stock sig mags (which are mec-gar) hold 15 rounds. But why not have 18?
Its the same thing.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_j-fyXu7QUbo/S-YMIwGXAkI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/s2393f7Kf-I/s512/sig%20holster.jpg
Only the 1911 brings out this debate,Lets move on.



Thank you, and have a nice day.

easyg
May 18, 2010, 03:05 PM
Off Topic...

Hey Cody, Do you ever worry about that holster not covering the trigger so well with the Sig cocked like that?

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 03:27 PM
I would never carry the Sig like that, I took that picture for a holster
thread. its double action, I would'nt carry it cocked.
that holster is from W.Germany. it is weird, made by sig, for sigs, but it doesn't make sense. The snap is in the wrong direction, and under the flap in the pic,the other side of the snap isn't connected to the holster, just a one inch section of leather. I am going to redo the snap, and cut off the piece under the flap.http://lh6.ggpht.com/_j-fyXu7QUbo/S_La8J3Xm-I/AAAAAAAAAR4/5irfRFjDIW0/sh.jpg
I think a screw in the center of the snap will secure it, then I won't have to cut the leather. They were giving these holsters away on sportsmansguide for $10.00 with a $10 buck coupon so it was free. Still weird.
I use a pancake cross draw for everything from my 1911, sig, even my Ruger mark II works in there. Love the pancakes.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_j-fyXu7QUbo/S9usz0HxphI/AAAAAAAAAP0/OXP6VSG--SM/pancake.jpg

jcello
May 18, 2010, 03:39 PM
I've got a Springer double stack. It's been a flawless performer since the day I got it no matter what load/bullet style I've fed it. It easily holds 4" at 25M. Paid $600 for it. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Now the cons. You had better love the pistol pretty much the way it comes. Parts for single column will fit if you're looking for MSHs, beavertails, or safeties. (Any slide parts for single stacks will obviously work.) Grips, triggers, mag releases...you're out of luck. Parts for the Para don't fit the Springer. I had to make my own grips to replace the awful plastic crap that came on the gun. I have a set of Trijicon sights on it, as the ones from the factory are pretty much there just to say it comes with sights.

My biggest gripe about the weapon is the finish. I think they used latex paint on the thing, as the finish started peeling off as soon as I got it. I had the slide reblued (or actually probably blued for the first time) when I had the sights installed. I'm going to be putting a beavertail on it, and will have the frame refinished when I'm done with that.

All that said, by the time I get the pistol the way I want it, I'll have around $1,200.00 in it. Not bad considering it will be exactly how I want it for the same price as most loaded single stacks. But having 15 in the gun and 14 in one spare mag makes me rest real easy when I'm walking around with it.

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 03:53 PM
I paid 600 for mine too. I did a lot of mods, my pic is down below. I just put a beavertail and a hammer on it, and I'm crossing my fingers on a trigger i ordered, that's coming tomorrow.
I've spent a lot of hours searching for pictures of SA doubles that have put triggers in and i think the STI will work. The low sights were useless as is, but I put the same sight enhancements as the Sig I have, and it really made a difference. As I said in an earlier post, I worked the sear and hammer, with a cylinder and slide light sear spring, and the pull is great now. It made the pistol much more controllable. The 7 LB stock pull was making me pull to the left one inch at 30 ft, now Im dead on 1" groups at 35 ft., resting on the bench of course.
Truth be known, I think I would redo my purchase, and get a black stainless loaded model. They are $780. + 20 shipping all the time at Northern Firearms.
But, I haven't really spent that much, and it is great to have 15 in the gun. I prefer the full size to a XD, and wanted to get into the Springfield Armory line. I had looked at Mil-spec in OD green, but I didn't like it as much as the black. I haven't had any paint issues yet, but I don't carry the springer yet.

Dream gun= TRP in black armory kote.

Boberama
May 18, 2010, 04:03 PM
It has never been clear to me why increased magazine capacity in a defensive pistol is particularly choice. The bigger the magazine the bigger the gun, and the bigger the gun the harder it is to get hold of for people with small hands. And what, pray, does one need all those rounds for? How many lethal antagonists do you think you are going to be able to handle? Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce's answer was, "Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot." The highest score I know of at this time achieved by one man against a group of armed adversaries was recorded in (of all places) the Ivory Coast! There, some years ago, a graduate student of mine laid out five goblins, with four dead and one totaled for the hospital. Of course there is the episode of Alvin York and his eight, but there is some dispute about that tale. (If you read it over very carefully you will see what I mean.) Be that as it may, I see no real need for a double column magazine. It is all the rage, of course, and like dual air bags, it is a popular current sales gimmick.

-Jeff Cooper

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 04:11 PM
as i predicted, here they come. I have big hands, sorry if you don't, get a PPK

DHart
May 18, 2010, 04:36 PM
To answer your questions... started originally as a basic GI wide body .45acp with sights which were close to useless, especially under dimmer lighting conditions.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Springfield%201911s/SAHiCap_lft.jpg

Basically, this was done:
Novak night sights
Ed Brown arched MSH
High hold Beavertail grip safety
Custom shaped combat style low profile, single-sided thumb safety
All premium machined tool steel fire control components, slide stop, etc.
KART barrel
Slide flats ground and polished
DLC IonBond Black finish (extremely durable)

The gun gobbled .45 when stock and still does. But with these great sights, especially, it's much nicer to shoot. I use MecGar nickel plated 13-round mags with extra power Wolff mag springs. These are such nice, soft shooters. The weight and hand-filling grip make the .45acp felt recoil seem like a 9mm. Standard 1911s grip frames do seem a bit on the "thin" side to me now. ;) I prefer a lighter, smaller gun for EDC, but this is a great defense gun otherwise. Having 14 rounds of .45acp on tap is comforting.

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 05:46 PM
magnanimous,
I think am going to dump that safety lock, it's real hard to take off safe, and rough on the thumb. I put a stainless barstock thumb safety (black) checkerd on my other 1911, I think I'll order another one for the springer. I have the matching slidestop on there now, it looks and works good. Black stainless.
Im not planning on touching the sights, theres not many options, without cutting the dovetails. Even putting mil-spec sights I have to stake in the front. I just replaced the rear sights on my Colt last week, when I bought the beavertail at midway Ihad a coupon so i decided to buy the white dot colt sights for 12.00 and use the 10.00 coupon. no brainer.
Those colt sights from the factory crushed like aluminum. I dont know why, they got smacked against a wall a few years ago, and just mashed in on the corner. When I rolled the metal up with my finger, it just crumbled off. ???***

The new sights are steel and went right in, perfect. left to right, nice and tight.

jcello
May 18, 2010, 07:09 PM
Cody, where did you order the trigger from? I can't find anything, and have been told by Brownell's that the Para triggers don't work. This would be a great find!

Cody Banks
May 18, 2010, 07:10 PM
http://www.1911store.com/2011triggersti-longcurve.aspx
http://www.1911store.com/ProductImages/31-061l.jpg

jcello
May 18, 2010, 07:52 PM
Let me know if this fits and works. Thanks.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
May 18, 2010, 09:37 PM
I picked this up for 489 out the door functions flawlessly the mags are a little tough to push all 14rds in at first but they have already loosened. up Just an fyi para mags need minor tweeking to work in the RIA but RIA sell the mags for 21.95 on their sight so why waste the money on the para mags that run 30$+ . Pics of the original and then pics of the grips I refinished. I also have a set of Pearce grips for the para that I modified to fit pic to follow http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/homedepotgeorge/DSCN1206.jpg http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/homedepotgeorge/DSCN1208.jpg

pacerdude
May 18, 2010, 09:49 PM
The Smith and Wesson M&P 45.

WRGADog
May 19, 2010, 07:23 PM
I keep this gun in the center console of my truck at all times with 4 additional magazines.

DHart
May 19, 2010, 07:28 PM
G30sf
I keep this gun in the center console of my truck at all times with 4 additional magazines.

The G30 is a great weapon.... absolutely tops. I love mine. Favorite Glock. Raylin Givens on Justified seems to like his quite a bit as well! ;)

11 rounds of soft-shooting, totally-reliable, wonderfully-accurate .45acp goodness in a fairly compact package.

NMGonzo
May 19, 2010, 07:49 PM
Side to side grip picture?

Would it be much wider or just a bit wider?

Imagine having double stack .45 super ... that would be a LOT of firepower!

Cody Banks
May 19, 2010, 11:10 PM
STI 2011 Polymer trigger, long curve.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_j-fyXu7QUbo/S_R_LrK8EcI/AAAAAAAAASA/BFvuNeZIHL4/sasti2.jpg

Flintknapper
May 20, 2010, 12:04 AM
My Para (P13). Bought new in 1995, has about a bazillion rounds through it. Utterly reliable (with fresh springs). It has been my Concealed Carry weapon for 13 yrs.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/P-13.jpg

NO..."MIM" parts in this baby.

DammitBoy
May 20, 2010, 01:52 AM
Nice Para flintknapper!

My only regret about my Para is I can't get a crimson trace for it... :(

71Commander
May 20, 2010, 09:48 AM
I see many replies about double stack being too wide. If you measure em, you will find that they are 1.250 wide, same as a single stack 1911 with stock grips. I have STI's. The Para's might be a tad wider, but not much. The circumference is greater but that shouldn't be a carry issue.

My STI Edge in .45

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/sti-edge.jpg

Flintknapper
May 20, 2010, 11:33 AM
Agreed ,

They are indeed greater in circumference….but NOT necessarily wider than some single stacks (with thick grips).

My Para….compared to my Kimber:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/P13comp1.jpg


If you compare my Para to the Kimber Ultra Carry….you’ll see that they are virtually identical in nearly all respects….except barrel length (Para is 4”, Kimber 3”).

But, I get 13 rounds of 45 acp with the Para (roughly twice the capacity of the Kimber).


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/P13comp5.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/P13comp2.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/P13comp4.jpg

andre73
May 20, 2010, 02:19 PM
PT-845 is 12+1 of .45 ACP. I like mine...

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
May 20, 2010, 02:51 PM
Here's the Rock Island Hi Cap with the Pearce grips http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/homedepotgeorge/DSCN1232.jpg

msg2020
November 2, 2010, 06:13 PM
I have a CUSTOM PARA ORDNANCE P14 45 HICAP LDA double stack 14+1rd magazines
ordering some smith&alexander double diamond wood grips and fish scale front strap
and fish scale serrate on the sides of the slide and fish scale mainspring housing
that's how much i love my Para Ordnance p14 45 lda hicap thanks

CDR_Glock
November 2, 2010, 08:38 PM
that are NOT named USP, Xd, G21 or FNP.


Were there any that could be had for cheap made in years past? Seems like the high-capacity .45 is a newer concept and an acquired taste because of grip size.

I had a Para ordnance from 1995. Double stack 1911. It was a great gun. FNH also has a double stack 45 ACP.

bds
November 2, 2010, 09:52 PM
that are NOT named USP, Xd, G21 or FNP.
M&P45 can be had with factory 14 round magazines.

Taurus PT145 with 10 round double stack and comes close to Glock 27 in size.

Another bonus, if you don't like the fat grips of double stack 45s, these two have small enough grip that my wife's small hands feel and shoot comfortable with.

Zerodefect
November 2, 2010, 11:04 PM
Why do they put grip panels on the double stack 2011's???

Why not just checker the frame all the way around, or use a very thin aluminum grip like Alumagrips but thinner just for 2011's?

Seems bulky and unnessasary to put rubber grips on such an allready fat frame.

I wish they would round the frames edges so the bulges weren't so pronounced. Some of those would look ok with sime reallt thin fabricated Al grips and a carry melt treatment.

-10 for all the darn billboards.

WRGADog
November 3, 2010, 11:42 PM
10 +1 of 45 ACP. Great little gun and fits my hand much better than G21. Also, the XDm, as opposed to the XD, is a great gun 13 +1 rounds.

jeepmor
November 4, 2010, 12:21 AM
My PT145 is 10+1 with a 3" barrel. Nice little gun, runs real good, so I keep carrying it.

bartman06
November 4, 2010, 01:16 PM
I've owned a glock 21and a glock 30 and own a M&P 45. The M&P is like a 1 and a half stack.
I love it. I'd like to try CZ's 45. If you want to get a 1911 double stack there are tons and you will just have to look.
Beretta has a 45.
Tarsus has a 45.
That's all i can think of.

Carolina Drifter
November 4, 2010, 08:21 PM
My P14 45 LTD ain't going nowhere but the range.

Dr.Rob
November 5, 2010, 06:34 AM
BUL was the first polymer hi-cap 1911 and they were inexpensive, though I haven't seen a 'long term' report on one yet.

EAA witness is just an up-sized CZ75, and they supposedly work great.

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