Range report on my Marlin 1895 using Beartooth 405 LFN/GC bullets


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Ridgerunner665
March 21, 2010, 12:54 PM
I'm battered and bruised (busted lip and a sore shoulder)...but I'm happy as can be.


Only 4 rounds because I was running low on ammo when I finally made it out to the 100 yard line, I hate sighting in open sights...takes too much concentration (exact sight picture).

I was holding 1 inch below the black square in the center...I wanted to make sure I got a group, and I thought maybe they would be higher than they were. I have read that the Skinner sights won't always go low enough to get on target at 100 yards. Mine is screwed all the way down.

3 inches high at 100 yards was my goal...I'm glad it worked out without needing another front sight.

These were the last 4 of 20 rounds fired...so I'm confident now that I don't have any barrel leading issues.

Average velocity for 20 rounds...1,886 fps (same as the previous ones)
ES...21 fps

Sorry for the dark pic...the calipers say 1.508", so thats a 1.05" group...Fired prone off a backpack at 100 yards with Skinner receiver mounted peep rear sight and factory front sight.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/132_3227-1.jpg

Thanks are in order...to Rowdy on MarlinOwners forum for his help on getting me started with cast bullets at rifle velocities.

I'm now loaded and ready for anything walking the planet...and unless its at a trophy elk, bear, deer, etc. at extended range....I will never again fire this rifle from the prone position.

Final load specs: This is a 38,000 psi load per QuickLoad and the resulting velocity...not for use in Trapdoor rifles

405 Beartooth LFN/GC
50 grains of H322 (every charge weighed on a 505)
Remington brass trimmed to 2.095"
CCI BR2 primer
OAL crimped in the crimp groove...2.555" (seated to 2.558", which is to the top of the crimp groove, then crimped on an RCBS die in a separate operation, heavily crimped)

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conhntr
March 21, 2010, 04:51 PM
wow; great combo. im in the market for an 1895 just holding out for a decent price on an used one!

1858
March 21, 2010, 08:36 PM
Ridgerunner665, that's some fine shooting I must say. I'm amazed that you can even see where you're aiming with that target though, particularly at 100 yards. Seriously, you can make out the small black square clearly enough to know that you're holding 1" below it? You must have a 20:10 prescription or something. I can't even shoot that well with either of my '95's and both have 1.5-5x scopes on them. Good shooting and good load data. 1,886 fps sure is moving and it may explain the busted lip. I'm getting about 1,800 fps with the 24" barrel, 48.5gr of VV N130, Remington 405gr JSP, CCI 200 primers and Starline brass.

:)

conhntr
March 21, 2010, 08:50 PM
1858 how does the 405gr remmy hold up going that fast? isnt the factory load about 1300fps?

1858
March 21, 2010, 09:06 PM
1858 how does the 405gr remmy hold up going that fast? isnt the factory load about 1300fps?

I haven't shot any animals with it if that's what you mean, but the jacket remains intact out to 100 yards ... that much I'm sure of. There are some very good hunting related reviews for the bullet on Midway ....

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601214242

I plan on ordering some 430gr gas checked solids from Oregon Trail to work up a hunting load with a powder that's easier to find than VV N-130. Maybe I'll try H322 like Ridgerunner665.

Remington lists the MV of their factory 405gr load at 1,330 fps, according to Midway anyway ...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=376119

:)

conhntr
March 21, 2010, 09:12 PM
well i guess that the bullet perfomance (on deer anyway) doesnt really matter with a 405 gr at 1800+fps

was just curious becuase that is so much faster than it was designed for

Ridgerunner665
March 21, 2010, 09:43 PM
1858,
Its not about the lil black square...its about getting the sight picture (view through the peep) the same, and I mean EXACTLY the same for each shot.

I wear glasses, but I can see the paper plenty clear enough at 100 yards to guess where the black square is.

It helps to post the target on something that offers a lot of color contrast...

The busted lip....was a result of not holding the fore arm and just letting the barrel lay across the back pack, needless to say, it "jumped" a bit when I fired. Lesson learned, this ain't no 10 pound .308 Win.

1858
March 21, 2010, 09:48 PM
Well, however you're doing it, that's mighty fine shooting. I have back up XS ghost ring sights on both '95s so there's no way in Hades that I could get those groups at 100 yards. I'd be happy if I could hit an 8" paper plate at that range!

:)

Ridgerunner665
March 21, 2010, 09:52 PM
Thank You,

Practice and concentration, thats how I do it...somewhere on this forum I have a pic of a 600 yard group I fired with an iron sighted AR15. (the target was a Cadillac hood, with a piece of paper taped in the center of it...hitting the hood is easy, getting the sight picture right to hit the paper in the center...not so much)

I've always liked peep sights.

Ridgerunner665
March 21, 2010, 10:01 PM
The Remington 405's won't hold together on game (bone) if loaded over 1,600 fps or so...even then I wouldn't trust them for anything with teeth and claws.

In the factory loads @ 1,330...they do fine.

conhntr
March 21, 2010, 10:07 PM
thats what i was thinking ridgerunner/

1858
March 21, 2010, 10:24 PM
The Remington 405's won't hold together on game (bone) if loaded over 1,600 fps or so...even then I wouldn't trust them for anything with teeth and claws. In the factory loads @ 1,330...they do fine.

Although I'd rather hunt with a solid such as the OT bullet mentioned above, there are plenty of accounts of one-shot kills on everything from deer to buffalo using the 405gr Rem JSP at velocities from 1,500 fps to 2,000 fps. Some folks use them in .458 Win Mags with excellent results. Remington may have chosen to load the 405gr to 1,330 fps for reasons other than bullet integrity.

For example:

Donald Watkins of Danielsville, PA
Date posted: 3/27/2009
I've owned several 45/70 rifles over the years, but for some reason hadn't tried these bullets until this past winter. I found them to have better accuracy than anything else I've ever tried and I've tried quite a few over the years. I loaded them 1600FPS using Remington cases, WLR primers and IMR 3031 powder. I used them on a recent buffalo hunt and dropped a buffalo with just one shot which left no blood shot meat. The guide said he had never before seen a buffalo drop so quickly. These are all I'll use for any big game from now on.

Do you (Ridgerunner665 or conhntr) have personal experience with this bullet coming apart on you? Do you have a source that explicitly states that the jacket WILL separate from the core on impact at velocities over X fps?

Just curious.

:)

conhntr
March 21, 2010, 10:33 PM
Do you (Ridgerunner665 or conhntr) have personal experience with this bullet coming apart on you? Do you have a source that explicitly states that the jacket WILL separate from the core on impact at velocities over X fps?

Just curious.

//
uh i just asked, i dont see you why need to do that smarty pants

1858
March 21, 2010, 10:39 PM
HUH!! I'm just asking too. I've got no idea if I could use the 405gr at 1,800 fps on an elk hunt. Since I've spent time (and money) working up loads, it'd be good to know whether or not they'd be effective on such an animal.

Since you and Ridgerunner are both either stating or implying that the 405gr shouldn't be pushed faster than 1,300 fps, it's reasonable that I should ask you to explain your position or provide data to back up those statements!

:)

conhntr
March 21, 2010, 10:53 PM
here lets start over then with my first post

"1858 how does the 405gr remmy hold up going that fast? isnt the factory load about 1300fps? "

Ridgerunner665
March 22, 2010, 01:52 PM
1858,

I have killed a few deer and a couple of black bears using the Remington 405 bullet...but all those loads were barely stronger than factory loads (mine were 1,450 fps). Its a good, cheap, bulk bullet...often very accurate too.

But...the makers of 45-70 "specialty" ammo (+P) stopped using that bullet due to many complaints of bullet failure (jacket loss and lack of penetration)

That bullet is designed to work at standard 45-70 velocities...in a 458 Win Mag, it would behave much like a varmint bullet.

I have witnessed the jacket separation but only in wet phone books (1,600 fps)

If you insist on that bullet for elk...I think backing it down to at least 1,650 fps would be a good idea, but thats just me and my limited experience...why risk an elk hunt? Premium cast bullets are not that expensive either...

Ridgerunner665
March 24, 2010, 12:09 AM
One thing 1858,


If you do choose to back your load down to 1,600 or so...H322 is not the ideal powder....guys more experienced than me swear that it isn't much good unless you have a high load density (at least a full case, compressed is better)

1858
March 24, 2010, 12:39 AM
Ridgerunner665,
Thanks for the information re the Rem 405gr JSP. What powder would you recommend for 1,350 to 1,450 fps? I only use VV N-130 because I bought 2lb (and 4lb of N-120) all for $19/lb that were sitting on the shelf at a local store for months. I'll look for some H322 powder and order some 430gr FP GC TrueShot bullets from Oregon Trail. 250 runs about $110 delivered. Since they'll be for hunting, I don't plan on shooting a whole bunch of 'em. I'll work up a load and save the rest for real work.

:)

Ridgerunner665
March 24, 2010, 08:10 AM
Either one of the 4198's or H4895, even IMR 3031 for loads just a tad hotter (appx. 1500-1600)

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