7x57 vs. 7-08


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Kentucky_Rifleman
March 22, 2010, 01:24 PM
I'm a simple guy. I like the older classic cartridges. Can anyone explain why the 7mm-08 is gaining popularity while the 7x57 Mauser seems to be losing ground? I'm a huge fan of the 7x57, and I can load faster for the Mauser than I can for the 08 incarnation. Aside from the availability of surplus .308 brass for reforming, what gives? I don't get it. Worse yet, every gun maker going seems to be cranking out the 08 rifles, but no one is making a domestic 7x57 bolt gun. This aggravates me.

KR

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Mr_Pale_Horse
March 22, 2010, 01:27 PM
I can load faster for the Mauser than I can for the 08 . . .but you can't buy it. American ammo makers will not load it to its potential (or the 8x57 for that matter).

R.W.Dale
March 22, 2010, 01:33 PM
Or anything else "metric" for that matter

One mark I've discovered against 7x57 is that even in commercial guns chambers seem to be rather loose resulting in shorter brass life.

And then there's the infatuation with the concept of "short action" cartridges and guns

Maverick223
March 22, 2010, 02:40 PM
American ammo makers will not load it to its potential (or the 8x57 for that matter).There's your problem. The 7mm-08 is on the heels of the factory loaded 7x57mm, but only because of the poor loading, which in turn makes the venerable, old 7mmMauser less popular. The best option for a cartridge that is where the 7x57mm really should be is the .280Rem. and unfortunately there is limited availability for that chambering as well. :banghead:

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 22, 2010, 02:52 PM
Do that few people really reload? I learned reloading and shooting together from my Dad. The two were always inseparable to me. Dad picked new calibers based on what he could reload them to do and how difficult components were to come by. When I started shooting centerfire rifles and pistols, Dad taught me how to reload at the same time, so I started reloading around age 9 or 10. Mind you, he checked my work and I worked at the same reloading bench as he did so he could keep an eye on me.

I guess I always think about what a cartridge is capable of, not what the factories load them to do.

That said, the lack of American factory bolt actions in 7x57 or 8x57 still aggravates me. Those two and the .222 are my favorite cartridges, and all of them are going the way of the dodo, and there's no good reason for it.

KR

Maverick223
March 22, 2010, 03:01 PM
Do that few people really reload?Depends upon whom you ask...here at THR plenty of people handload...back in the "real world" there are few reloaders.

:)

jimmyraythomason
March 22, 2010, 03:07 PM
Do that few people really reload? I don't reload and I don't know anyone who reloads either. I have owned(and still do) plenty of 7x57,7mm-08 as well as .280 Remington. I love them all but if pushed to pick a favorite it would be the 7x57 hands down. Under 200 yards you can't tell the difference.

ArmedBear
March 22, 2010, 03:18 PM
And then there's the infatuation with the concept of "short action" cartridges and guns

In some guns, a short action makes sense. In a Model 70 Featherweight, I figure the 7mm-08 is just about the perfectly-balanced cartridge.

One way or another, the x57mm case has never been overly popular in the US. After WW II, many a surplus Mauser was rebarreled, or even just reamed out to 8mm-06.

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 22, 2010, 03:41 PM
I don't reload and I don't know anyone who reloads either. I have owned(and still do) plenty of 7x57,7mm-08 as well as .280 Remington.

Jimmy Ray, can we negotiate a price on that old useless brass you're accumulating? :D

KR

jimmyraythomason
March 22, 2010, 03:44 PM
Jimmy Ray, can we negotiate a price on that old useless brass you're accumulating? I don't save my brass since neither I nor any of my friends reload(no accumulated brass). I have been considering learning to reload for my .257 Roberts Mauser 98. If I do I may have a use for those 7x57 cases.

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 22, 2010, 03:47 PM
I can see the practicality of the 8-06. You ream the chamber of a surplus rifle and have access to a rifle that's easy to find brass for AND has more pizazz than the original. I suppose one could ream an old Mauser to 7-06 (call it 280 if you like), but the older Mauser actions might get bad indigestion on the beefier 06 loads.

On a similar footnote, does anyone know if Ruger ever brought out the M77 in 8x57? I didn't know they'd offered it in 7x57 until I stumbled on one a couple of weeks back. I sure do like the M77 in 7x57, and would love to add the big brother to my little collection.

KR

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 22, 2010, 03:49 PM
I don't save my brass since neither I nor any of my friends reload(no accumulated brass). I have been considering learning to reload for my .257 Roberts Mauser 98. If I do I may have a use for those 7x57 cases.

Sure, sure. NOW you up and join the reloading fraternity. :cuss:

KR

jimmyraythomason
March 22, 2010, 03:51 PM
NOW you up and join the reloading fraternity. Haven't done it YET but I didn't realize just how hard it was to find a good selection of factory .257 Bob ammo. Great selection for the 7x57 though!

homers
March 22, 2010, 08:35 PM
I love my Ruger M77 with tang safety in 7x57 (I must thank my dad for buying it as my first deer gun way back when I was 16).

Cosmoline
March 22, 2010, 08:54 PM
I believe the big advantage of the 7x57 is its ability to chamber and stabilize extremely long bullets up to 190 grains. American shooters have been moving away from these to smaller, faster rounds. So there's no longer much advantage to the old 7x57

GMFWoodchuck
March 23, 2010, 12:31 PM
The reasoning behind the sucess (and preference from a manufacturer standpoint) of the 7mm-08 over the 7X57 is a simple one. All 7mm-08s can be loaded to modern day standards. The same can't be said for the 7x57. It's the reason the 450 marlin came into existence. Similar sized cartridge with the similar capacity as the 45-70 but loaded to modern day pressures. But the effect wasn't that great with the 450 only because the 45-70 was no snuff to begin with and kicked enough as it was. But the answer is the same.

earlthegoat2
March 23, 2010, 12:45 PM
It is unfortunate the 7x57 is fading from existence in America and it is sad to say but it is because surplus rifles are popular and they cannot take the loadings that the 7x57 should be loaded at to achieve its potential. I like the 7x57 too and I really dont like the 7mm-08 for the only reason that it will displace the 7x57. It is because it is a newer cartridge without a serious disadvantage like having a bunch of weaker Spanish mausers floating around to make ammo manufacturers load it down to those old levels to keep the lawyers away from them.

Mr_Pale_Horse
March 23, 2010, 03:15 PM
Sellier & Bellot (Czech Republic) make 9 different loadings of the 7x57. The cartridge will not die any time soon.

berettashotgun
March 23, 2010, 03:32 PM
Kentucky_Rifleman - you have received some answers to your question. Great replies.

A: The 7x57 is old school and wasn't in use very much with the American public for decades as was the 30-06. The known qualities of the old workhorse -06 are ingrained in almost every American living.

B: The buying public has it's favorites and the companies providing firearms to those people want to sell product.

C: Although the mauser round is better than the 7mm-08, this quality only exists in it's hybrid form - a re-loaded round. Off the shelf is no better and is also much harder for the majority of rifle owners to locate. It is a possibility the web might provide a resurgence for the mauser - but don't hold your breath.

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 23, 2010, 03:58 PM
I hadn't considered the short action argument, but I can see that. It's not as important to me personally, but I know some shooters just love the short action.

Since I reload, I don't typically think in terms of factory ammo. I almost always buy components and load my own stuff coming out of the gate, but the limp-load 7x57 ammo isn't as likely to blow up the older actions of some of the surplus rifles.

These things aside, I wonder why none of the factories ever offered 7x57 +P or some such distinction as they've done with other venerable underloaded cartridges like the .38 Special or the 9x19?

On a happier note, I went to my in-laws over the weekend and tried out my recently acquired M77 in 7x57, and it was very satisfactory. The in-laws live in Johnson County, near West Virginia, and my father-in-law and I haunt about a local pawn/gun shop "Poor Boys." When we dropped in after shooting, I happened upon 4 boxes of PMC 7x57 factory ammo. Under all the dust the boxes were labeled 13.00. :what: I bought all 4 boxes.

I might get to like being the only guy I know shooting the Mauser...

Maverick223
March 23, 2010, 04:17 PM
IME 7x57mm isn't super expensive, I usually see it for about $20.00/20, in the neighborhood of most other "deer capable" centerfire cartridges (.30-06, et al). That said, I wouldn't complain about $13.00/20 either.

:)

SaxonPig
March 23, 2010, 04:36 PM
IMO the 7x57 is one of the best cartridge designs ever produced. I think that I currently have 3 and have owned more over the years including one full-blown custom job built in 7x57.

Short action rifles are all the rage (note the proliferation of "short magnums" out there) and this may explain why the 7-08 is rising in popularity.

American ammo is not loaded as hot as European fodder. I have some German ammo made in 1970 that launches a 139 grain BT at an amazingly consistent 2,925 FPS (no more than 5 FPS variance). Loading your own is the way bring out the potential of this round.

Here are my 7s. Such a classic caliber deserves a classic platform.


http://www.fototime.com/302455ED57F79D2/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/E8CD1A8074154CD/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/2B252A97154B18D/standard.jpg

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 23, 2010, 04:44 PM
SaxonPig,

How do I find my way into your last will and testament? Would you like an adopted son? Nephew? I don't eat much. Really.

KR

MachIVshooter
March 23, 2010, 05:00 PM
IMO the 7x57 is one of the best cartridge designs ever produced.

Certainly one of the most efficient/best balanced.

As one might expect, given it's dimensions, I've found that it's performance is smack dab in the middle between the 7mm-08 and .280 Rem.

It would be my choice cartridge to build a nice custom sporter on a Mauser action.

However, for buying a practical, factory hunting rifle, I would opt for neither the 7mm-8 or the 7x57. I would go .280, and did for my sister. It outperforms both of the smaller cartridges, but still with very tolerable recoil.

Maverick223
March 23, 2010, 05:13 PM
However, for buying a practical, factory hunting rifle, I would opt for neither the 7mm-8 or the 7x57. I would go .280, and did for my sister. It outperforms both of the smaller cartridges, but still with very tolerable recoil.I too like the 7x57mm, but completely agree with the above statement. There is a reason the .280Rem. is the most sought after custom cartridge chambering requested.

:)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 23, 2010, 06:43 PM
Don't forget that T/Cs website shows that they supposedly are making the Icon Classic now in .280 Rem!! :)

All of the above is right, and the 6.5x55 is in the exact same boat ax 7x57.

Maverick223
March 23, 2010, 06:57 PM
All of the above is right, and the 6.5x55 is in the exact same boat as 7x57.I suppose you're right... The .260Rem.:6.5x55mm::7mm-08Rem.:7x57mm, which is to say that the newer round is a short action round roughly equivalent to the original, with lighter bullets, but slightly inferior especially with heavy bullets. Also brass life if significantly reduced, but brass is cheaper and more available for the new rounds. Good analogy, Doc.

:)

Dr T
March 24, 2010, 11:22 PM
The wildcat 7mm - 08 developed a stellar reputation for accuracy before it was standardized by Remington. And gun companies like to introduce new chamberings that will generate sales for buyers after the Latest and Greatest.

There is about as much difference between the 7mm - 08 and 7x57 as there is between the .243 Win and the 6 mm Remington. The former are based on the 308 case and the latter on the 57 mm length Mauser case. The Mauser case has a longer neck and slightly more capacity. But the boxy 308 case may burn powder more consistently.

They are similar in performance, and both much easier on you than than a 7 mm Rem Mag.

And, at least one professional ivory hunter killed a lot of elephants with a 7x57.

SaxonPig
March 24, 2010, 11:45 PM
The 280 is great but requires a full length action while the 7x57 can squeak into a shorter "intermediate" length action. Plus, while it's true the 280 does it a little better than the 7x57, do you really need more? Will an additional 150 FPS really make that much difference?

Dr T
March 25, 2010, 01:15 AM
And the 280 Rem is based on the 30-06 case (and the 308 is a shortened 30-06 case).

berettashotgun
March 25, 2010, 03:09 AM
A -57 case can be made pretty darn accurate in its 6mm form.
I bought an FN49 in 7x57 without realizing my good luck, and was ready for some recoil. Just got some punctured eardrums. I love that chambering, along with the Kentucky Rifleman I would not blink in purchasing a 700 or 70 in 7x57.

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