Decapping live primers?


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I0sens
March 22, 2010, 10:20 PM
Hi

Just made my first big boo-boo (and probably not the last).
"Experience is if you made every mistake at least once" right?

Anyway I had to pull the bullets to reload them again.
I neck size only - no crimp.

Here is my multipart question:

1. Do I need to re-size the neck after pulling the bullets - I would think so and I started to do it...

...until I realized that I was going to decap live primers. Hmmmm?

2. I was careful so nothing happened.
I was always wondering how bad a primer going off is? Did you ever have this happen to you ? During priming or depriming? How bad is it?


3. What do I do to sensibly depose of the live primers? Pure oil over them? alcohol?


Thanks

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bds
March 22, 2010, 10:37 PM
You can resize the case with the decapping pin removed.

I decap live primers and reuse them - always wear eye protection when working with primers.

JimKirk
March 22, 2010, 10:42 PM
Why dispose of them, they are still good, unless you crushed them when seating them. I would not use them in real important ammo, but they are fine for plinking ammo.

Jimmy K

Kentucky_Rifleman
March 22, 2010, 10:49 PM
I was decapping (more or less) live primers out of some old military 30-06 pull-apart components I got at a gun show when I elbowed the lever of my Rockchucker. The lever dropped down, cramming the primed shell into the die and detonating the primer.

:eek:

Other than squinching me up tight enough to pass a Tiffany cufflink, it was no calamity. It didn't even break the decapping pin - which surprised me. A little cleaning in the die and a fresh pair of underwear, and I was back in business in no time.

KR

Marlin 45 carbine
March 22, 2010, 10:50 PM
bottle neck cases likely will need neck sizeing only, but this requires the center pin. just do as you've done, easy does it.
and as said use the primers in 'practice' rounds.

Buck Snort
March 22, 2010, 11:11 PM
I've never set one off.

ArchAngelCD
March 23, 2010, 03:26 AM
Primers are made to go bang when struck from the "outside", not if pushed from the inside. When I need to decap a live primer I do is slowly and I reuse the primer. I've never had one go bang, there is really no reason it should. (like said above, always use eye protection)

GMFWoodchuck
March 23, 2010, 10:04 AM
Go really slow......

I've hit them with hammers. While pretty cool and noisy, it's not like a bomb either. Make sure you have the safety glasses on.

Officially, we all are telling you not to do it....But....

jcwit
March 23, 2010, 10:50 AM
If one is pushing a primer out with a press what could happen? The back of the primer, being the cup will eject out of the case and go down into the press, no harm there. The anvil is held in the primer pocket and no where to go, no harm there. The gases are in the case which should be enclosed inside the die and held by the depriming pin, should be no problem there.

We're talking about a VERY small amount of compound here and everything enclosed, I see no problem.

Wear eye protection, just as you should have on when reloading anyway. Just as you should put on your seat belt.

Ian Sean
March 23, 2010, 10:57 AM
3. What do I do to sensibly depose of the live primers? Pure oil over them? alcohol?

Every live primer I have removed I have re-used no problem. All have gone bang. I have never had a primer go off during removal or seating...I have even had a few get seated sideways over the years and get smushed good....:confused:

jcwit
March 23, 2010, 01:31 PM
Every live primer I have removed I have re-used no problem. All have gone bang. I have never had a primer go off during removal or seating...I have even had a few get seated sideways over the years and get smushed good....


Correct!! Primers ignite/go off/whatever you want to call it, by a sharp impact, not by crushing. Just like exploding targets go off from bullet impact not by handling.

Otto
March 23, 2010, 03:05 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/Leander/Dillon.jpg

rcmodel
March 23, 2010, 03:16 PM
I agree with the Dillon warning, if you are using a Dillon progressive press.

It doesn't apply to a single stage press and depriming them one round at a time and properly getting the live primer out of the thick of the action.

If you have a primer catcher full of live primers, or a primer feed tube full of live primers, don't do it!

Otherwise, do it.

rc

Mustanir
March 23, 2010, 03:17 PM
Good to be patient and wary but.............
Temptation to do it yourself is greater.

budiceman
March 23, 2010, 03:22 PM
What kind are they? Send them to me I'll safely remove and dispose of them!

Otto
March 23, 2010, 03:23 PM
I agree with the Dillon warning, if you are using a Dillon progressive press.The OP didnt say what press he was using
Besides, many single stage presses have spent primer cups as well.
Thanks for your advice but I'll stick with Dillon's.

jcwit
March 23, 2010, 05:00 PM
I would bet that Dillons warning is lawyer advised.

We're living in a socity with all kinds of warnings. How many here actually let their lawn mowers cool down before gassing up. Ever read and follow to the letter all the warnings and cautions when using lawn fertilizer. The list goes on and on. I find it amazing folks still have the nerve to drive on todays roads.

End comment--Hitch up your pants and get a pair.

oneounceload
March 23, 2010, 05:09 PM
I would bet that Dillons warning is lawyer advised.

Absolutely - and I would imagine the other makers have something similar.

Decapping live primers is NOT that big a deal - go slow and easy and you'll be fine. I have decapped live primers for one reason or another for over 25 years and have NEVER had any issue, even when I dropped them on the floor and then vacuumed them up with my shop vac.

howlnmad
March 23, 2010, 05:55 PM
If your sizing die has a removable decapping pin, do so and have at it. If not, then be gentle but have at it.

reloadergriz
March 23, 2010, 06:20 PM
to answer your question, used motor oil make them inert & also contained .. Let your conscience be your guide .. I *cringe when i do it, and Any Reloading book says NO.. We all take chances in life Until ... That's why there is snake eyes on dice .. Your Call .. * Oh yea, I saw (2) wheelguns blow the cylinders apart ( not mine ) due to ' faulty reloading practices .. Stay Safe ..

oneounceload
March 23, 2010, 08:15 PM
Sorry, motor oil does not always work to deactivate a live primer. It is easier to deprime and reuse

reloadergriz
March 23, 2010, 08:45 PM
I'll just agree to 'disagree' .. Sorry ..What is easier is not always best imho ..

HOWARD J
March 23, 2010, 08:58 PM
I have been using motor oil for 40 years to get rid of old loaded cartridges, primers, etc.
I can tell you --after they have been in the bottle for 4-5 years---they don't fire.
Don't forget to wipe them off for testing..........................:D

reloadergriz
March 23, 2010, 09:14 PM
Thankyou ! .. Finally some 'seasoned' input ..

oneounceload
March 23, 2010, 09:19 PM
Yeah, because for 4-5 YEARS, you have a live round sitting there.........right............

decap the primers - don't want to reuse? Hit them with a hammer on the floor of your garage - sound just like firecrackers. It's NOT a big deal, stop trying to make it like disarming a nuclear device............

ADKWOODSMAN
March 23, 2010, 10:17 PM
If the garage floor is concrete you will have many pock marks on your floor.

I0sens
March 23, 2010, 10:26 PM
Thanks for all your input,
looks like I did OK then.

jcwit
March 23, 2010, 10:34 PM
If the garage floor is concrete you will have many pock marks on your floor.

Maybe from the hammer, not from the primer tho.

wilkersk
March 24, 2010, 06:13 AM
-Accidental detonation in a full Dillon XL650 primer magazine => NOT FUN!

-Making a half dozen or so screw ups go bang with my Lee classic loader's
punch and shell holder =>Priceless!

1SOW
March 24, 2010, 07:16 PM
I picked up a new Fed. SPP in a tight location with a pair of needle nose pliars--it went bang. Actually no big deal at all when unconfined and not in with 100 more just like it.

jcwit
March 24, 2010, 08:42 PM
I picked up a new Fed. SPP in a tight location with a pair of needle nose pliars--it went bang. Actually no big deal at all when unconfined and not in with 100 more just like it.

Not doubting you at all, but that had to be a 1 in a billion happenstance. Think how many black powder caps are banging around in shooters bags ect, being shoved onto nipples ect., ect.

That was quite a happening you had.

sonick808
March 24, 2010, 10:33 PM
i've heard federal primers are both hot and temperamental...... any truth ?

I had NO idea you could remove live primers from the flash side. I figured it would crush the anvil and ruin the primer. I hit a shotgun primer with a hammer when i was a kid, the hammer bounced right back and i clawed the back of my head. That instilled a fear of primers in me for awhile, regardless of the fact that i was only 5 or so.

reloadergriz
March 24, 2010, 11:03 PM
Yes, absolutely ..* Lee hand primers with the squeeze handle & round primer tray comes with a warning : " It is not recommended to use this product with federal primers " .. This was finally put out by Lee after so many reloaders had detonations using it .. You had no idea you could remove them from the 'flash side' Because you'll 'never find it written in Any reloading book I've ever had or heard about .. Put the brass case in your gun inert / ( no powder ) & pop it . it's easier to clean the barrel than replace your eye . always point in a safe direction of course. + it beats using a hammer for the lord's sake * added info : Federal primer co is the only one to use a 'basic' mix .. this is different and more sensitive than all the other manuf's .. They also never touch eachother in their trays when shipped due to that reason .. The boxes are much larger than other's and the trays are the reason why.. Yes, due to the fact that detonations Have occured Lee issued the above warning* .. Do i use them myself , yes on occasion & they are a fine primer . However, i limit the amount in the tray to 10 or so .. would i ever load them in a 'tube' ( 100 ) on top of eachother , I'll Pass , Thankyou ..

ArchAngelCD
March 25, 2010, 04:05 AM
I had NO idea you could remove live primers from the flash side. I figured it would crush the anvil and ruin the primer.
Remember, the live primer was just put into clean brass and not fired. Because it wasn't fired it didn't stretch in the brass so it comes out with VERY little pressure from the decapper. Like I said above, I've used every live primer I've taken out of brass over again and all want bang. I'm not saying I've done 1000's but I'm guessing over the years there have been 50 or so for 1 reason or another.

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 06:00 AM
that is assuming that the brass in new / clean . i've cleaned oh over 70,000 cases and 'not all once fired' .. I inserted the 'new' (not any prior pulled) primers and some fell out of the brass pockets they were so worn .. I'll just pass onto recycling anything but 'good brass/nickel cases .. thanks

jcwit
March 25, 2010, 08:46 AM
Whats the determination that brass is "good".? Just wondering.

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 04:21 PM
Whats the determination that brass is "good".? Just wondering.
quite simple for me at least.. primer pockets that are so worn out, they will not hold a primer any longer.. 'manual seating pretty much tells you when you have 'bad worn out brass .. instead of the normal 'resistance' it goes in way way too easy .. getting away from the primers, i will 'never' load any case neck w/splits either .. any telltale case 'head indicator's ( lines /bulging will be rejected also.
I do a lot of client based loading and i will never put out trash & always will strive to supercede any factory cartridges & in many instances, mine have been proven way better .. I have very high 'book' standards & i will not lower them to 'save a buck' ...this is done for safety first, then reputation later.
( please bear in mind that i'm speaking of rifle cartridges here ) I hope this helps you some ..

jcwit
March 25, 2010, 07:06 PM
Ok. I don't do any reloading for any one and do not shoot reloades from anyone else.

In my approx. 50 years of reloading I've only encountered a few "as in less than 10" loose primer pockets. And they were all in 45 acp brass, don't remember what flavor.

Currently only reload 2 rifle cartridges much at all. I reload some 30/06 for use in my Garand, and some .223 for casual bench shooting. The .223 brass has been reloaded over 60 times now with no indication of loose pockets, head seperation, or neck cracks. Neck size only.

I guess all my brass is good, at least it has been so far, and Lord Knows I'll never use it all up. Heck I can't find time to get it all cleaned or polished, nor can I find time to get all my lead melted into ingots.

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 07:28 PM
Ok, well allow me to first say the use of the term 'clients' may have been misleading ..
they are or were all friends and people in the neighborhood/ town here ..( including a gunshop owner ) There is no profit as i did the requests for my cost in most cases ( no pun intended ) .. You have been extremely fortunate to have found 'no suspect cases with unacceptable pockets ..( yes, i had some .45 acp's also ) .. i own a rcbs work station & will not use 'steel bristles in my brass pockets.
In one batch of .223's alone off the net , i had (14 ) ! .. Not military / but commercial ..
i'm in the same boat as you are, and right now i have over 100 lbs of lead & more brass than i'll ever get to in all kinds of calibers, used and brand new also < in the minority ..
I have a 'just retired best buddy from LEO and he'll test fire any changes i make in powders / bullets etc; .. i applaud your dedication to the sport & wish you only the best .. p.s. the head seperation
comment was directed at the 'belted magnums & believe me with those pressures, you are not reloading them too many times ( and also not recommended ) (20) grns is one thing , (55 +) yet another ! ( all i ask is to be buried with my brass ) lol

jcwit
March 25, 2010, 07:47 PM
I think I need to apologize here as it seems my post was implying you reload as in a business standpoint. Sorry did not mean that, was just stating that I do not reload for anyone else, rereading my first couple of sentences it came off all wrong. Very bad choice of wording on my part, and will edit. Sorry griz.

cavman
March 25, 2010, 07:58 PM
I was depriming .45 ACPs that were live with CCI primers. I was merrily chugging away and Kaboom.

Blew the little blue plastic catch bucket to smithereens.

I was wearing ear muffs and eye glasses, so only surprise, nothing more, thankfully.

I don't remember how many there were in the bucket, I am guessing about 5ish.

I have since done it several times; one at a time, now only after taking off the replacement waste primer bucket, and letting them fall. However, SLOWLY is now the way.

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 08:16 PM
I think I need to apologize here as it seems my post was implying you reload as in a business standpoint. Sorry did not mean that, was just stating that I do not reload for anyone else, rereading my first couple of sentences it came off all wrong. Very bad choice of wording on my part, and will edit. Sorry griz.
i just answered your p/message .. please 'don't apologize as it might have been my poor choice of words .. As i've hit my mid 60's now , it seems i forget my own name at times ( lol ) .. add spelling to that too ! ..The Admin's here & or moderators are 'golden compared to some i've been on ! .. they are adult, understanding, tolerant and fairly easy on postings ..I've made some mistakes and apologized for doing so .. No harm no foul my friend ! .. ( caring is sharing ) ! .. my best !

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 08:20 PM
I was depriming .45 ACPs that were live with CCI primers. I was merrily chugging away and Kaboom.

Blew the little blue plastic catch bucket to smithereens.

I was wearing ear muffs and eye glasses, so only surprise, nothing more, thankfully.

I don't remember how many there were in the bucket, I am guessing about 5ish.

I have since done it several times; one at a time, now only after taking off the replacement waste primer bucket, and letting them fall. However, SLOWLY is now the way.
GREAT POST ! .. i wish the guy with the hammer smashing primers on his garage floor would read your posting ! .. I personally have been in (3) major combat mine explosions
back in the 60's & I know what it's like to still be carrying the schrapnel in my body from that + the burns .. Some people will 'always take chances & we'll never change that or them .. I'm just glad nothing worse happened to you .. stay safe !

sonick808
March 25, 2010, 08:46 PM
good info, thanks griz

reloadergriz
March 26, 2010, 10:00 PM
you're more than welcome my friend ! ( keep em in the 10 ring ) ! .. as for me , just hit the dang paper ! ( lol ) ...

bds
March 26, 2010, 10:14 PM
I have used Winchester primers the past 15 years of reloading and Magtech/Wolf/PMC the past year and no accidental primer detonation. I have mashed and crushed many primers in the Lee Pro 1000, but no POP (Hand priming eliminated mashed/crushed primers forever).

I pick up range brass and I am averaging 2-5 loose primer pockets per 1000 (they get marked with "X" at the bottom of the case and put in separate box to be scrapped after shooting).

reloadergriz
March 27, 2010, 04:43 PM
ditto re handpriming .. that's great with pick-up brass .. a lot of times you'll find that it's better to get those, than from the 'net ... many shooter's do not reload, so you will have a good chance of many once fired .. Good for you my friend ! .. 'awareness is what i was trying to stress .. do you reload any 'belted magnums ?

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