Mossy 500 w/ laser and flashlight


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Firemedic56
March 23, 2010, 02:41 AM
So I'm thinking of trading up my home defense gun to a shotty(try as I might my wife is just a horrible shot with a revolver) I work nights a lot and my wife is home with the kids.

I'm thinking Mossberg 500 PG 18-1/2 with a flashlight/laser combo, I figure that should be point and click, simple enough they even she can hit something.... Any thoughts?


Also anyone know of any decent flash/laser combo that doesn't cost nearly half the cost of the damn shotgun itself.

Thanks guys

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Daniel1120
March 23, 2010, 02:49 AM
A laser flashlight combo for about $100 thats worth a damn? Nope.

Firemedic56
March 23, 2010, 02:54 AM
thats what im finding out haha

AWorthyOpponent
March 23, 2010, 03:35 AM
Also anyone know of any decent flash/laser combo that doesn't cost nearly half the cost of the damn shotgun itself.

A I actually posted a thread about NcStar products a day or two ago and got mixed feelings. If its something that you're only going to use in a home defense scenario, id say just go for that. It's a touchy topic for most, but I have one (flashlight/laser combo) for my handgun that I've put hundreds, if not thousands of rounds through my handgun while it was attached. I cant comment on the scopes, but the f-light/lasers work fine for their purpose. Plus, If you do use it in a SD scenario, they're going to take the gun anyways.

Firemedic56
March 23, 2010, 04:39 AM
Yea they seem more my price range, I would hate to spend 200$ on a laser/light combo when I can put it towards another gun lol. I'll look into the few models they have and see which one will fit the bill the best. Thanks, appreciate it

I know some people don't like lasers but in HD with a PGO shotty, I can't fathom a reason not to use one. just makes sense to me.

Fred Fuller
March 23, 2010, 11:43 AM
Your wife can't hit with a revolver, and you really think you're going to improve that situation by handing her a pistol grip only 12 gauge shotgun??

lpl

AcceptableUserName
March 23, 2010, 12:04 PM
ha ha ha

oneounceload
March 23, 2010, 01:21 PM
How about taking her to a range and letting her try several things before you buy. Maybe even a lesson or two on how to use that revolver. She can try shotguns, semis, other revolvers, etc.

You didn't say what type of revolver, but if it was a J-frame, you might try moving up to a K, L, or N frame gun, using 38 WCs to start.

Otherwise, let her try a shotgun that fits her with nice, low-recoiling TARGET ammunition, not your shoulder-thumping buckshot loads

Big Boy
March 23, 2010, 01:31 PM
Please don't get her PGO...

Sam1911
March 23, 2010, 02:07 PM
Mossberg 500 PG
I think he meant "Mossberg 500 Pump Gun" -- not Pistol Grip.

I doubt anyone buying a gun for his wife is silly enough to choose a PGO.

A couple of thoughts come to mind: 20 gauge works pretty well and is often easier & more fun to shoot than 12, for smaller-statured folks.

The light is a great idea. Almost the last thing in the world you want to have happen is her to shoot without making ABSOLUTELY sure of who/what her target is.

The laser is ... up to you I guess, but not the kind of thing I'd worry about.

And, whatever gun you end up with, have her practice, practice, practice.

AcceptableUserName
March 23, 2010, 02:18 PM
didn't mean to be rude to the OP. I think a 12 gauge shotgun will be fine for your wife if you approach it right. See what loads she can handle and how fast. I wouldn't go over standard velocity 2 3/4" 00 buck and I'd look at the reduced recoil loads. I'd forego the laser and just take the extra time to teach her how to shoot the gun instinctively. It's just an extension of your arm and eye. Where you point the gun and look is where the shot should go. You have to be accurate, but being "accurate" with a shotgun is a little bit different than a pistol or a shotgun. At the ranges shes likely to ever shoot it at in self defense, itll be more or less a solid projectile with a good load, but the fact remains is it will be a BIGGER solid projectile than a lot of other weapons. A light is the choice of the user, but LED is my choice for something that will stand up to the recoil of defensive loads in a shotgun. A stock I'd recommend in this case is the Hogue reduced LOP stock.

I recommend getting a bunch of bulk target stuff, and the reduced recoil buckshot loads by Federal, Remington, Winchester, Fiocchi and Hornady and see how she does. Start out on the target stuff for awhile. Show her the difference in shot. There's a lot to the shotgun and if you aren't familiar it could end up hurting you later on. It wouldn't hurt to pick upa defensive shotgun DVD either.


I highly doubt she'll like a pistol grip, and it's the last thing I'd want to learn shotgun on.

Fred Fuller
March 23, 2010, 04:00 PM
Sam,

Re-read Post # 5...

lpl

Sam1911
March 23, 2010, 04:02 PM
Sam,

Re-read Post # 5...


Oh. Oh no. Ok. Well, uh, I'll second everyone else here: Don't do that.

ArmedBear
March 23, 2010, 04:07 PM
never mind delete

Firemedic56
March 23, 2010, 06:28 PM
I was only thinking reduced recoil loads. We have tried the range, I believe her problem is her hands, she is 5'3" with tiny hands and I think the 357. SW I use for HD is too big for her, However I must go with a shotgun cause handguns have jumped up so much in price I just can't do it.

I figure PGO because She sleeps in her bed room with the door locked, and our 2 infants in bed with her (not because im paranoid, because its easier for her) If anything happens, alarm goes off etc. I want her to put kids in closet, watch door and call police. I don't want her to go out and meet the threat, so something small and compact would be easier for her to use to protect herself if someone attempts to get into the bed room.


she can handle 12G pretty well and if i reinforce the idea that you shoot from the hip only, with the help of the laser I think it would be easier for her to engage a threat if she HAS to.

I personally want a 590a1 but I'm not sure how the stock would be with her small frame.

But I guess I'll take her down with me to the gun store this weekend let her feel a few out and see what we can come up with. Thanks guys appreciate the input

AcceptableUserName
March 23, 2010, 06:38 PM
590a1 is pretty heavy. Which is good and bad. It'll reduce perceived recoil, which is good. It's heavier, which for her, may be bad. I'd look into a Winchester 1300 Defender if they have one locally somewhere. Prior to purchasing a laser, contact the Manufacturer and determine how theirs is rated under heavy recoil. Tell them in no uncertain terms. And realize that you get what you pay for. I doubt you're going to get anything quality for under a hundred bucks. I don't think people have an issue with a laser not being effective on a shotgun, it's just price vs. return - for what you'd pay getting a good laser mounted you'd be better off buying a bunch of ammo or good light mount solution.

Since you're on a budget, I'd look into a bead sight Mossberg 590a1, 18.5", that's priced UNDER 375 OTD and then add a Hogue reduced LOP standard stock. And then practice, practice, practice and pattern on it. It's the cheapest, best way for you in my opinion. If that's over your budget. Go with a Mossberg 500 18.5", blued. That's gonna be your cheapest,best bet. Avoid a 20" gun as I feel they're ungainly for shooters of s amller stature, even with a shortened LOP stock.

axeman_g
March 24, 2010, 01:35 PM
look for a full stock, 20g 500. Teach her how to use it, she will like it so much she will start going to the range with you. My wife hated the 12g... but likes her 20g so much she insists on going with me on shottie day.

Fred Fuller
March 24, 2010, 01:52 PM
Firemedic56,

An experiment for you to consider...

Stand with your back pressed against a blank wall.

Hold a PGO shotgun (action open, unloaded of course) in any position you'd consider firing it from.

Have someone measure the distance from the wall to the muzzle of the shotgun.

Do the same with a full stock shotgun, same position, same make, model and barrel length.

Compare the measurements.

fwiw,

lpl

Leafy Cronmer
March 24, 2010, 02:08 PM
You say the reason for changing to a shotgun is so that your wife would be able to use it properly and hit her intended target. With a 12 gauge PGO I would suspect you are going to run into the same problem as with the handgun. Maybe a best of both worlds would be a full stock that has a pistol grip?

tkopp
March 24, 2010, 05:14 PM
If she's that small, a Universal Carbine is in your price range. It will be lighter than most shotguns, doesn't have a pump action she can short-stroke, very little recoil, and it fairly quiet to shoot. Load a 15-round mag with soft points and the rounds shouldn't exit your home unless they find a window on the way out.

shockwave
March 24, 2010, 05:29 PM
There are used S&W revolvers out there for around $250, .38 special. I've been playing around with my Mossy 500 PGO at the range, just getting the feel for it, and I'm going to have to get a stock for it. If the missus is having trouble with the size of a .357, the Mossberg is going in the wrong direction. It requires a larger grip, it's heavier, and to aim it you have to hold it up near eye level and absorb most of the recoil with your arm. I tried the hip thing and that's actually worse because you want your arms to absorb the recoil, not stop it.

Must as I hate to say it, the experts here are very correct - PGO is not real smart for HD. Fun as all all get-out just for shooting, but bad for HD.

RandKL
March 24, 2010, 08:43 PM
to aim it you have to hold it up near eye level and absorb most of the recoil with your arm. I tried the hip thing and that's actually worse because you want your arms to absorb the recoil, not stop it.

Try it the right way now.

http://pistol-grip-only-shotgun-technique.4t.com/Pistol_Grip_Only_Shotgun_Technique.html

rich

shockwave
March 24, 2010, 10:00 PM
Try it the right way now

That's exactly what I said, but I'm sorry if it didn't come across. Actually, one of the better examples of how to fire a PGO is that "hottie" babe video. She isn't in the right position - see Ayoob for that, but the way she doesn't fight the recoil is instructive. First time I tried the gun I braced it on my hip, which seemed instinctive but after some practice you quickly learn it's wrong. The position I'm using now I picked up from an old guy at the range I go to, and this guy couldn't be more than 100 lbs wet, but he handles a PGO effortlessly.

Doesn't matter - I'm putting a full stock on this thing. The point is clear from personal experience: you can fire a PGO quite well and comfortably and it's no big deal. But your range of holding options is limited. A full stock allows a greater range of holding options and options are good.

If you're coming through my door and I've got the PGO in hand - you dead. If I'm laying on the ground looking under a car and I see your feet and ankles and want to take a shot, it's going to better for me to have a stock.

Dimis
March 24, 2010, 11:21 PM
seriously dont get a PGO shotgun

im an average sized guy and i have trouble controling a PGO
recoil with a PGO feels way more intense

as for your light/laser deal your probably going to spend as much on the setup as the shotgun maybe even more if you want one worth useing

id suggest either the streamlight XLR-2s or the surefire X400 on some form of rail

honestly just get the 590 youll be happier in the long run

RandKL
March 25, 2010, 12:26 AM
That's exactly what I said,

That's *nothing* like what you said.

Eye level and "hip shooting", both as you said you had tried, are both patently wrong.

r

Firemedic56
March 28, 2010, 02:58 AM
Well like I said in my last post, With all this info Im going to try and make her have a more active role in choosing the weapon she wants, the price range is an issue, however I feel HD is worth spending a little more then I would like.

To clarify for some people, Im 6'5" 290 and have used my fathers PGO 500 often when I was growing up and never had a problem with control or use. I do kind of see what you all are saying and I think that might be the wrong direction for her... I guess it is hard for me to imagine how it effects a smaller person.

anyway Thanks for the continued input guys, I really appreciate it

Firemedic56
March 28, 2010, 03:22 AM
Also in case anyone was wondering since I didnt really specify, I currently use my S&W model 13 blued .357 with a 4in barrel, Pachmayr Decelerator grip with winchester jhp.

shockwave
March 28, 2010, 07:38 PM
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/southerneditor/mandswpgo.jpg

Here's my work in progress The PGO Mossy 500 now has sidesaddle, and the ATI barrel clamp (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110509163418) was the solution for mounting the tac-lite. A great benefit of this was the extra sling-mount option this provides which gets the sling forward mounting point away from the end of the magazine tube. By moving it back a bit, I get a better position for the sling.

Next up is the Butler Creek folding stock (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=151694). I've had enough range time with the PGO to see that it doesn't work for HD the way I want, and when this part is added I'll have the HD solution I'm working for. So, side saddle, stock, metal safety (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159306637), sling, and light have this shotgun pretty well sorted out. The magazine follower (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=1530/Products/Mossberg_500_Parts) is up next.

I want to thank McCracken for his wise guidance in the build of this weapon.

shockwave
April 16, 2010, 11:31 AM
Update: Took it out to the range yesterday for the first test with the folding stock.

Night and day. As a PGO-gun, it was difficult to aim and firing positions were limited. With the stock in place, I was easily - very easily - tagging targets at distance accurately and comfortably with full-load shells. In fact, I was surprised at how well the stock takes up recoil.

So I took The High Road challenge and tested PGO vs with-stock and it's no contest. You don't have to take anybody's word for it: do your own testing and see.

Al LaVodka
April 16, 2010, 10:03 PM
Yeah, u wiseguy anti-PGO's had me bolt a heavy Choate top-folder onto my PGO 500...
:rolleyes:

I promise it is coming off... Just as soon as I can cut a screw and remove the half dozen washers I had to use.

Al

roo_ster
April 17, 2010, 06:35 PM
Streamlight produces an excellent gun light for $100 when you can find it on sale. They also produce it with a laser for $200 on sale. Mounting it on a pump or semi-auto shotgun so that the laser maintains zero will be a challenge for you. If you find a way you find satisfactory, please share.

------------

Honestly, I have not shot a PGO much and intend to investigate them in an analytic fashion in the near future. But, given 12ga recoil and the intended user, I don't see good things happening.

Perhaps an alternative might be a cheap Mossberg M500 or used Rem 870 with a Knoxx/Blackhawk Special Ops Stock installed. The stock telescopes to fit the user and also reduces perceived recoil. Stoke with reduced recoil 00 buckshot. I have used both the Spec Ops Stock and the Knoxx Cop Stock and am a true believer. They do indeed reduce perceived recoil. Just have to be sure it still fits right and especially that the eye/bbl line up.

Another alternative is a used Remington 1100 20ga. Cut the stock to fit her, cut the bbl to 18.25" or so, and that would be a soft shooter, indeed.

---------

Last, you & your wife are going to have radically different preferences as far as revolver grips go. Maybe buying a half-dozen used grip styles for the .357. I assume Smith & Wesson? K, L, and N frame grip styles abound. Try some out for her, everything from the old-school minimalist grips to the super-squoosher neoprene jobs.

Or, you can skip to the end and have her try an all-steel full-sized 1911 in .45ACP, .38 Super, or 9mm. I have started several gals on handguns and the hardest-to-fit gals eventually all found joy with a 1911.

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