paypal upcharge??


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Caliber
March 23, 2010, 01:02 PM
Why is it that all the users selling items in THR forum charge the 4% paypal charge? You go to ebay and nobody even asks for that.. The 4% fee is worth the convenience to me and in my opinion more items would sell if paypal was accepted.. Do people realize how much of a pain it is to go out and get a money order for some people with busy schedules. All I know is people should get with the times and welcome online transactions.

And this forum is fantastic and I thank you all.

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General Geoff
March 23, 2010, 01:05 PM
Online transactions are fine but PayPal is known to have very anti-gun policies. That's why I closed my PayPal account a few years ago and will not reactivate it.

Motodeficient
March 23, 2010, 01:05 PM
On ebay you can't charge extra for paypal fees. Ebay won't let you, because ebay OWNS paypal.

I agree though, on all other forums I have been on, especially computer forums, NOBODY asks for extra to be paid through paypal. I personally don't care about a few extra cents compared to having the money instantly and like you said, its much easier to sell something if you accept paypal.

kwelz
March 23, 2010, 01:06 PM
Ebay doesn't allow for it. If they did many people would.
Normally an Ebay that upcharge will be built into the reserve, etc. On here people normally take cash or MO as well so they don't want to take a hit on Paypal.

Caliber
March 23, 2010, 01:27 PM
Thank you all for your input.. I now understand better.

medalguy
March 23, 2010, 02:12 PM
There's a simple yet unknown way to avoid the fees. Mark the funds sent as "personal" and the transfer is free. Shhhh.....don't tell Paypal about this!

bmph8ter
March 23, 2010, 02:34 PM
People do it because they don't want to take the hit if someone uses Paypal. But, it's against Paypal policy for you to charge an extra fee for accepting Paypal. Technically, someone could lose their Paypal account for doing it if they phrase it that way.

To skirt it, you'd have to do it like the gas stations do with credit cards. You CAN'T charge an extra fee for accepting a card, but you CAN offer a "cash" discount.

Don't like Paypal a lot, but I will say that for me it's much more convenient to use for buying/selling online as that's what almost everyone uses.

Haven't ever used it for a firearms related transaction as I don't even have any firearms yet; ha! Supposed to get the first ones today though; a 380 & 22 pistols that belonged to my grandfather.

HexHead
March 23, 2010, 02:42 PM
I question the ethics of any seller that tries to pass along the fees. They agreed to the User Agreement when they signed up for PayPal, and it expressly forbids the practice. If they aren't a person of their word, maybe they're lying about the condition of what they're selling? You're either a man of your word or you're not.

HexHead
March 23, 2010, 02:43 PM
You're better off doing this anyway as PayPal is anti-gun to begin with.

1KPerDay
March 23, 2010, 02:49 PM
I don't ask for extra, but I happily pay the extra fee if the seller requires it. Going to the post office is a nightmare. I generally use paypal for transactions less than $100 (if the seller requires fees).

Although I did buy a $4K motorcycle sight unseen once... :scrutiny:

EddieNFL
March 23, 2010, 02:59 PM
I avoid sellers that use PayPal. I don't like enriching my enemies.

1KPerDay
March 23, 2010, 03:06 PM
BTW if you fund the payment via your linked bank account, and you click "personal" and "other" there are no fees for either the seller or the buyer.

FAS1
March 23, 2010, 03:17 PM
For a vendor sometimes it's the best or only option, but they are the highest merchant fees that we are charged. It just comes with doing business on the internet. M/C and VISA offer the best rates to merchants. It evens out a little in the long run since for us Paypal isn't used as much by our customers.

buy guns
March 23, 2010, 03:53 PM
Unless something has changed, it's illegal to ask the buyer to cover the paypal fees.

silversport
March 23, 2010, 03:59 PM
you mean against their policies...it isn't illegal however I don't understand those that ask me to pay the fee when it is they that want paypal to be used...
Bill

Kindrox
March 23, 2010, 04:25 PM
I question the ethics of any seller that tries to pass along the fees. They agreed to the User Agreement when they signed up for PayPal

Sometimes stuff like this gets passed around as fact when it isn't. I am not saying the above is not true, but if it is, please cite the referance.

I know people say the same stuff about credit cards when in fact it is not a blanket true statement, as has been shown on this forum.

Bennyb747
March 23, 2010, 04:34 PM
You could just use GunPal..

https://www.gunpal.com/

silversport
March 23, 2010, 06:43 PM
Sometimes stuff like this gets passed around as fact when it isn't. I am not saying the above is not true, but if it is, please cite the referance.

I know people say the same stuff about credit cards when in fact it is not a blanket true statement, as has been shown on this forum.
From PayPal's latest agreement:

8. Fees.
8.1 Fees Overview.

Fees are based on whether you are making a Purchase Payment or a Personal Payment.

For Purchase Payments, the recipient of the payment will always pay the fee.


it does appear to me that PayPal has changed their rules a bit since I joined about 8 years ago...

rogertc1
March 23, 2010, 06:57 PM
Seems like only yesterday guns could be sold on E-Bay. Now they are anti-gun too.

taliv
March 23, 2010, 07:02 PM
allow me to summarize paypal's rules for you

1. take all you can
2. give nothin back

ol' scratch
March 23, 2010, 07:06 PM
I just sell junk on Ebay, get my payment from Paypal and use the money...to buy more guns and ammo:).

ktn65
March 23, 2010, 09:55 PM
I've been using PayPal for years, but am somewhat new to firearm purchasing and paying attention to the anti-gun crowd. How is PayPal anti-gun? (I'm not asking to stir the pot or anything, I just haven't heard this until now)

hso
March 24, 2010, 12:44 AM
How is PayPal anti-gun?

Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation

relate to sales of (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (e) items that are considered obscene, (f) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (g) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (h) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (i) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law

You could argue that ebay/PayPal lawyers are just making sure to keep them out of possible legal hot water in states that aggressively regulate and use those regulations against gun owners, but then you'd expect banks and the USPS to worry about their checks and MOs causing harassing prosecutions too if it were a real issue.

You could just use GunPal
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=504773

No convenience payment system is perfect, but they are convenient and you pay for that one way or another.

wsfarrell
March 24, 2010, 12:54 AM
Legal or not, firearms dealers are just about the only ones on the web to charge PayPal fees. I think they do it because they can--i.e., the stuff they're selling is often hard to get anywhere else.

Runningman
March 24, 2010, 01:38 AM
I avoid sellers that use PayPal.Me to.

evan price
March 24, 2010, 05:59 AM
I'm one of the "PayPal +3%" sellers.

I only accept PayPal as a convenience to the buyer, and some folks fund their purchases with credit cards via PayPal. I'm the one risking having my PayPal account shut down and all my funds therein confiscated if PayPal finds out that I am using it to sell things that they used to allow, but now sort of nebulously forbid without expressly forbidding it.

When I take a PayPal payment, now there is a record of a transaction, now there is funds going through a computer and a bank account. Now things are traceable.

I MUCH prefer USPS money orders. Go and cash them in when I mail the packages. Easy-peasy. Now I've got a piece of paper with your name and address on it in my hand to write the address label. Paypal- if the buyer doesn't notify me that they sent money- I may not notice for a few days. I don't check PayPal regularly. I don't check my email every few hours.

Hey, if you want PayPal, you cover the fees. Otherwise, send me a money order or a personal check, but checks wait to ship until the banks clear them. Don't like it? Mail me cash. At your risk.

bullseye308
March 24, 2010, 09:39 AM
I also sell things here and paypal is my preferred method of payment. It is more convenient for me, and also for you as the buyer. I can print a shipping label as soon as payment arrives and get you your product that much faster. Neither of us have to take time to go out and get a MO or cash one. We are both already at the computer, a few clicks and it's over. For myself personally, I don't ask for the fee unless the transaction is over 50.00. I have shipped 125 packages that I have not asked for a fee on, and either figure it a cost of doing business or you adjust your prices to reflect it.

Sure paypal is anti, so are lots of other corps that a lot of us support with a lot more money a lot more often. Just because they have the policy in place doesn't mean they are actively inforcing it. How many times do you see folks selling guns & accessories and paypal is mentioned as the payment method? How many of those folks get their account cancelled due to voilating policy? There have been a few, I'm sure, but also look at how many companies are being denied credit cards due to the nature of their business. How many of us still use those credit cards?

Don't hate us for accepting paypal, all of us will accept other forms of payment as well. I'm not too fond of it myself, but until something else widely accepted comes along I'm gonna stick with it. It is just too convenient for both parties, fees or no fees.

achildofthesky
March 24, 2010, 01:41 PM
I didn't read every every post here so sorry if I duplicated someone else's post...

Nothing wrong in my mind for getting reimbursed on a non ebay site for PP fees. How ever, if you piss off someone and they say it was a gun related transaction, your account can very well be frozen along with any $$ in it for a pretty long while. I DO NOT ACCEPT PP for any transaction other than ebay and even on that rare occasion I hate taking PP. Ebay sux and so does PP with all the antigun rules they have....

just sayin'

ktn65
March 24, 2010, 03:35 PM
Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:relate to sales of (h) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories

:what: Holy crap! That is just wrong. :what:

Really making me rethink using PayPal.

So I wonder if that came from an attorney trying to keep a potential lawsuit from popping up...... :scrutiny:

ChaoSS
March 24, 2010, 04:14 PM
I don't understand what the big deal is. If you accept Paypal you do so for the convenience of the buyer, not your own convenience. That convenience comes with a price for the seller, so if the buyer really wants it that much, he should be happy to take on the added cost.


BTW, I'd like to see proof from the guy who says that it's illegal to charge extra for the use of a card. I've seen that everywhere, but no one can back it up, and almost every gas station I've ever been to charges extra for debit, or credit, or either one.

hawkass13
March 24, 2010, 04:37 PM
I have yet to be charged 3% at wal-mart when buying ammo. Pay pal is meant to protect both buyer and seller. It's kinda a kick in the butt to be the buyer and be told that since you are sending IMMEDIATE payment you are being penalized and have to pay extra. If I send a check you have the money and the item and i have nothing at least with pay pal i have some protection. On the other forums to which i am a member they do not allow the seller to charge pay pal fees. Either include it in your price or don't. I have done my fair share of selling and eating fees. It's a part of good business.

indie
March 24, 2010, 04:37 PM
Firearm sellers also usually charge a +3% credit card fee.

RevDerb
March 24, 2010, 04:55 PM
I haven't read every post so this may have already been suggested but I have switched to GunPal https://www.gunpal.com/gp I've run nearly $1000 in transactions through them since November '09 without a hitch and no worries that they will freeze my account because I'm purchasing firearms, ammo or accessories. "Discreet" PP is fine but there's always a question in the back of mind if this is going to be the one. They also charge the seller a fee so prepare to pay slightly more when bidding - just like a CC.

45Badger
March 24, 2010, 05:00 PM
I'm one of the "PayPal +3%" sellers.

I only accept PayPal as a convenience to the buyer, and some folks fund their purchases with credit cards via PayPal. I'm the one risking having my PayPal account shut down and all my funds therein confiscated if PayPal finds out that I am using it to sell things that they used to allow, but now sort of nebulously forbid without expressly forbidding it.

When I take a PayPal payment, now there is a record of a transaction, now there is funds going through a computer and a bank account. Now things are traceable.

I MUCH prefer USPS money orders. Go and cash them in when I mail the packages. Easy-peasy. Now I've got a piece of paper with your name and address on it in my hand to write the address label. Paypal- if the buyer doesn't notify me that they sent money- I may not notice for a few days. I don't check PayPal regularly. I don't check my email every few hours.

Hey, if you want PayPal, you cover the fees. Otherwise, send me a money order or a personal check, but checks wait to ship until the banks clear them. Don't like it? Mail me cash. At your risk.

And it's closer to 4% (3.9, IIRC). I am a private seller/buyer, not a business. I buy, sell, trade, swap pretty actively. I accept paypal as a convenience to the buyer if they do not want to use cash, check, or MO. How a buyer pays is up to the buyer. I give them lot's of choices.

I prefer paypal as a buyer because I get a bit of fraud protection between them and my credit card company, it speeds up the transaction, and it saves me the cost (time and money) of mailing a money order. I am usually very happy to tack on 4% after I have negotiated a final price.

RevDerb
March 24, 2010, 05:03 PM
Legal or not, firearms dealers are just about the only ones on the web to charge PayPal fees. I think they do it because they can--i.e., the stuff they're selling is often hard to get anywhere else.
Ask your firearms dealer what his margin of profit is.

Palehorseman
March 24, 2010, 05:49 PM
I urinate on PayPal, they are anti-2nd.

wgsigs
March 24, 2010, 07:17 PM
I've been a buyer, but never a seller of guns on the internet, and have no problems with a seller charging the PayPal fee. After all it is impacting what the seller makes on the sale, $15-20 for a $500 gun? It is kind of like selling a gun with a "shipped" price. If the seller is not an FFL he is probably getting $20-60 less on the sale so the buyer makes adjustments on what he is willing to pay for the gun if he has to pay shipping. As mentioned before I view PayPal as a convenience for the buyer with the seller being potentially exposed to retribution for violating PayPal policies.

rogertc1
March 25, 2010, 07:52 AM
I don't wear Levi jeans and do not like the Kansas City Chiefs either as they are both anti-gun. Don't buy Ben and Jerrys Ice Cream either the Commies.

Kingofthehill
March 25, 2010, 02:10 PM
roll it into the price... if not and you put it in the ad that you are adding an extra fee, i won't be buying from you.

JOe

mgkdrgn
March 25, 2010, 11:27 PM
roll it into the price... if not and you put it in the ad that you are adding an extra fee, i won't be buying from you.

JOe
Easy to say, hard to do.

When your margin over cost is only 10% to begin with (IF I can make that margin on new guns, I'm lucky), it's pretty much impossible to "eat" 4% and stay in business. Now you are down to 6% over cost, and 1/2 of that goes to taxes. Time wise be better off collecting bottles for the deposit.

evan price
March 29, 2010, 02:27 AM
BTW, I'd like to see proof from the guy who says that it's illegal to charge extra for the use of a card. I've seen that everywhere, but no one can back it up, and almost every gas station I've ever been to charges extra for debit, or credit, or either one.

It's not "illegal" per se in that it's not a "law", what it is, is a Rule that is included in the Merchant Agreement. The Merchant Agreement is the Terms of Use & Policies that you have to read, sign, and agree to comply with to be allowed the "privelage" of accepting credit cards. The Card Issuers (Visa, MC, etc) claim that by merchants accepting Credit Cards they will get the benefit of increased sales, since people will be able to impulsively buy when they have no cash. To that end, the CC issuers say that since the vendor is benefitting from the card company, they pay the card company for the privelage of accepting their cards. To make it so people use the cards, they do not allow vendors to add on surcharges for card use.
Gas stations and many vendors are able to get around this by posting a "Discounted cash price" which "Reflects a cash discount of 3%" for example.
According to the merchant agreement, card surcharges are not allowed, but cash discounts ARE allowed.

ChaoSS
March 29, 2010, 02:13 PM
No, many gas stations have it posted that there is a 50 cent fee for debit cards, for example. Maybe they get away with it because no one reports them, but many, many, gas stations do this.

evan price
March 30, 2010, 04:33 AM
A debit card, when used as a debit card and not as a "Visa" branded card (which means you enter your PIN) may be subject to a fee because in its debit role, it is actually being used akin to an ATM, and the owner of the ATM may charge a service fee for the terminal.
It's splitting hairs if a gas pump is a terminal, but there you go.

Kingofthehill
March 30, 2010, 11:47 AM
Easy to say, hard to do.

When your margin over cost is only 10% to begin with (IF I can make that margin on new guns, I'm lucky), it's pretty much impossible to "eat" 4% and stay in business. Now you are down to 6% over cost, and 1/2 of that goes to taxes. Time wise be better off collecting bottles for the deposit.

fact is (for me anyways) Paypal is a quick way to pay, gets the whole selling/buying process done a lot faster and since the seller isn't paying a "Listing Fee" here on THR or similar forums, they shouldn't be crying over the paypal charge.

I don't, i use it and i don't try and roll it into the sale. Anyone who does IMO should be giving a small kick back to THR or similar forums for giving them the platform to sell their gun and make them money.

JOe

atomd
March 31, 2010, 03:03 PM
I think it's ok to pass along the cost. If it's convenient for the buyer he/she can pay a couple of extra dollars and get their item quicker. If they don't like it they can buy the item from someone else. I am just fine with gun shops listing cash prices also. That's the beauty of capitalism...if someone else has a better idea, they might end up with more of the business. That's the way it goes.

Paypal/Ebay is a just plain horrible company to deal with. I have heard that they have withheld money from firearms accessory dealers in order to "make sure they weren't selling anything illegal". I don't know if that's true or not but I wouldn't be surprised. They almost always find a way to hold on to your money for a few extra days so they can maximize their profit.

If you want to experience some of the worst customer service known to man, just wait until you have a problem and get Paypal on the phone. I think they might just take the #1 spot in the worst customer service of my life. I'd rather be hung up on than having to deal with them. I'm not kidding.

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