How much maintenence for a Garand?


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Golden_006
March 23, 2010, 02:32 PM
Got limited choices in my "assault weapon ban" NY. Got an SKS. i shot it twice, about 160 -180 rounds all together, and don't clean it/ bought it because I heard you don't need to all that much. A bullet got stuck as it was ejecting though. :p

I think I want a garand but will probably pay a gunsmith to fit a gas vent so i can have cheap ammo option and not reload it.

is there anything else I would have to do? I won't shoot it much i don't think. It'll probably just sit for the most part. How does it stack up to like a new rifle in terms of maintaining it or even my Romy SKS, or even a Mauser (really a pick 'em between that and the garand after i buy a shotgun)? But just curious how would I fare on a modern battlefield with a Garand anyways?
PS - Do you sound like a pretentious @$$ if u prononuce it: Guh-Rand instead of Gar-And

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wombat13
March 23, 2010, 03:07 PM
I can't answer your question regarding how maintenance compares to other rifles, but I can tell you that you don't need a gunsmith to install an adjustable gas plug. I have the Schuster for my garand:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146

You just unscrew the original and screw in the Schuster. Installation is all of about 1 minute.

Take it to the range with the ammo you will shoot. It is initially set to allow all the gas to escape so your rifle will be a single shot rifle. Just adjust the set screw with the included allen wrench a little bit after each shot until the action cycles. It couldn't be any easier.

If I want to shoot surplus ammo I just put in the original gas plug. When I want to shoot my hunting ammo I put in the Schuster (the setting doesn't change when you take it in and out).

DMK
March 23, 2010, 04:02 PM
They aren't high maintenance.

I only field strip, clean and lube mine about one a year (so once every 250 rounds or so). I do it rarely enough that I need to refer to the manual to get it back together. After shooting, I just run a bore snake with some CLP through the bore and put a dab of grease on the wear points.

My stock fits nice and tight and I don't want to loosen up the bedding by taking it apart all the time. I also store it with the trigger guard disconnected to keep the stock from compressing. You also need to use a bore guide to clean the bore with a cleaning rod. You can't use a rod from the chamber end.

Robert
March 23, 2010, 04:04 PM
I won't shoot it much i don't think
Then buy a bb gun for all the good it will do you. Owning a gun and being able to shoot it are not one in the same. If you are going to buy a Garand, a rifle that has not been state of the art in 70 years, then be ready to shoot it and train with it so that you will know how to use your rifle to the best of your ability under stress. Take a rifle class with it, run it hot, dry, in rain, in snow, and any other condition you can think of. Shoot competitions if you can and really, I mean really, learn your rifle. Otherwise you are just buying a safe queen. If that is all you want, then hey that is fine too. But if you want a "battle rifle" then you need to treat it as such and train like crazy. I believe that keeping my weapon clean is of the first order, I do not want to worry about carbon fouling in the middle of a match or target session.
But just curious how would I fare on a modern battlefield with a Garand anyways?
Not nearly as long as most Garand fans think. Sure it is a great rifle, for the 1940's, and I would love to have one. But better rifles have since been built that offer higher rates of fire and better accuracy. And if we are talking about a unit of men with Garands or Mosins facing off against a modern infantry unit then you will last about the time it takes for the bullet to reach your location.

ol' scratch
March 23, 2010, 06:57 PM
If you like surplus arms (and it sounds like you do) pick up a Garand. As far as how you would fair on a modern battlefield, if you don't have any training, not very well. Most of us probably wouldn't. It doesn't matter if you have the best of the best as far as weapons are concerned, you won't get fair if you don't know the tactics. Keep in mind that the tactics have changed since WWII and Korea.

If you are an armchair commando and are 30,40,50 pounds overweight, you probably won't fair well either. It has as much to do with your personal tools (body and mind) as the equipment you use.

As far as going to the range and popping off some rounds, I really like my Garand. Keep in mind I am a former SKS owner and convert.

Accuracy was mentioned in an earlier post. If you buy a rack grade or a beat up field grade, expect rack grade or beat up field grade accuracy. If you purchase something that has some life left in the barrel, they shoot very well. I have shot under 2 MOA using my bone stock Garand and reloads. My Garand has a barrel that gauges muzzle erosion at 1.5 and throat erosion is the same.

As far as maintenance, I clean the barrel with Gunzilla every 100 rounds when accuracy seems to fall off. I use copper solvent and get every thing ship shape. I only tear mine down once every 250-300 rounds (complete field strip and re-lube).

USSR
March 23, 2010, 07:28 PM
...will probably pay a gunsmith to fit a gas vent so i can have cheap ammo option and not reload it.

No need for a gunsmith. Simply unscrew the old gas lock screw and screw in the new adjustable one. Adjust it for the ammo you are using, and there you are. Maintenance involves 8 lube points, and other than that, it's no different than any other rifle.

Don

Ignition Override
March 24, 2010, 02:34 AM
As an alternative, have you considered a classic battle rifle design which is even simpler, costs much less than a Garand, and requires ammo at only .25/round?

If it is going to mostly wait in a safe or closet, a good Yugo or "RC" Mauser means that less money is invested. If you clean the corrosive primer residue the same day you shoot (very simple and quick), each and every time, it should keep its value.

These old full-power battle rifles are very affordable to both buy, shoot and simple to clean.

leadsled
March 24, 2010, 04:30 AM
I just recently aquired a pretty sweet H&R Garand. Have yet to shoot it. Plan to very soon! Got plenty of ammo and enbloc clips. My question is whether or not you recommend CLP. It came greased up. Even got some of those vials of grease. I prefer CLP because you don't have to worry about lubricant contamination and is pretty much all-temp. and prevents oxidation and seems to work well on my other 3 WWII era bolt guns. Also, am I correct in assuming you can fire modern ammo safely if you install the adjustable gas plug? I really like the idea of not battering the gun even when using M2 Ball. Thanks.

scythefwd
March 24, 2010, 04:35 AM
There are lube points, and there are grease points. CLP might work but I would stick with RIG grease.

USSR
March 24, 2010, 07:28 AM
"If it slides - grease it, if it turns - oil it". As previously mentioned, there are 8 points that require grease.

Don

GRIZ22
March 24, 2010, 09:08 AM
My question is whether or not you recommend CLP. It came greased up. Even got some of those vials of grease. I prefer CLP because you don't have to worry about lubricant contamination and is pretty much all-temp. and prevents oxidation and seems to work well on my other 3 WWII era bolt guns. Also, am I correct in assuming you can fire modern ammo safely if you install the adjustable gas plug? I really like the idea of not battering the gun even when using M2 Ball. Thanks.


I have fired Garands lubed only with CLP and they will work fine but the M1 is designed to run with grease. I use CLP as a protectorant and lube for small parts (trigger group etc) but use Mobil 1 grease on the grease points. I haven't seen any problem with cross contamination and the Mobil 1 grease is all temperature. When properly adjusted as per instructions you cvan use any 30-06 in a M1 with an adjustable gas plug.

I clean the bore on an M1 after every shoot and add grease if required. If you strip it down all the time you can lose the zero as it takes a few rounds for the action to settle into the stock. Match shooters usually strip down their rifles as infrequently as possible.

DMK
March 24, 2010, 09:55 AM
I use CLP and apply Lubriplate grease to the select points indicated in the manual.

FM 23-5 Field Manual for Rifle, CALIBER .30, M1 (http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/m1.htm)


(1.) Lubricating oil, general purpose (PL special) is used for lubricating the rifle at normal temeratures.

(2.) Lubricating oil, weapons (LAW) is used for low temperatures (below 0 degrees).

(3.) OE 10 engine oil may be used as a field expedient under combat conditons when the oils prescribed in (1.) and (2.) above cannot be obtained. However, the weapon should be cleaned and lubricated with the proper lubricants as soon as possible

(4.) Rifle grease should be applied to those working surfaces as shown in figure

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=118315&stc=1&d=1269438938

1KPerDay
March 24, 2010, 12:16 PM
Where are you finding a "cheap" .30-06 ammo option that's cheaper than HXP or GI M2 .30 ball?

Golden_006
March 24, 2010, 01:15 PM
Well where are you getting GI ammo that doesn't require like days drive or what not or reloading equipment?

What's HXP and why else would anyone change the gas plug?

1KPerDay
March 24, 2010, 01:16 PM
Uh... they ship, you know. :)

http://thecmp.org/ammosales.htm

1KPerDay
March 24, 2010, 01:21 PM
PS - Do you sound like a pretentious @$$ if u prononuce it: Guh-Rand instead of Gar-And
BTW the inventor's name was John GAIR-und. the rifle, however is called the Guh-RAND. Clear as mud? :uhoh:

Golden_006
March 24, 2010, 01:25 PM
No no shipping here. Don't ask

Yeah my Gar-And (first word - like name Gary without the y) is I think supposed to be the same as your Gair-And. I.e. sounds like errand. i can't tell if you're being a smart alec about the Guh-rand part.

I just looked it up in a dictionary and it lookslike you can use both. I think I'd prefer Guh-Rand. It sounds like it has the same bite as an AK-47

Flatbush Harry
March 24, 2010, 01:40 PM
People who don't want to clean or maintain firearms shouldn't have them. Tacticool types who have had no training, know nothing about fiirearms and are indisposed to read (as the OP suggested he/she/it was, given that they had "heard" the SKS didn't need to be cleaned), are dangerous to themselves when using guns. BTW, a well-trained and fit operator would do quite nicely with an M1 Garand (pronounced GAH-rund); a nincompoop would last long enough to be targeted.

Happy trails,

:rolleyes:

FH

RP88
March 24, 2010, 01:44 PM
But just curious how would I fare on a modern battlefield with a Garand anyways?

You'd fare adequately if you have proper training, or at least until a predator drone or chopper comes for you.

Driftertank
March 24, 2010, 02:25 PM
FH said kinda what I was thinkin...learn to clean your guns. In addition to making them more reliable if you ever need them, it will help you understand how they work (Garands, and indeed SKS's, are not as simple as "recoil pushes the bolt back, spring pushes it forward"). If you have any mechanical inclination whatsoever, it can be kinda fun to tear it all apart and put it back together.

I get disgusted when I go into the local Gun & Pawn here and see the price list for cleaning your guns for you. I like being able to tear apart my guns, clean and lube them, and reassemble them correctly and quickly. I am also of the opinion that, if you can't field-strip and clean your weapon, you shouldn't be shooting it. But then I'm a mechanic for a living, and I also believe if you take care of your tools, they'll take care of you.

And the garand beats the hell out of a pointy stick when it comes to people attacking you. Just wouldn't expect to take on a trained rifleman armed with, well, anything, but especially if equipped with a modern rifle.

leadsled
March 25, 2010, 04:58 AM
Thanks DMK for the great link. I bought some manuals and the pictures are low quality. I think I'll go with some modern grease instead of the Vegemite that I have now.:barf: Just because I have a rifle design that came in service 74 years ago doesn't mean I don't want to use some modern conveniences for it. BTW, I pronounce it U.S. RIFLE, CALIBER .30, M1.

Golden_006
March 25, 2010, 08:51 AM
I get disgusted when I go into the local Gun & Pawn here and see the price list for cleaning your guns for you. I like being able to tear apart my guns, clean and lube them, and reassemble them correctly and quickly. I am also of the opinion that, if you can't field-strip and clean your weapon, you shouldn't be shooting it. But then I'm a mechanic for a living, and I also believe if you take care of your tools, they'll take care of you.

How much is it? I thought I was an idiot whn I asked the FFL to clean it for me. Seems like a good idea then. Although I don't really shoot much. Sounds like the SKS could use a barrel cleaning though and I'm good to go otherwise since it was broken down and cleaned only 180 rounds ago (if that). I think I can manage barrel clean. The problem I have with cleaning it is -- I don't know how and don't really want to take it apart only to discover I didn't put it back together correctly. Also I have 2 old motorcycles that involve constant mechanical attention. I'd just as soon farm out the gun cleaning since I don't want ot be fixing stuff all the time and given the choice -- 110 an hour labor rates at the dealer sounds unreasonable to me while 30 bucks a year doesn't.

Driftertank
March 25, 2010, 10:59 AM
I never really took the time to read it, but I think they charge something like $20 for bolt actions and $30 for semi-autos or something like that. To be honest, the only time I ever read it was a moment before I asked them, "People actually come in here and PAY YOU to clean their guns FOR THEM?"

My gun cleaning is actually kind of a personal thing as well. There's a lot of people with different ideas of what constitutes gun cleaning. We've heard stories of the afghans who take a bootlace soaked in diesel fuel and pull it through their AK's. That's fine for an AK. For something as complex and tight as a Garand, that sort of treatment will land you with a broken gun in a hurry. When I clean and lube my guns, then I know exactly who to blame if something doesn't work. And in the event that I ever have to use one to defend my life or the life of a loved one, I KNOW it will work, because I was the one who made sure of it.

Eh, I'm ranting. To each his own, but I learned to shoot when I was 4 or 5 years old, and I was always taught that cleaning was a basic responsibility of shooting; if you want to shoot it, you have to clean it. I maintain that rule when my friends want to shoot with me. Seems everybody wants to do the "bang bang" part, without doing the "scrub scrub" part.

Robert
March 25, 2010, 11:40 AM
If you think cleaning a SKS after 200 rounds is daunting, try cleaning a M60 after three days and near 1500 rounds of blanks through it.

wombat13
March 25, 2010, 01:28 PM
Well where are you getting GI ammo that doesn't require like days drive or what not or reloading equipment?

What's HXP and why else would anyone change the gas plug?
I changed the gas plug so I could shoot modern hunting ammo. If you just want to shoot paper you won't be able to beat the price of the Greek HXP ammo offered by CMP. I'm assuming you aren't interested in reloading (if you don't have the time to clean your rifles, you don't have the time to reload).

essayons21
March 25, 2010, 02:33 PM
If you can't get ammo shipped to your home address for whatever reason, go set up a PO box.

If not most decently stocked gunshops have Korean, Greek, or Turkish surplus M2 ball or equivalent. Far cheaper than modern hunting ammunition and Garand safe. Most people get the adjustable gas plugs so they can shoot handloads, not to avoid them.

A Garand is more complicated than an SKS, but not a challenge for anyone with basic mechanical aptitude. As a bonus the CMP has a great how-to for detail stripping a Garand on their website.

You really should learn to strip and clean your guns. Field stripping is simple, and most guns is GI (dummy) proof. Most can't really be put back together wrong, as long as you don't have any parts leftover when you are done. Getting to know the inner workings of the gun benefits you as a shooter, will allow you to diagnose problems, and is a safety issue.

Flatbush Harry
March 25, 2010, 06:57 PM
I just finished detail stripping, cleaning, lubricating and reassembling one of my M1s...took about 1-1/2 hours...and I know it will work as designed next time I take it out. I have another two with new stocks that I want to refinish so they'll get the same treatment.

If you can't learn how to maintain a firearm, you shouldn't own or use one.

FH

dmazur
March 25, 2010, 08:11 PM
Most can't really be put back together wrong, as long as you don't have any parts leftover when you are done.

I found out the previous owner of my Garand didn't use the Internet to learn about the rifle. The follower was in backwards. (!) I've read that it is possible to assemble this in four positions, only one of which is correct. (I can only vouch for two of them.)

+1 to learning to field strip as part of owning a rifle. Especially a military rifle, which seem to be designed to be taken apart to be cleaned as part of their specifications.

Now I'm not so sure I'd want to mess with detail stripping a Winchester 1895 or a Browning BLR... :)

Driftertank
March 26, 2010, 02:25 AM
Hehe...when I buy a new gun, I typically fieldstrip it and inspect it before I take delivery. Gets me looks ranging from mildly impressed to "what a nut."

Think most people who sell guns are used to selling people who are doing well if they know how to hold one right.

Had another experience where a young guy with a brand-new AR-15 had half a dozen boxes of steel cased Wolf at the range and got 'er jammed up. He was getting ready to pack it in for the day because he didn't even know how to open it up. Me and my buddy (who was in the Corps, and intimately familiar with them) popped it open for him, popped the broken casing out, re-set the extractor, and told him AR's don't like steel. :D

In another case, another young kid with an AR had a bad round (remanned LC stuff) that popped the primer and ruptured the case, and the extractor had pulled through the case rim in the process. He was also ready to pack it in for the day. He at least knew how to open his action, but he didn't have a cleaning rod. I pulled the one off my SKS (which fits PERFECTLY in a .22 barrel, small end first), got his ruptured case out, inspected his bolt and chamber, and got him back to merrily popping away.

Did I mention I'm not a big fan of AR's? :D At least not with cheap ammo....

skidooman603
March 26, 2010, 11:01 AM
a small addition to all of the excellent advise offered up already...I use the Otis Sysytem (flexible cleaning rod) so I can clean from breech to Muzzle

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