Taurus 4510 Public Defender


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white29
March 23, 2010, 06:31 PM
Hi all. I'm getting ready to buy my first handgun,primarily for carry but also as backup to my pumpgun for HD. I was set on a Ruger GP100,though I realize it's a little large for CC.Today I noticed an ad on the back of the current American Hunter magazine that mentioned this Taurus 4510 in .45 cal. as well as .410 shotgun. I kind of like that versatility.Though I've never owned a handgun I am not totally in experienced with revolvers but would really appreciate opinions from those of you that know a lot more than I do. Thanks in advance.

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FoMoGo
March 23, 2010, 06:56 PM
Its not realistically an easier carry than the GP100, isnt as effective with the .410... with the short barrel, probably not as effective with the .45 either... and you are giving up a round of capacity.
Look for a 3" GP100.


Jim

NG VI
March 23, 2010, 07:09 PM
A GP100 would be a much better gun, especially as a first gun. I'm not a Taurus hater, but the Judge is not really a great defense gun. Except against snakes.

dagger dog
March 23, 2010, 07:18 PM
The cylinder on the .410 bore Taurus is over three inches long,IMO that makes that one ugly BIG revolver, plus Taurus's track record on reliability is not in the same class as the Ruger.

If this is your first handgun go with one that will give you the most bang for your buck, you can shoot that GP100 100 rounds a day of the hottest over the counter ammo available for a year and never have a problem, plus .357 magnum is a proven home defense round, and you can also shoot mild .38 special ammo until you get used to the magnum stuff.

white29
March 23, 2010, 09:31 PM
Ok, I'm convinced. Really all you guys are just reaffirming what I thought was true.I've heard the Taurus ain't in Ruger or SW class quality wise. GP100 3" SS in .357 it is. Thanks for the advice.

FoMoGo
March 23, 2010, 09:39 PM
Great choice!


Jim

montess85
March 23, 2010, 11:54 PM
I have a 6 inch GP and I love it

19-3Ben
March 24, 2010, 07:51 AM
Here's some reading material for you:

Thread 1 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=509890)

Thread 2 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=496316)

Thread 3 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=502900)

Cliff's notes: The Judge gets a "WOW" from the marketing perspective. And a "Meh" in real life function.

idoono
March 24, 2010, 08:54 AM
I find it interesting that everyone bashing The Judge does not own one. I bet very few have even held one much less shot one. The Judge is very good in what it was designed for. HD inside is NOT the same as shooting at a varmit outside. This statement "with the short barrel, probably not as effective with the .45 either" shows that someone is not thinking straight. A 260 grain Gold Dot through that barrel will most certainly ruin someones day. One thing the Judge is not though is a CCW gun.

For just a general revolver I would get the Ruger. Nothing wrong with it either.

idoono

19-3Ben
March 24, 2010, 09:35 AM
For the record- I have held the Judge but not shot it. It was nicely made, but the quality of construction is not the basis for my opinion that it's far less than ideal for SD.
My opinion about its SD capability is based on the ballistics of a .410 out of a short barrel.
You don't have to have shot a certain gun to know that the ballistics aren't there, just like you don't need to have ever driven a Ferrari to know that it's not ideal for pulling a fishing boat in a trailer.

Every tool has it's job. The Judge would be a fun gun to own just for slinging lead downrange and I'd like to own one. But that tool is less than ideally suited for SD duty.

NG VI
March 24, 2010, 10:01 AM
Taurus ain't in Ruger or SW class quality wise.

That isn't why I recommended against it, for the record. I haven't handled any Taurus revolvers (own a PT-22, fun gun) but there are a few posters on here whose input I greatly respect that have Taurus revolvers and love them. Good enough for me.

It's the whole .410 thing that gets me, that is a lot of free cylinder for a .45 Colt to jump before making it to useful rifling, and that same rifling means .410 buck isn't going to pattern well, barring some very unusual shot cup, and .410 slugs weigh a bit less than ninety grains. Not impressive. So it's a very much oversized .45 Colt when used solely as a defense weapon, but not critter defense. Which probably won't shoot very well because of its cylinder design.

Vonderek
March 24, 2010, 10:14 AM
I have almost never seen the .410 in full shotgun trim touted as an effective SD piece (except perhaps for frail or elderly people who are unable to control a larger gauge) yet the Judge-crowd seems to think .410 out of a shallow-rifled short barrel is the be-all, end-all SD revolver. While I for one would not opt to be a test subject on the receiving end, I still do not understand the appeal of the Judge.

Papaster
March 24, 2010, 10:25 AM
I'll weigh in a little too. Taurus revolvers in general are pretty decent bang-for-your-buck. I carry a M85 from time to time. My father-in-law carries a M617. These have both been great guns. No problems, and came in well under the price of a S&W or many of the Ruger offerings.
That said, I am in agreement with the consensus here that the Judge isn't the ideal self defense revolver. Check out these tests on The Box O' Truth. (http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm)
Additionally, 45LC & .410 shot shells are among the more difficult rounds to find in a self-defense loading. These are primarily available for Cowboy Action Shooting and bird hunting, respectively. You will find far more defensive loads available to you if you buy a .357/.38 chambered gun.
I'm sure the Ruger GP100 will be a fine handgun for you. Getting a good holster makes all the difference when it comes to concealing a handgun of any size. Learn to dress around the gun.

THplanes
March 24, 2010, 07:22 PM
I bought the judge as a range toy. But I do like to have some defence ammo for every gun I own. I tried the Win 3 pellet buck load and found it was not suitable. I could not count on all pellets hitting a full size silhouette target beyond 7 yards. I also saw from the box o truth that they would not penetrate adequately. I could not find any of the Fed buck load to try so I settled for silver tips and then corbon DPX. From looking at the BOT and this review

http://mcb-homis.com/judge/index.htm

You can see why the Win load doesn't get much penetration. They flatten out in the barrel and you get a pie plate instead of a round ball. You can see this on a paper target. One hole looks to be from a round nose projectile, the other 2 look like big fat wad-cutters. This same problem would hinder it's performance in a full size shotgun as well. Those flat plates are going to lose velocity fast and won't pattern well out of anything. The S&B buck load does better in the wet phone book penetration test because they stay round. He also gets a much better pattern with the S&B. The velocities he gets don't seem to be correct. The recoil of the S&B (878fps) round is similar to a .45 cowboy load. The Win load has more recoil and other testers have found it to be about 975 fps.

I finally found the Fed load and found that it would hold a 3 to 3.5 inch group at 7 yard. That's good enough for me. The question is will it penetrate. Here's another post on that subject from this thread.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=26851.0

"recently tested several flavors of 45 LC and 410 ammo in my Judge. I fired through four layers of denim into wetpack (soaked newsprint) from about eight feet.

Winchester Super X 225 grain Silver Tips: One round shed its jacket; jacket found at 10" and the lead at 11". The other round was nicely expanded at 13".

Speer Gold Dots 250 grain HP: Both rounds found at 14" with no expansion.

Winchester Super X 2-1/2" 1/5 oz slug: One found at 12" and one at 15".

Federal 4 pellet 000 buck: Two rounds fired, all eight pellets recovered between 10" and 13".

Paraklese Technologies* 4 pellet 0000 buck: Two rounds fired, all eight pellets recovered between 9" and 15".

Federal #4 shot and Paraklese* BB, all shot found between 4" and 5".

Note that all ammo from Paraklese was overpressure and jammed the cylinder of my Judge after each shot. All ammo has been returned to them for replacement but I haven't received it yet. When new ammo is in hand I'll repeat the test and will include Hornady Lever Revolution 225 grain LC."


Note that this is four layers of denim and into wetpack. So penetration depth will depend on how he does his packs. What's relevant is the comparison of the silver tips and the unexpanded gold dots to the Fed buck load. Penetration is on par with the silver tips and appears adequate to me.

I have the 2.5 inch cylinder version so no test of the 3 inch loads. My brother has the 3 inch chamber version. So I will eventually get around to playing with the 3 inch 5 pellet loads. If the Win uses the same pellets in the 3 inch that they use in the 2.5 inch they will likely flatten out too much. If they do it should show up on paper with holes that look like wad-cutters. Fed is coming out with a 5 pellet 3 inch load that will probably be the best choice.

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