Paypal Transaction Fee Explained


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fourdollarbill
March 24, 2010, 12:36 PM
I have noticed some questions and maybe some minor tension between sellers and buyers about PayPal fees of 3%. I remember one thread that was pretty heated and the buyer claimed to never buy from this seller again.

Well if I can interject some knowledge that should put this to rest...

ALL PayPal seller to buyer transactions up to $3K are 2.9% plus $0.30.

If the seller transacts more than $3K per month with PayPal then PayPal will reduce it to 1.9% plus $0.30 only if the seller applies for the "Merchant Rate".

If you have the "Merchant Rate" and sell below $3K per month then the transactions will be 2.9% plus $0.30 again.

So actually these sale ads should state "PayPal +2.9% +.30 cents"

Just some good info as I see the "why plus 3%" question asked a lot.

Also that will explain to many sellers why the PayPal +3% never zero's out.

(OH)

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falmike
March 24, 2010, 08:45 PM
Not to be rude, but since I fund from my bank account money I send for a "giift" goes through wihtout a fee. It's about what you call it :)

medalguy
March 24, 2010, 08:56 PM
Correct. GIFT or PERSONAL transactions are fee-free. The only drawback is there is no buyer or seller protection on these transactions. After all, it's a gift, right? :rolleyes:

fourdollarbill
March 24, 2010, 09:25 PM
Well I guess the sale ad should state:

No fee when the money comes from PayPal balance or bank account.

2.9% + $0.30 USD
when the money comes from a debit or credit card or PayPal Credit

Or better yet just add a buck to the price and say no fee's :confused:

sneedb82
March 24, 2010, 11:10 PM
Correction, if you guys have made a gift or personal, you either have to pay the fee yourself, or the fee is paid by the individual you are sending the money to............ UNLESS, you have a current balance in your Paypal account. This information is given to you in the T&C of Service from Paypal.

SciFiJim
March 25, 2010, 01:21 AM
To further complicate things, the 2.9% is also charged on the fee that is added on.

example

item sells for $100.00
$100 x 2.9% =$2.90
$2.90 x 2.9% =$0.0841
.0841 x 2.9% =$0.0024
subtotal =$102.99
plus .30
Total =$103.38

So in this case 3% does not add up to the total that PayPal charges.

1KPerDay
March 25, 2010, 01:38 AM
Correction, if you guys have made a gift or personal, you either have to pay the fee yourself, or the fee is paid by the individual you are sending the money to............ UNLESS, you have a current balance in your Paypal account. This information is given to you in the T&C of Service from Paypal.
Partically correct. If you use your linked bank account as the source there is also no fee with the "personal"/Other option.

DRYHUMOR
March 25, 2010, 04:59 AM
I've always had a problem with Paypal's cut. I try not to use them if at all possible, which is why I seldom sell on ebay anymore. Though I will admit, they have made it very convenient.

Something to consider. If you accumulate a positve balance in your account, you are essentially giving Paypal a free ride on your money. Which you are not deriving interest off of.

mongoose33
March 25, 2010, 09:40 PM
This is not unlike what merchants who accept Mastercard or Visa have to pay. I had a merchant account for nearly 10 years; I paid, roughly, 3-4 percent of every such transaction.

What PayPal is doing is analogous to giving anyone a Merchant credit card account, w/o the hassle or monthly fees of having such a merchant account.

Whether you absorb the fees as part of the price or add 3% is up to you, just like those on Gunbroker who accept MC/Visa will often add a fee if you use the credit card instead of sending check or equivalent.

I got rid of my merchant account in part because PayPal will stand in for me.

billybob44
March 25, 2010, 10:41 PM
Well I guess the sale ad should state:

No fee when the money comes from PayPal balance or bank account.

2.9% + $0.30 USD
when the money comes from a debit or credit card or PayPal Credit

Or better yet just add a buck to the price and say no fee's :confused:
That's is my thoughts, dollar. Just add 3-5% to the asking price on the sale. If it goes Money Order then you can discount 3-5%=Win-Win..

EddieNFL
March 27, 2010, 08:16 AM
I learned all I needed to about about paypal here:

http://www.aboutpaypal.org/

nsaqam
March 27, 2010, 08:38 AM
Paypal has worked each and every time I've used them as both buyer and seller.

The 3% is a price I'm willing to pay as a seller for the immediacy of payment.

I never add the Paypal +3% proviso.

You pay money when you use an ATM and often pay a fee when you do bill pay online with your creditors.

jdh
March 27, 2010, 10:39 AM
If you read the PayPal terms of service sellers are not allowed to add the fees to the transaction. If you do chose to violate the terms of service and add the 3% you have just created a downward spiral of decreasing returns. PayPal will charge you 3% on the added 3% so you need to calculate that amount and add it, then the 3% on that 3% and add it, so on and so forth.

Jimfern
March 27, 2010, 10:46 AM
I see it as I didn't have to make a trip to the post office + buy a money order so it's a wash and I also know the seller got their money.

Artiz
March 27, 2010, 11:17 AM
Didn't PayPal prohibit the use of their system to pay for guns and gun related items?

orionengnr
March 27, 2010, 11:47 AM
Didn't PayPal prohibit the use of their system to pay for guns and gun related items?
Yes, and that is why so many of us say:
"Just say "NO" to Paypal..."

Look at it this way:
You have to operate in deceit to use their service.
They are using your money to fund programs and persons who operate in a manner that is contrary to your interests.

No thank you.

Lee Roder
March 27, 2010, 12:54 PM
mongoose has it right. PP's transaction fee is no different than the one you're paying (whether you know it or not) with any other credit card. The convenience of not having to purchase a check or money order, fill it out, stamp, address, and mail an envelope, and wait, is not free. Nor should it be.

Didn't PayPal prohibit the use of their system to pay for guns and gun related items?

No, prohibition extends only to items which are "regulated"

Direct from PayPal's TOS:

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation
2. relate to sales of ... ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, ... regulated under applicable law

mtang45
March 27, 2010, 01:18 PM
I used to be a PayPal fan; very easy, very convenient. Up until last year when I was advertising AR-15 mags for sale and listed "discreet PayPal" as a payment option. I do not know if PayPal has "robots" that search text in various forums, or whether someone notified them and blew the whistle, BUT, bottom line PayPal discovered my ad, closed my account and has basically banned me for life because I violated their prohibited use policy by selling "high capacity" 30 round mags.

So I have taken up my own personal war against PayPal. PAYPAL snitches if you are reading this then, yes, its me, on my soap box campaigning against you and your anti-gun, elitist policies that violate the constitutional rights of American citizens...but hey, its your business, I'm just hoping that someday the political and financial pressure caused as a backlash against your policies make you buckle and change them, or better yet go out of business!

Members of THR.org, I would like to highly encourage you, since I assume you are all supporters of the 2nd Amendment, to drop your buying and selling using PayPal and adopt GUNPAL http://www.gunpal.com. They function nearly identical to PayPal, without the attitude and the anti-American policies. Please support them!!

mtang45
March 27, 2010, 01:26 PM
mongoose has it right. PP's transaction fee is no different than the one you're paying (whether you know it or not) with any other credit card. The convenience of not having to purchase a check or money order, fill it out, stamp, address, and mail an envelope, and wait, is not free. Nor should it be.



No, prohibition extends only to items which are "regulated"

Direct from PayPal's TOS:

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation
2. relate to sales of ... ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, ... regulated under applicable law
Ummm no, 30 round magazines are not "regulated" where I live and are not "regulated" anywhere I was selling them. But they are "regulated" in California. So unless you like having the California Communist Agenda, forced down your throat when you live in a "Free State" then by all means continue to use PayPal and continue to fund their politics!

Tinpig
March 27, 2010, 02:21 PM
I used Paypal for years with no problems. Then fraudulent PP withdrawals ranging from $50 to $500 started showing up on my bank acct. from alleged sellers of hand-lotion in Israel, or pen-and-pencil sets in Nigeria.
Paypal did reverse these fraudulent charges when I notified them but was unable to keep them from continuing. They seem to have security problems they can't deal with.

I cancelled my account and have survived very well without it.

Tinpig

The Bushmaster
March 27, 2010, 03:08 PM
Not sure what everybodies problem is...The shipping is the problem. Rather then complain about PayPal tring to make a living, work on getting the shipping down...

Kind of a waste of electrons here...

Lee Roder
March 27, 2010, 06:51 PM
Ummm no, 30 round magazines are not "regulated" where I live and are not "regulated" anywhere I was selling them. But they are "regulated" in California.

I hear you, but realize that PayPal, Inc., is domiciled in CA. A Corporation is a creature of Law and PayPal's existence is governed by the laws of California independent of your laws or your buyer's laws. And facilitating your transaction makes them very much a "part" of your transaction. So your transaction was subject to California's laws. That's why you got banned. Not because you sold "gun-related" items. You sold "regulated" gun-related items. You pitted PP against California's law potentially jeopardizing its right to exist, since it was chartered presumeably for "all lawful activities".

GunPal, Inc., similar to PayPal, Inc., in concept is alot freer, apparently just because that business in corporated OUTSIDE of California. I don't know where GunPal incorporated, but GunPal, Inc., is currently NOT a domestic California corporation.

I'm not defending PP, but PayPal may in fact have no choice in the matter.

EddieNFL
March 27, 2010, 08:34 PM
I don't pay credit card fees. I don't pay ATM fees. I don't donate to the Brady Bunch. I don't use gaypal.

Lee Roder
March 27, 2010, 09:22 PM
The interchange fee is intrinsic to this free market economy unless you are cash only

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Gao-explains-interchange-fee.gif

mtang45
March 27, 2010, 09:36 PM
I hear you, but realize that PayPal, Inc., is domiciled in CA. A Corporation is a creature of Law and PayPal's existence is governed by the laws of California independent of your laws or your buyer's laws. And facilitating your transaction makes them very much a "part" of your transaction. So your transaction was subject to California's laws. That's why you got banned. Not because you sold "gun-related" items. You sold "regulated" gun-related items. You pitted PP against California's law potentially jeopardizing its right to exist, since it was chartered presumeably for "all lawful activities".

GunPal, Inc., similar to PayPal, Inc., in concept is alot freer, apparently just because that business in corporated OUTSIDE of California. I don't know where GunPal incorporated, but GunPal, Inc., is currently NOT a domestic California corporation.

I'm not defending PP, but PayPal may in fact have no choice in the matter.
Lee, I'm not sure where you come up with your information or whether you just post based on personal speculation. The fact is GunPal is headquartered and incorporated in California. There is no state law that prohibits businesses from participating in business transactions outside of the states jurisdiction that just happens to be prohibited within their jurisdiction. That would similar to saying you had a credit card issued by a California bank, that could not be used to buy stuff anywhere in the world that was prohibited from being possessed in California, even if you are not a California resident. As we all know, that's ridiculous.

Its obvious, PayPal's purely anti-gun position is because the companies board of directors have a political agenda that includes the elimination of the 2nd Amendment. Any pro gun person that continues to use PayPal is simply funding the effort to help them do so.

PEOPLE PLEASE WAKE UP AND STOP USING PAYPAL!!

EddieNFL
March 27, 2010, 09:39 PM
Cute picture.

Lee Roder
March 27, 2010, 10:12 PM
Lee, I'm not sure where you come up with your information or whether you just post based on personal speculation. The fact is GunPal is headquartered and incorporated in California.

I have to ask you where you come up with your info. GunPal, Inc., is NOT incorporated in California, at least according to the Secretary of State's Business Portal entity search a few minutes ago

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/cbs.aspx

Searching corporate records ...

"GunPal"
Record not found

"PayPal"
Results of search for " PAYPAL " returned 3 entity records.

I'm curious to know where GunPal, Inc. IS incorporated if they're legit.

And the harsh reality of the cute picture is that ALL CONSUMERS are contributing to those fees to the card issuers, whether they pay by either cash or credit, even if they don't realize it. Merchants rarely dichotomize sale prices - cash or credit.

EddieNFL
March 28, 2010, 10:48 AM
You are certainly entitled to support and defend whatever businesses you choose. I make every attempt to avoid those blatantly anti.

My bank does not charge ATM fees or fees to write checks. My CC company credits 1.5 percent of my purchases (and, no I don't pay interest).

Yes, I'm certain a part of every dollar finds its way into the same coffers, but by avoiding companies such as gaypal and egay, I can at least minimize the amount.

I've seen the word "convenient" used to describe Paypal. Sometimes, fighting the good fight causes inconvenience, but we musteach make our own stand...or not.

ctbullseye
March 28, 2010, 11:05 AM
Paypal sucks, use Gunpal or postal MO and snail mail, nothing is needed that quick.

The Bushmaster
March 28, 2010, 11:10 AM
Hummm...ebay anti-gun? Funny...I've been purchasing reloading equipment and I believe I once saw once fired brass on there...I have also purchased gun parts from ebay. I know there are holsters and magazines on ebay too...

Ebay anti-gun? Must be another reason they stopped selling the projectile launchers...

Lee Roder
March 28, 2010, 12:05 PM
Update -

It was just pointed out to me this morning that GUNPAL is a trademark for THE CANNON GROUP OF COMPANIES, INC., a California corporation, which does business as GUNPAL, INC.

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77784325

Interestingly, documents filed with the USPTO show a current infringement dispute with PAYPAL, INC.

The fact that SOME firearms parts and accessories are apparently permitted (personal experience as both buyer and seller, dunno maybe just lucky) suggests to me that PP's stance is not based upon a political "anti-gun" stance. Look at all those "PayPal preferred" gun parts auctions running on ebay. PP's business plan is to make money for themselves, not to promote second amendment rights, further political agendas, or defend lawsuits brought by next of kin. And to that end their lawyers seem to be doing an effective job of keeping PP out of trouble.

Arguments? I love facts, especially when they prove me wrong. Because i learn something. And learning is good.

And the facts I now know definitely disprove my theory that California jurisdiction must necessarily enter PAYPAL's transactions since GUNPAL is in the same corporate boat as EBAY/PAYPAL. GUNPAL just hasn't been sued.

EddieNFL
March 28, 2010, 05:18 PM
egay policy http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms-weapons-knives.html
Restricted

Accessories and parts for guns such as butt plates, cases, cleaning supplies, dies, grips, holsters, molds, racks, pistol grips, scopes, slings, stocks, storage cases, or trigger guards. The listing must include a description of the type of firearm the accessory or part it is and what it's used for. If it doesn't, the listing may be removed.
Muzzle loader or black powder gun parts or accessories, as long as each item is offered in one listing at a time. (However, having separate listings for items that can be used to build a gun is prohibited.)


Not allowed

En-bloc clips
Firearms regardless of their ability to fire, how old they are, or their status as collectibles
Firearm kits that are used to create a firearm
Flash suppressors
Gun parts, including:
Barrels
Bolts
Choke tubes
Cylinders
Firing pins
Frames, including grip frames
Hammers
Magazines—regardless of their capacity—or magazine extenders
Receivers, including parts, upper or lower, cut, or 80 percent receivers
Slides
Trigger assemblies
Pictures of any firearms in a listing, even if the firearm is just part of the picture
Pneumatic spear guns
Powerheads, stick guns, or their equivalents because they work like firearms
Sears
Silencers
Starter pistols or blank guns, regardless of their markings
Zip guns

Meets my definition of anti-gun. Maybe I'm not "progressive" enough.

I'm certain the prohibition on pictures of firearms has saved countless lives.

Lee Roder
March 28, 2010, 09:18 PM
well ain't that a puzzle. especially since pictures of guns abound on ebay! but each fully conforms to ebay's terms of use. to paraphrase Magritte, here's a stock photo.

http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/c/00/c1/c0/50_8.JPG

ceci n'est pas une arme ŕ feu

everything pictured in a listing with this photo is for sale. i think it's a requirement. prohibiting listings which picture items NOT for sale doesn't seem anti-gun to me.

zoom6zoom
March 28, 2010, 10:00 PM
So actually these sale ads should state "PayPal +2.9% +.30 cents"
Some folks have a hard enough time figuring out 3% without adding decimals into the mix.

mtang45
March 29, 2010, 02:13 AM
well ain't that a puzzle. especially since pictures of guns abound on ebay! but each fully conforms to ebay's terms of use. to paraphrase Magritte, here's a stock photo.

http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/c/00/c1/c0/50_8.JPG

ceci n'est pas une arme ŕ feu

everything pictured in a listing with this photo is for sale. i think it's a requirement. prohibiting listings which picture items NOT for sale doesn't seem anti-gun to me.
Lee, you amaze me. Go ahead, just bury your head a little deeper in the sand. When presented with the evidence, even a list of the prohibited items, you find a picture of a gun on the cover of a book in an ebay auction, and declare ebay/paypal (same company) doesn't seem anti-gun to you.

I don't know if you are debating just to play devils advocate or what.....

EddieNFL
March 29, 2010, 09:59 AM
I don't know if you are debating just to play devils advocate or what.....

Rationalization.

The Bushmaster
March 29, 2010, 10:09 AM
And what other auction house on the internet has the variaty of items for sale/bid?

List them...

EddieNFL
March 29, 2010, 02:14 PM
And what other auction house on the internet has the variaty of items for sale/bid?

List them...
What does that have to do with the anti policies of egay and gaypal?

The Bushmaster
March 29, 2010, 02:37 PM
The question is as it is stated. No hidden agenda. Just a question...

EddieNFL
March 29, 2010, 02:43 PM
Yeah, I guess it is the Walmart of the internet.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 29, 2010, 03:37 PM
This really isn't on topic.

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