Question on shooting AR-15/M4 and AK-47.


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LoneWolrf69
March 24, 2010, 08:35 PM
Has anyone shot both of these weapons? Which one is louder both from the shooters perspective and from afar, like which one will sound louder at a distance the sharper crack of the 5.56 fired from an AR or the boom of the 7.62x39 from an AK? And are these weapons as loud as a .308?

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MarineOne
March 25, 2010, 03:49 AM
Yes.

The AK is louder, but doesn't have the sharp "crack" in the sound like the AR does. At distance the AK is still a bit louder because that "crack" from the AR isn't heard.

No, the .308 is a bit louder.



Kris

General Geoff
March 25, 2010, 03:53 AM
barrel length and existence or absence of a muzzle brake will have more varying effect on the report of mentioned calibers than the inherent difference between them.

Mr. Bojangles
March 25, 2010, 07:34 AM
I have only my own subjective experience to use. Owning both an AR-15 with 18" bbl and a birdcage, and a WASR 10 with the slanted compensator, they have very different sounds but seem equally loud to me. Of course, it's tough to tell with the ringing in my ears.

LoneWolrf69
March 25, 2010, 02:31 PM
Yes.

The AK is louder, but doesn't have the sharp "crack" in the sound like the AR does. At distance the AK is still a bit louder because that "crack" from the AR isn't heard.

No, the .308 is a bit louder.



Kris
How is the AR not heard?

lions
March 25, 2010, 02:42 PM
How is the AR not heard?

MarineOne is saying the sonic crack wouldn't be heard. I'm not sure in which direction the sonic crack wouldn't be heard from, but the muzzle blast would still be audible for a certain distance.

LoneWolrf69
March 25, 2010, 02:58 PM
MarineOne is saying the sonic crack wouldn't be heard. I'm not sure in which direction the sonic crack wouldn't be heard from, but the muzzle blast would still be audible for a certain distance.
Ah I get it, I think the sonic crack would be heard down range but not at a distance.

ny32182
March 25, 2010, 03:07 PM
As the shooter, I'd say they are both about the same, barring any sort of ridiculous muzzle break.

Close, and not the shooter: I find the carbine ARs to be more concussive and higher pitched.

Further out: I haven't really compared, but I'd expect the AK's lower tone to carry a bit further.

I'd expect .308 to carry further than either.

As the shooter, or close to the shooter, you can't really hear the sonic crack at all over the muzzle blast. Further out, you could differentiate the sonic crack from the muzzle blast because they would be coming from different directions: The muzzle blast from the direction of the gun, and the sonic crack from a direction perpendicular to the path of the bullet.

LoneWolrf69
March 25, 2010, 05:36 PM
As the shooter, I'd say they are both about the same, barring any sort of ridiculous muzzle break.

Close, and not the shooter: I find the carbine ARs to be more concussive and higher pitched.

Further out: I haven't really compared, but I'd expect the AK's lower tone to carry a bit further.

I'd expect .308 to carry further than either.

As the shooter, or close to the shooter, you can't really hear the sonic crack at all over the muzzle blast. Further out, you could differentiate the sonic crack from the muzzle blast because they would be coming from different directions: The muzzle blast from the direction of the gun, and the sonic crack from a direction perpendicular to the path of the bullet.
If the AR is louder up close then wouldn't it still be louder from afar?

jobu07
March 25, 2010, 07:17 PM
It's really easy to tell the two apart at a distance if they are fired in bursts. AK's have a slightly deeper report in my opinion. A 240 and a PKM also have very distinct reports. A lot of of the ease with detecting what type of rifle or machine gun fired the round has to do with its rate of fire. For me anyway.

lions
March 25, 2010, 09:35 PM
"This is the AK-47 assault rifle, the preferred weapon of your enemy. It makes a distinctive sound when fired at you. So remember it."

Quote by Gunny Highway Clint Eastwood as Gunnery Sgt. Tom 'Gunny' Highway, After firing at his troops in Heartbreak Ridge 1986

Couldn't help myself.:D

Tirod
March 25, 2010, 09:48 PM
At the other end of your shooting life, you'll be glad you were trying to hear the difference with some sort of hearing protection. The alternative is not hearing well at all.

Many of us have used protectors most of our life, but some of us still hear the ringing, and it slowly gets louder as time goes by. It's no fun having the "cell phone test ring" permanently enabled.

BTW, because the AK does have a distinctly different sound, and it can be used to direct fire to it's source, it's a wonder some survived Vietnam shooting them. :evil:

Enachos
March 25, 2010, 10:19 PM
5.56 rounds have on hell of a "crack". that's for sure

Bones11b
March 26, 2010, 10:31 AM
Outdoors they both sound different but about as loud as each other to me. Indoors though is where I notice that the AK is actually quite a bit louder.

LoneWolrf69
March 26, 2010, 02:10 PM
It's really easy to tell the two apart at a distance if they are fired in bursts. AK's have a slightly deeper report in my opinion. A 240 and a PKM also have very distinct reports. A lot of of the ease with detecting what type of rifle or machine gun fired the round has to do with its rate of fire. For me anyway.
Are both weapons equally loud at a distance when fired in burst apart from the pitch difference?

ny32182
March 26, 2010, 02:13 PM
I'd expect the AK to be slightly more audible at a greater distance due to the lower frequency carrying further.

cbrgator
March 26, 2010, 03:20 PM
It really all depends on the muzzle brake.

LoneWolrf69
March 26, 2010, 05:31 PM
I'd expect the AK to be slightly more audible at a greater distance due to the lower frequency carrying further.
Never heard them at a distance myself but I would expect that since their both rifles shots with around the same dB level, they would both carry over a long ways.

The higher pitch of the 5.56 is due to the faster bullet and I don't see why a rifle will be less noisy just because it fires a faster bullet, in this case almost 1000 fps faster.

jobu07
March 26, 2010, 08:12 PM
Lonewolf,

Yes, in my experience they are equally loud at a distance. Muzzle devices can play a role in how the sound carries, though. The pitch of the sound is different, as everyone as mostly agreed to here, and you can tell that. Rates of fire from each weapon also are differ greatly as well. Once you've been around it enough your ear becomes "trained" or "atuned" to what each round sounds like. Even less than 100 meters away rapid gunfire can sound like a series of pops anyway.

A quick experiment you can do without joining the military. If you have access to an AR-15 and an AK patterend rifle, have a friend fire each one at the range of your choice while you are standing, 10 meters away, 50 meters, 100 meters, up to even a mile if possible. Have your friend fire single shots and rapid chains of single shots. Anything on the barrel of each weapon will alter the sound, but they're each weapon's sound is pretty close regardless of device.

LoneWolrf69
April 13, 2010, 05:05 PM
Lonewolf,

Yes, in my experience they are equally loud at a distance. Muzzle devices can play a role in how the sound carries, though. The pitch of the sound is different, as everyone as mostly agreed to here, and you can tell that. Rates of fire from each weapon also are differ greatly as well. Once you've been around it enough your ear becomes "trained" or "atuned" to what each round sounds like. Even less than 100 meters away rapid gunfire can sound like a series of pops anyway.

A quick experiment you can do without joining the military. If you have access to an AR-15 and an AK patterend rifle, have a friend fire each one at the range of your choice while you are standing, 10 meters away, 50 meters, 100 meters, up to even a mile if possible. Have your friend fire single shots and rapid chains of single shots. Anything on the barrel of each weapon will alter the sound, but they're each weapon's sound is pretty close regardless of device.
Sorry it took so long to reply I know this thread is old but thanks for answering, I had a feeling if both rifles are equally loud up close it would be the same from afar.

Juice Boxes
April 14, 2010, 12:54 AM
Is a rifles report just a product of its pressure or is their more to it?

I understand bbl length and muzzle attachments differ, but those things aside. Wouldn't
a standard 16in barrel with no attachments be louder in a .223 than a 7.62x39. I have no idea if this is true Im just thinking.

LoneWolrf69
April 14, 2010, 01:45 PM
Is a rifles report just a product of its pressure or is their more to it?

I understand bbl length and muzzle attachments differ, but those things aside. Wouldn't
a standard 16in barrel with no attachments be louder in a .223 than a 7.62x39. I have no idea if this is true Im just thinking.
Thats what I have been told yes, never fired them side by side but I have read that a 16in AR in 5.56 is louder than a 16in AK in 7.62x39. Perhaps someone can verify this?

RP88
April 14, 2010, 02:27 PM
I have only shot an AK and my middie AR. Both of those are 16" barrels. I'd imagine that there may be some slight difference between a 20", 16", and 14.5" barrel from AR-platformed weapons - at least from the shooters' perspectives

The AK, regardless, is definitely more of a booming sound as the shooter.

cougar1717
April 14, 2010, 03:17 PM
The shooter's perspective of loudness is skewed due to the recoil of firing. A simple decibel meter would give a quantitative number instead of a "louder than" or "quieter than". Without a dB meter, sporting guns might be able to be compared based on the amount of powder, but anything with a muzzle brake/flash hider depends a lot on the design of the brake.

LoneWolrf69
April 15, 2010, 02:57 PM
The shooter's perspective of loudness is skewed due to the recoil of firing. A simple decibel meter would give a quantitative number instead of a "louder than" or "quieter than". Without a dB meter, sporting guns might be able to be compared based on the amount of powder, but anything with a muzzle brake/flash hider depends a lot on the design of the brake.
What effect does a military flash hider have on the muzzle blast for the shooter and down range?

goon
April 15, 2010, 06:52 PM
Honestly, I'm not really sure anymore.
An AK is loud without a brake and as noted, does have a "distinctive" sound. IIRC, a FAL with a brake is VERY loud compared to either.

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