The correct name for 30.06 ?


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tercel89
March 25, 2010, 02:10 PM
WHat is the correct pronunciation for the caliber .30.06 ?
People say "thirty ought six" all the time and I dont understand .
I am a part-time/hobby mechanic and I deal with numbers and letters when determaning things and in engines , you got to be specific , and to me I call it "thirty zero six" .
What is the proper way to say this cartidge ? It has bugged me for 20 yrs!
When we use 00 buck for qualifications at work , I always say "double zero buck" and people look at me weird . It too has the word "ought" . Why is this ?

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jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 02:13 PM
"thirty zero six" it was accepted by the United States military in 19aught6 not 19zero6..

ShootinDave
March 25, 2010, 02:15 PM
Its a 30 cal..... released in 1906.

30.06

Ought is an old english expression for "zero".

mljdeckard
March 25, 2010, 02:16 PM
My great-great grandfather isn't around to ask how it caught on, but it did.

If you want to be so esoteric that being correct is more important than people knowing what the heck you are talking about, you can call it the 7.62x63.

Pulsar
March 25, 2010, 02:17 PM
ought means zero

i have always said ought

edit - you guys are fast

gondorian
March 25, 2010, 02:18 PM
Because zero represents a quantity of nothing, and aught means nothing, so people say aught to represent zero, which is nothing (sort of). As far as I know ought usually means should, not nothing.

essayons21
March 25, 2010, 02:18 PM
watch a few english football matches... ought = nil = zero

ArmedBear
March 25, 2010, 02:19 PM
It's not 30.06, though. That's a law code in Texas, I think.

It's .30-06 or .30-'06 Springfield, meaning .30 caliber, M1906 (the military designation of the original standard cartridge, adopted in 1906), Springfield Armory.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 25, 2010, 02:22 PM
The etymology is ought comes from the word aught (meaning zero or nothing) which is an alteration of the words "a naught" being run together in English. At least that is what Merriam-Webster says.

It does remind me that every now and then I would hear some old timer call it "thirty-nawt six"

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 02:24 PM
You are correct ArmedBear but unless you live in Texas 30.06 means nothing. When I first saw that being posted about I had to scratch my head until I learned they weren't talking about a caliber. Having said that though anytime I see 30.06,.30-06 or even .30-'06 I'm pretty sure a caliber of rifle is being talked about.

Gregaw
March 25, 2010, 02:31 PM
At least tennis players didn't have anything to do with it, otherwise it could be pronounced 'thirty love six'. :P

Gregaw
March 25, 2010, 02:33 PM
Although... The way some people talk about that caliber it might be appropriate.

Abel
March 25, 2010, 02:35 PM
I am a part-time/hobby mechanic and I deal with numbers and letters when determaning things and in engines , you got to be specific , and to me I call it "thirty zero six" .


Well, don't be such a left-brained, math-minded robot. You need to get some art! 30-06 is as artful a name as you'll find anywhere.

earlthegoat2
March 25, 2010, 02:42 PM
I am prone to calling it the thirty-oh-six just to be different and to make sure the fellas are paying attention.

Sometimes I will say seven millimeter ought eight as well for the same reasons.

twocrows
March 25, 2010, 02:47 PM
Seems like much ado about 'nothing' to me.

tercel89
March 25, 2010, 03:02 PM
thanks guys , that helps a bunch !

Uncle Mike
March 25, 2010, 03:07 PM
I always say "double zero buck" and people look at me weird

...and well they should! lol

Say it like you want...but it is thirty-ought-six! You ought to know that...oughten you?

Back in nineteen and ought six.... you young guys just do not git it! lol

TexasRifleman
March 25, 2010, 03:10 PM
OK so if'n it's Thirty Ought Six because it was adopted in 19 ought six, why is it .45-70?

.45-70 was adopted in 1873 :evil:

Well, the "70" was the grains of blackpowder used in the load.

So I guess the naming convention switched when they went to smokeless?

And no, it doesn't matter, but it's interesting.

Vern Humphrey
March 25, 2010, 03:14 PM
The correct name is "United States Cartridge, Caliber .30, Model of 1906."

rcmodel
March 25, 2010, 03:14 PM
To further complicate the issue.
The 1903 Springfield for which the original 30-03 caliber was invented, was/is called the Oh Three or 03 Springfield. Not the Aught three, Naught three, or Zero three Springfield.
Then the cartridge was redesigned and the new 30-06 caliber adopted in 1906.

So you now have an Oh Three Springfield shooting a Thirty Aught Six.
Not the Thirty Oh Six.

Clear as mud, right?

rc

Ian Sean
March 25, 2010, 03:27 PM
7.62 x 63 :D

HexHead
March 25, 2010, 03:34 PM
OK so if'n it's Thirty Ought Six because it was adopted in 19 ought six, why is it .45-70?

.45-70 was adopted in 1873 :evil:

Well, the "70" was the grains of blackpowder used in the load.

So I guess the naming convention switched when they went to smokeless?

And no, it doesn't matter, but it's interesting.
.30-30 is the anomaly then. First centerfire smokeless rifle cartridge (1894), yet the nomenclature would leave you to believe 30 grains of black powder. I don't think it was ever a black powder cartridge?

ArmedBear
March 25, 2010, 03:50 PM
.30-30 is the anomaly then. First centerfire smokeless rifle cartridge (1894), yet the nomenclature would leave you to believe 30 grains of black powder. I don't think it was ever a black powder cartridge?

It never was. But neither was the earlier .30-40 Krag.:) The .30-30 was the first commercial smokeless cartridge. The .30-30 used 30 grains of smokeless; the .30-40 used 40 grains.

I believe that it soon became apparent that there would be many kinds of smokeless powder, so powder weight no longer meant anything. The old BP naming convention was then dropped, and we ended up with cartridge names that are made for the trivia buff. They're not all that shooter-friendly, with a few exceptions.

If you were to ask someone who didn't know about rifles to sort .30-30, .30-06, .308 Winchester, .30 TC, .300 RCM, .300 WSM, .300 WinMag, .300 WbyMag, .300 SAUM, .300 RUM, etc. in order of velocity, it wouldn't be easy.:)

adobewalls
March 25, 2010, 03:56 PM
Speaking of Double Naught...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5aNn4Sfmas

CoastiesDad
March 25, 2010, 04:11 PM
Is it a scale a rule or ruler. Old time die maker.

Float Pilot
March 25, 2010, 04:21 PM
.30-30 is the anomaly then. First center-fire smokeless rifle cartridge (1894)
You forgot the .30 US Army, also known as the 30-40 Krag. It was smokeless as well.

By the way:
Winchester started working on the smokeless 30-30 in 1891, this was a spin -off of their work with the Army on the 30 US Army (30-40 Krag) round.
The resultant .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS cartridge which carried the .30 W.C.F. (Winchester Center Fire) designation on the head stamp, first appeared in Winchester's catalog No. 55, dated August, 1895.
Union Metallic Cartridge Company (U.M.C.) was contracted to make a copy of this cartridge for Marlin. So the name 30-30 was born. Sotra how the 38WFC became the 38-40..

Also the 30-30 was not the first Smokeless powder rifle cartridge.
The 8mm Lebel was introduced in 1886
7.65 x53mm Belgian Mauser (Argentine) adopted 1889
6.5 x 55mm Swede / Norweigen Mauser, 1891
30 US Army (30-40 Krag) 1892
7x57mm Mauser 1892
303 Savage 1894
6mm Lee Navy 1894, ( a rimmed version was tried in 1891.)
303 British converted to Smokeless in the 1890s
6.5x50mm Semi-Rimmed (6.5x50SR) Japan 1897

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 04:30 PM
( lmao ) .. some say tomate-o , some say to-motto .. good lord 20 + postings about
'Semantics ? ? .. Then you might as well include : where in the dictionary do you find 'YALL .. i'll bet this poor guy will never post on here again !

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 04:32 PM
Y'ALL y'all
Southern 2nd person plural pronoun. Most concise and easily distinguished. Despite the assurance of some emails that have been passing around, "y'all" is plural. Not to be used as a singular pronoun.

Float Pilot
March 25, 2010, 04:38 PM
Saw a John Wayne movie where he referred to 1903 as Ninteen Ought-Three or Ought-Three,

I propose that we shootist now start referring to the current year as Ought-Ten, next year as Ought-Eleven and so on....

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 04:40 PM
current year as Ought-Ten two thousand aught nine(and the other 8 years prior) would work but two thousand aught ten won't.

shockwave
March 25, 2010, 04:47 PM
two thousand aught nine would work but two thousand aught ten won't.

Back in the late '90s, we language types were wrestling with what to call the coming decade. So, naturally we looked back to the 1900s to see what they did about the problem. They went with "naughts" (later corrupted to "aughts" as Bartholomew notes above, do to euphony). But we couldn't because the term is archaic and only survives today in such terms as "thirty-ought-six" and "double-naught buck." The word "ought" is separate and stems from the verb "to owe."

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 04:54 PM
we language types do to euphony I'm sure you meant to say DUE? ie;because of.(I couldn't resist.)

Bartholomew Roberts
March 25, 2010, 04:56 PM
Well, "the naughties" does pretty well describe the last decade.

Mr_Pale_Horse
March 25, 2010, 04:58 PM
The "Aughties" or "Aughts" were the common term to describe the first decade of the 20th century. Technically, 2000-2009 were also "Aughties" but that term had fallen out of common parlance.

Anyway, anything designated by a year in that decade were commonly 19 aught _.

dovedescending
March 25, 2010, 04:59 PM
:scrutiny:

You guys remind me of my wife and her English-major girlfriends.

Owen
March 25, 2010, 05:00 PM
a scale is for measuring, a rule is a guideline or law, and a ruler is for making a straight line.

fguffey
March 25, 2010, 05:01 PM
and I have two barrels stamped 30 Govt 06, one is a Model 30 Remington the other a model 70 Winchester

F. Guffey

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 05:09 PM
y'all
Southern 2nd person plural pronoun. Most concise and easily distinguished. Despite the assurance of some emails that have been passing around, "y'all" is plural. Not to be used as a singular pronoun.
.. thanks for the proper usage thereof .. I had better pass on your detailed
explanation to my 'best bud, who is a GA. 'self proclaimed 'cracker' .. he has been using it the way i did, as that's how his last (5) years of daily emails have arrived here .. I'm guessing Merriam Webster wasn't southern ? ( just yankin your chain bud ) lol

TexasRifleman
March 25, 2010, 05:12 PM
a scale is for measuring, a rule is a guideline or law, and a ruler is for making a straight line.

That one doesn't seem to hold up either:

Folding rule
United States Patent 5735058
"An extendable measuring rule comprises a main frame and an extension element. "

Isn't it funny how that stuff varies over the years and region to region? Totally useless but very interesting information LOL

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 05:15 PM
I'm guessing Merriam Webster wasn't southern ? Yeah and you can't fake it. It's real or it's wrong! (FWIW,the Merriams were from Massachusetts) I just checked and "Y'ALL IS in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary.

noob_shooter
March 25, 2010, 05:20 PM
i always use, "30 - o (as the o in the alphabets) and 6

reloadergriz
March 25, 2010, 07:34 PM
Yeah and you can't fake it. It's real or it's wrong! (FWIW,the Merriams were from Massachusetts) I just checked and "Y'ALL IS in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary.
why mr. jimmyray you are a true fighter ! .. I do appreciate your follow-up and it seems a person is never too old to learn ! .. THANKYOU !!!!!

Tirod
March 25, 2010, 08:18 PM
Y'all are missing out on other facets of American regionalism. When I hear someone asking for parts, I have to clarify if they are for a 2000 Ford Taurus, or a "two thousand four" Taurus.

Mechanics seem to be moving to "Oh" as a precedent, as in "Oh Four" Taurus. Solves the year problem concisely and makes sense.

The older nomenclature fits for the time period invented. These days we get to play with metrics, like five five six, six, six five, six eight, seven, seven six two. Then stuff like three oh eight, three eighty, and three three eight comes along.

Is that Glock a forty, or is one on the pintle mount of the HMMV? Did you pick up an carbine with M2 cuts in the '70's, or did your M2 cut your fingers checking the headspace? OUch!

Pretty simple compared to a '88 383 stroker with .30 over and a .10/.10 crank and rods.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 25, 2010, 08:19 PM
Ought is an old english expression for "zero".

If I'm not mistaken "naught" is the old expression for zero, not "ought" or "aught" - BUT, over time, the 'n' dropped off as it's much easier to quickly roll it off the tongue without pronouncing the consonant at the beginning - hence " 'aught" or "ought" or "ot", or in shorthand, simply a ' , with the ' representing the zero or "naught" in "1906", and also dropping off the 19 of course.

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 08:21 PM
'88 383 stroker with .30 over and a .10/.10 crank and rods. Mopars Rule! Oh wait I'm a Ford man..10/.10 crank and rods Better to get a crank kit ,preferrably a forged one.

shockwave
March 25, 2010, 08:33 PM
If I'm not mistaken "naught" is the old expression for zero, not "ought" or "aught" - BUT, over time, the 'n' dropped off as it's much easier to quickly roll it off the tongue

Not exactly, but sort of correct. The fruit we call an "orange" was originally a "naranj" but linguistic patterning of "an naranj" eventually became "an orange" (suspected development, still hypothetical). This happened again probably because people were constantly saying things like, "In naught-6 we had a drought..." and the second 'n' was found superfluous, eventually giving "aught."

As for "y'all," as a transplanted Yankee I've had years to study this term and have found its usage to be a bit complex. There's "y'all" meaning "you-all" and also "y'all" meaning "you-and-people-like-you." The second version is a kind of extended-singular and is somewhat similar to the usage of "staff" and team sports names, like the "Utah Jazz," where the selection of a singular or plural coordinating verb is predicated on the sense of the referent. (What a great thread drift!)

JWF III
March 25, 2010, 08:37 PM
The correct name is "United States Cartridge, Caliber .30, Model of 1906."

Was beaten to my answer. But I will add that it (1906) was "nineteen hundred and six".

Wyman

smokeyandthebandit05
March 25, 2010, 08:38 PM
Ive either used 30 odd 6 or 30 aught (or whatever) 6

deadeye1122
March 25, 2010, 08:56 PM
Why not delete the decimal point and say three thousand six. That how it's some time said by more knowlagable older hunters at the local gun shop up north here.

huckster
March 25, 2010, 09:01 PM
To heck with all that...

I say:

"Hand me a boolit. I'll grab a gun to fit it."

Tirod
March 25, 2010, 09:02 PM
So how did the X as in "inch caliber X mm" become "by?"

"I believe the seven six two by thirty nine is superior to any cartridge ever made!"

But the .30-30 - which has a dash in the nomenclature to distinguish the components, doesn't get used - "The thirty thirty is the same thing, great short range deer killer, but certainly not the end all be all."

The things we say . . .

jimmyraythomason
March 25, 2010, 09:04 PM
Why not delete the decimal point and say three thousand six. That how it's some time said by more knowlagable older hunters at the local gun shop up north here. Those knowledgeable old hunters would be talking nonsense if they tried that down here. NOBODY would know what they were talking about.

thebaldguy
March 25, 2010, 09:46 PM
I've always spoke it as "thirty oh six". It's a .30 cal that was first made in 1906 (I say that as "nineteen oh six"). Made sense to me.

My Dad always pronounced it as "thirty ought six". A lot of folks say it that way as well.

bobelk99
March 25, 2010, 10:22 PM
A scale is a rule, a ruler is a King (Queen):evil:

And I can't even use a file properly.

Ain't this a heck of a way to pass the time. There is no funner way to spend an evening, once you pass 100 (years). or at least it seems like a 100 sometimes.

cougar1717
March 26, 2010, 05:02 PM
Just realized that I've been saying "thirty odd six" for ten years now. Ignorance was bliss!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 26, 2010, 05:21 PM
Shockwave:

The fruit we call an "orange" was originally a "naranj" but linguistic patterning of "an naranj" eventually became "an orange" (suspected development, still hypothetical). This happened again probably because people were constantly saying things like, "In naught-6 we had a drought..." and the second 'n' was found superfluous, eventually giving "aught."

That's exactly what I was trying to say! After the 1900s, people who had lived in the 1900s (before 1910) would tell stories to the young'ens, which began with the line "Back in naught six [or naught five or...], ...", and over time, to the younger generations, who didn't refer to any of they decades which THEY had lived in with a "naught", didn't really how to spell this shorthand exactly since they didn't use it themselves, and they heard this orally/phonetically as "back in aught six", rather than "back in naught six", as you say, seemingly rendering 1 'N' out of two. The N on the end of in could't go away, but the N in naught could be eliminated easily. I suspect we are exactly right on this.

Now, think on this for a second, though.... really, the correct way to type this phrase out with numbers and symbols rather than words, should be:

.30-'6

NOT .30-'06 as we do, because the naught or aught stands for zero, in which case .30-'06 would really mean ".30-006, and we're not nearly close to year 19,006 YET! (though I wouldn't be surprised of some people are still shooting this cartridge 17,000 years into the future!)

jimmyraythomason
March 26, 2010, 05:55 PM
"Naught" became "aught" much the same way that "el lagarto" (Spanish for lizard) became "alligator". Say something often enough and if becomes standardized

paducahrider
March 27, 2010, 11:10 PM
Howdy.
Just to show that every rule has exceptions, I give you the 38-40 Winchester Centerfire (WCF).
It's definitely not a .38 caliber, as it uses .401 (or thereabouts) bullets, and was not always loaded with 40 grains of powder, but many times only 38 grains.
By rights, this cartridge could (should) have been named the 40-38 Winchester Centerfire (WCF).
Marketing decisions sometimes overrule common sense.
Thanks for your time.

Art Eatman
March 28, 2010, 08:51 AM
I started in with the "oh-six" in 1950. Folks who were old-timers in 1950 sometimes referred to the cartridge as the "ought-six". In today's world, that usage is mostly nostalgia or a tad tongue-in-cheek. Maybe picked up from one of us old folks who picked it up from older old folks. :)

I dunno. In any serious discussion of loads and ballistics, I refer to it as the oh-six. Sorta playing games in casual chit-chat, I might refer to it as the ought-six...

I've never, ever, heard, "3-zero-zero-6".

LIke Lindy Cooper wrote, "There aren't many things that can't be fixed, with seven-hundred dollars and a thirty-ought-six."

nitetrane98
March 28, 2010, 11:59 AM
LIke Lindy Cooper wrote, "There aren't many things that can't be fixed, with seven-hundred dollars and a thirty-ought-six."


Art,
Thanks for attributing that quote to Lindy Cooper. I read that quote somewhere years ago but didn't recall what the dollar amount was. I kind of always took it as a testament to the versatility of the .30-'06 and the dollar amount was probably subject to inflation.
Dad's only deer rifle was a "30 aught six Enfield army rifle". It's what I learned to call the round and do so to this day.

Tinpig
March 28, 2010, 12:32 PM
And what we call "Tic-Tac-Toe" is still called "Noughts & Crosses" in England.
:)
Tinpig

scythefwd
March 28, 2010, 12:37 PM
Aught is a term used commonly in guns. 00 buckshot is pronounced how? You see it very commonly used with regard to shot size.

That not suit your fancy... as a mechanic you sure have heard of 0000 (4 aught) steel wool right?

That said, who cares how who says it. It is the message, not the delivery. If you can't get past the delivery to the message, then you should just walk away, because communications isn't happening anyways.

jimmyraythomason
March 28, 2010, 02:06 PM
Aught is a term used commonly in guns. and electrical wire sizes and steel wool coarseness.

Mike J
March 28, 2010, 02:24 PM
Thx adobewalls- I hadn't seen that in a really long time.

BudW
March 28, 2010, 04:25 PM
ought x ought = ought

Vern Humphrey
March 28, 2010, 04:25 PM
By rights, this cartridge could (should) have been named the 40-38 Winchester Centerfire (WCF).
Actually, it was officially named the ".38 Winchester Centeral Fire (WCF)." The moniker ".38-40" was bestowed on it by the public, not by Winchester.

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