why is an AK's muzzle slanted?


PDA






noob_shooter
March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM
http://www.classicarms.us/images/ROMAKMVBPS1.jpg

no crown? how does this make it accurate at all?

If you enjoyed reading about "why is an AK's muzzle slanted?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
WardenWolf
March 25, 2010, 11:47 PM
It's not the muzzle. It's actually a screw-on muzzle brake. It's slanted to cause gas to vent unevenly upwards, thereby countering part of the AK's muzzle rise in full auto and rapid-fire scenarios.

noob_shooter
March 25, 2010, 11:49 PM
ah.. thanks..

RyanM
March 25, 2010, 11:49 PM
It also reduces the amount of dust kicked up when firing prone, which could give away the shooter's position.

4,000th post. Yay.

Coronach
March 25, 2010, 11:51 PM
...and, according to some, the slant brake does have a detrimental effect on accuracy of any given shot (as opposed to its more general effect on muzzle rise in rapid-fire scenarios).

Mike

WardenWolf
March 25, 2010, 11:55 PM
Correct that slant brakes do have a detrimental affect on overall accuracy. They also don't do anything for the recoil, which is why I purchased an AK-74-style brake for my AK-47. It gives me the recoil reduction and muzzle rise prevention.

carbine85
March 26, 2010, 01:42 PM
I think it's suppose to be turned to the right at about the 1-2 Oclock position and not straight up at 12:00. Mine has a notch in it for a pin and it sits at about 1:00
The one in the picture looks like it's at 12:00.

HPJeep
March 26, 2010, 07:10 PM
I thought it was for Century Arms monkeys to know when the front sight is canted to be perfectly in line with the brake! :D

DMK
March 26, 2010, 08:05 PM
Technically speaking, isn't the "slant brake" actually a "slant compensator" since it only compensates for muzzle climb and not recoil?


I think it's suppose to be turned to the right at about the 1-2 Oclock position and not straight up at 12:00. Mine has a notch in it for a pin and it sits at about 1:00Yes, that is correct. It should only have one notch and that should match up with the pin so it is angled to the right. The angle is supposed to compensate for the rifle's tendency to pull up and to the side when shooting full auto.


For a semi-auto, this doesn't really help in any way. If you look at pics taken overseas, even many AKMs in military service just have a muzzle nut covering the threads.

Coronach
March 26, 2010, 08:20 PM
Here's a question...do they make any other muzzle devices that utilize the same attachment method (threading and the spring-loaded pin)?

Mike

14mogul
March 26, 2010, 08:32 PM
As to the 1:00 orientation of the break.
true if you're right handed, 11:00 if you're a lefty
It's adjustable........

akolleth
March 26, 2010, 08:34 PM
Coronach: Yes, the vast majority of all the various styles of brakes, muzzle nuts, slant comps, etc.. for the Ak-47 and 74 use the same retaining method.

They are srewed onto threads on either the barrel or on a threaded portion of the front sight block, and finally held in place with a detent pin that engages a groove on the device to keep it from unscrewing during use.

akolleth
March 26, 2010, 08:41 PM
Here is a visual of some of the more common types out there

Muzzle nut
http://powercustom.com/store/images/barrel_nut.jpg

Slant type
http://www.code3tactical.com/images/products/detail/Tapco_AK47_Slant_Muzzle_Brake.jpg

Ak-74 type
http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/images/AK_74bm.jpg

Conical type (Krinkov)
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/465079.jpg

Tantal brake
https://www.apexgunparts.com/images/Tantal/Tantal%20Brake.JPG

Bear 45/70
March 26, 2010, 09:13 PM
Actually the slant brake should be canted slightly to the right to counter the ejection of the brass along with the muzzle rise. The right or left handedness of the shooter is irrelevant.

Coronach
March 27, 2010, 12:51 AM
Coronach: Yes, the vast majority of all the various styles of brakes, muzzle nuts, slant comps, etc.. for the Ak-47 and 74 use the same retaining method.Cool. I own a couple of AKs, but only one has any muzzle device, and it is the aforementioned slant brake/comp. Oddly enough, it is the least accurate of my AKs. ;)

Is there a consensus on which of the devices using that attachment method is the most effective at flash suppression and recoil reduction? I may want to switch it out and see how it does with a better device.

Mike

The_Pretender
March 27, 2010, 01:23 AM
The idea was that for a right handed shooter the muzzle had a tendency to climb up and to the right when shooting full auto.

The slant supposedly helps force it down and to the left.

I wouldn't worry about accuracy. The AK was designed for killing men. Not driving nails.

That is a point brought up typically by those that want to be down on the rifle. Not always. But typically.

Bear 45/70
March 27, 2010, 02:37 AM
Why would there ever be a tendency to move to the right? The brass is ejected to the right so the gun moves left, regardless of how the gun is held. I never saw a slant brake put on by the military that was canted any way other than slightly to the right. And I saw a lot of battlefield dropped AKs.

Your are so right about the accuracy thing. The AR morons think that MOA is a battlefield requirement, where in all reality minute of man is about 8" in diameter. Every SHTF weapons I have are AKs because reliability is more important the accuracy in most battles and if I want MOA I have a couple of sub MOA rifles for that.

Deus Machina
March 27, 2010, 02:47 AM
The brass ejecting doesn't move the rifle in either direction. There's no weight to it, it's not anchored to force any motion as it moves out, and it doesn't have the recoil behind it that the bullet does.

It's a leverage thing. Your shoulder is rounded and moved to create an angle to the right, and the rifle follows.

It may also be that the bolt assembly is heavier on that side (the handle, mostly) or that the drag from the brass slowing down on the left as it hits the ejector moves the carrier to the right, so all the inertia shifts there.

Bear 45/70
March 27, 2010, 03:34 AM
The brass ejecting doesn't move the rifle in either direction. There's no weight to it, it's not anchored to force any motion as it moves out, and it doesn't have the recoil behind it that the bullet does.

It's a leverage thing. Your shoulder is rounded and moved to create an angle to the right, and the rifle follows.

It may also be that the bolt assembly is heavier on that side (the handle, mostly) or that the drag from the brass slowing down on the left as it hits the ejector moves the carrier to the right, so all the inertia shifts there.
By your theory there is no recoil either. I believe that "For every action there is an equal and opposite action" and throwing brass is an action. Have you ever even fired and AK on full auto? I have and guarantee there is a reaction to ejecting of the brass out of the receiver.

Deus Machina
March 27, 2010, 04:38 AM
How is there no recoil in my theory? The bullet has powder propelling it and putting force back--as previously mentioned--and flinging the bolt and carrier back. The brass does not. It's just getting tossed out the side, and would hardly impart much in the way of reaction against an eight-pound rifle. Any reaction would be from the casing not ejecting how it should.

The closest I've got is recoil-induced automatic. Not true full-auto, but try telling that to the guy in the next lane. And the Saiga without a brake did jerk right a little. It still does in slow fire, and I'm betting from 'rolling' against my shoulder.

It's a matter of mass times velocity and reaction. 125gr bullet at 2400fps--reaction. A full pound of bolt assembly--reaction. 100 grains of brass or steel at 100fps, not so much.

Bear 45/70
March 27, 2010, 04:52 AM
How is there no recoil in my theory? The bullet has powder propelling it and putting force back--as previously mentioned--and flinging the bolt and carrier back. The brass does not. It's just getting tossed out the side, and would hardly impart much in the way of reaction against an eight-pound rifle. Any reaction would be from the casing not ejecting how it should.

The closest I've got is recoil-induced automatic. Not true full-auto, but try telling that to the guy in the next lane. And the Saiga without a brake did jerk right a little. It still does in slow fire, and I'm betting from 'rolling' against my shoulder.

It's a matter of mass times velocity and reaction. 125gr bullet at 2400fps--reaction. A full pound of bolt assembly--reaction. 100 grains of brass or steel at 100fps, not so much.
you admit there has to be a reaction to the brass being ejected, yet you try to claim there will bw no reaction. If there is forced used and it doesn't matter how much, there are still forces involved and on full auto, let me assure you, the gun will move to the left using full auto, especially with a high cap drum. Yet you still claim there is no force to move the gun left. Your theory is as good as mine is that there is no recoil from a fired cartridge. If you weapon is moving right when fired, maybe you better get some instruction in how to hold your weapon, cause you ain't doin' somethin' right. http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/Bear-45-70/Emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Deus Machina
March 27, 2010, 05:30 AM
Once again, I did not claim there's no reaction, I claim there's negligible reaction. There's just no (fine, you'll take that literally--'minimal') force to chucking the brass out the side. Do your AR, Mini-14, 10/22 or whatever else jerk left?

Try pinging one of the casings off a buddy sometime, just for kicks. If there was enough energy in that to move the much heavier gun to the side, you would be drawing blood.

My suggestion is that you're either overcompensating for the pull, or that you're holding more steady than I am able (my Nagant and shotgun don't move harshly on me, so it's a matter of the leverage it gains from rapid fire--and I weigh 135) and the muzzle brake is serving its function and pushing to the left. Which, if you hold steady enough to negate the jerk to the right, would serve to move the rifle.

anewconvert
March 27, 2010, 05:54 AM
The brass has little mass to impart an opposite force. However the bullet has significant mass and the energy imparted to it have an equal and opposite reaction to the travel of the bullet.

Because you are canted to the right while shooting right handed the left side of the buttstock encounters resistance to the movement of the rifle first. This slows down the left side of the rifle faster than the right, causing it to shift to the right.

If you switch hands the opposite is true and it will move left while shooting. Next time you shoot switch hands and the gun will shift left.

Your theory is flawed in that you think the minimal mass of the casing is imparting enough energy to move the rifle. It isn't. The casings initial momentum is directly backwards until it is redirected to the right. There is insufficient mass and energy to impart noticeable movement.

BC

DMK
March 27, 2010, 10:40 AM
As to the 1:00 orientation of the break.
true if you're right handed, 11:00 if you're a lefty
It's adjustable........ In Soviet Russia, everyone shoot righty.

It's not adjustable. One locking slot for the pin. One orientation of the brake.

You may have an aftermarket copy with an extra locking slot or something.

DMK
March 27, 2010, 10:44 AM
Is there a consensus on which of the devices using that attachment method is the most effective at flash suppression and recoil reduction?

YHM Phantom or the more expensive Smith Vortex are the best flash hiders. The Phantom is a decent comp (works like the M16A2 FS with a slot on top, none on the bottom). They make both for the 14x1 left hand threading of the AKM.

BTW, there are two thread patterns for AKs:

AK 74s and the like use a bigger 24x1.5 right hand threading and the threads are on the sleeve of the front sight block that fits over the barrel.

AKMs have the barrel itself threaded with the 14x1 left hand threads. There are a lot more devices available in this threading.

DMK
March 27, 2010, 10:51 AM
Why would there ever be a tendency to move to the right?Could rifling twist have anything to do with it?

RyanM
March 27, 2010, 11:39 AM
It's because you hold the gun on your right shoulder. If you brace the gun against your sternum, recoil pushes you straight back. If you brace the gun against the right side of your body, recoil attempts to twist you to the right, which must be counteracted via muscle power. Or a slant brake.

Most marksmanship and gun handling problems have a lot to do with what's behind the gun, rather than what's in it.

DMK
March 27, 2010, 01:18 PM
It's because you hold the gun on your right shoulder. If you brace the gun against your sternum, recoil pushes you straight back. If you brace the gun against the right side of your body, recoil attempts to twist you to the right, which must be counteracted via muscle power. Or a slant brake.So just to clarify, you're saying that the slant comp is designed to compensate for the body rotating, not the rifle torquing towards one side?

Coronach
March 27, 2010, 01:37 PM
YHM Phoenix or the more expensive Smith Vortex are the best flash hiders. The Phoenix is a decent comp (works like the M16A2 FS with a slot on top, none on the bottom). They make both for the 14x1 left hand threading of the AKM.Phoenix? Or Phantom?

Mine is an AKM/7.62x39 build, so I'm pretty sure it is the 14x1 LH threading.

Mike

frankge
March 27, 2010, 01:39 PM
I like th AK-74 type break on mine. Made a big difference and louder too!

DMK
March 27, 2010, 01:41 PM
Phoenix? Or Phantom? Phantom. Sorry.

http://www.yhm.net/store/muzzle.html

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=48930/sku/AK_47_Vortex_Flash_Hider

Mine is an AKM/7.62x39 build, so I'm pretty sure it is the 14x1 LH threading. Yep. Unless someone did something weird. Garage gunsmithing not withstanding, if the barrel itself is threaded, it should be 14x1 LH.

ijosef
March 28, 2010, 01:28 AM
Has anyone ever tried the J-Tac compensator on an AK?
http://www.parts4ak47.com/ak-47_accessories/product/AK-47_J-Tac_Recoil_Compensator.html

If you enjoyed reading about "why is an AK's muzzle slanted?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!