pump action paradox


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oldfool
March 26, 2010, 11:45 AM
unrequited love...
always had a yen for a pump action carbine ("modern" styling but not "tacticool" styling) in 357 mag caliber

There was the Colt Lightning. There are some very pricey replicas targeting the nostalgia and/or CAS/SASS folks, like the Beretta Gold Rush. There was the short lived IMI Timberwolf (still can be had on auction sites, if bold enough to pay the price and worry about reliabilty and parts availability after). The was the pert-near-non-event Taurus Thunderbolt (especially non-event in 357 carbine length). Some folks do own and love any of the above, but the apparent majority consensus is that none of the above are/were remarkably reliable. Other than the niche replica market, seems like none of the manufacturers can make a modern day version that can hold it's own in the marketplace.

Some say the above mentioned models not built stout enough, actions being too "delicate" or "complex" ,,... which makes no sense to me... might be true of above examples, but would seem like not all that hard to to do new and improved, highly reliable

Remington makes an entire line of fairly popular "7600" pumpers, and they make 'em in carbine lengths, calibers in 30-06 and 308 (hardly what anyone could call wussie calibers), some made in pretty conventional style models, mag loading, but stocked like a sporter, tactical not required

shucks, I could even live with black, if need be

so... why no love for us pistol carbine guys who would love a pumper to go along with our 357 lever actions ?


if they can do a "police" carbine in 308, why won't they do a 357 for me ?
:(

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Jason_W
March 26, 2010, 12:06 PM
There has been little love for pump action rifles in general. You see them more often here in northern NE than other parts of the country.

I'm with you though, I've always thought a pump action carbine in .357 or .44 mag would be pretty cool.

ArmedBear
March 26, 2010, 12:15 PM
There has been little love for pump action rifles in general.

Lever guns have solid foreends. CAS could be shot with a shotgun: speed, not high accuracy, is the key, so pump rifles are functional.

KingTiger
March 26, 2010, 01:32 PM
Here's my IMI Timber Wolf in .357 Mag, they also were made in .44 Mag. They are no longer being imported. It's a nice, light weight pump action carbine that holds 10 rounds. The stock is adjustable in case you're using an optic. I plan on getting it threaded for a suppressor. It should be pretty quiet using .38 Spl ammo, which is subsonic.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x119/KingTiger_photo/TimberWolf011.jpg

oldfool
March 26, 2010, 02:10 PM
yup, that IMI is the one 1st put me thinking on it way back when
but waited too long, out thunk myself
nice

don't believe in magic bullets that do "everything", but a 38/357 is tough to beat for versatility, especially a revolver plus carbine

JT'sDad
March 27, 2010, 11:49 AM
I am a big fan of pumps, Taurus M72C 22mag, Rem 870, and my IMI Timberwolf in .357.
I have owned a Ruger 96/22M and a Marlin 1894CS, being a lefty I never liked the lever action, just my personal preference for pump action.

sandkicker
March 27, 2010, 12:29 PM
I believe that the Timberwolf was briefly available with a metal "skeleton" stock... I seem to remember seeing one in a catalog once. At one time a company in South Africa was developing a pump 12 ga shotgun that was detachable magazine fed and had the general form factor of an UZI with a folding stock.

Jim Watson
March 27, 2010, 01:51 PM
You could haunt the gun shows and look for a Remington Model 14 1/2 in .44-40.
True, you couldn't buy WWB at cheapmart, but it is a good sound gun designed by John Pedersen, the man John Browning called the best in the business.

RyanM
March 27, 2010, 02:07 PM
What I don't like about the pump rifles is they're always the old style where the bolt pops out of the end of the receiver. "Shuck-smash-pinch OOWWWW MY THUMB!"

MetalHead
March 27, 2010, 02:45 PM
"OOWWWW MY THUMB!"

Had not thought of that as the only pumps I have used are my 870s and a Model 12 Remington 22. Was thinking a 357 in a Marlin style receiver but a pump would be uber-cool but pinning my hand to the stock trying to get a follow up shot makes my stomach churn.

Jason_W
March 27, 2010, 04:42 PM
Would it be possible to base a pistol cal carbine on a 760 or 7600 action? I'm sure it would be pricey to have that kind of a custom job done, but I think it's an interesting concept.

Abel
March 27, 2010, 04:51 PM
I'd want a 760 or 7600 in 35 Remington.

rcmodel
March 27, 2010, 05:04 PM
"OOWWWW MY THUMB!"
You must be joking. Right?

I have shot Winchester .22 pumps my whole life.
I currently own five of them.
Also Winchester 97 pump shotguns with hammers.

I have never in my life had the bolt smash my thumb, or even touch it.
If you smash your thumb with one, you would have to really work at improperly placing it under the hammer spur after you fired it, but before you pumped it.

You can get Colt lightening pump repro's in .38/.357 Mag, 44-40, and .45 Colt here.
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/RepeatingRifles/LightningRifle.htm#

rc

MetalHead
March 27, 2010, 05:44 PM
Am I joking? Don't think so, just concerned.

RyanM
March 27, 2010, 05:46 PM
I have shot Winchester .22 pumps my whole life.

That would be why you don't have a problem, probably.

It was the first shot of the day and my first time using that rifle (it was someone else's), and I had no warning that the bolt comes out the back. I figured it was like a Spencer sort of, that you pump, then cock the hammer by thumb. Not my finest moment, maybe, but it left an "impression" on me, in more ways than one.

rcmodel
March 27, 2010, 05:46 PM
Am I joking? Don't think so, just concerned.
Have you ever actually shot, or even worked the action on a hammer pump gun?

I honestly don't understand how anyone could get their thumb in a pumps bolt or hammer if they had their hand on the stock holding it normally to shoot it.

rc

JT'sDad
March 27, 2010, 07:19 PM
In firing serveral hundred rounds I have never hurt myself firing a pump action of any sort.

Bear 45/70
March 27, 2010, 08:27 PM
Have you ever actually shot, or even worked the action on a hammer pump gun?

I honestly don't understand how anyone could get their thumb in a pumps bolt or hammer if they had their hand on the stock holding it normally to shoot it.

rc

I have 3 pump hammer guns. You have been lucky, are the extremely over cautious type or have little hands.

oldfool
March 27, 2010, 10:36 PM
now that's a little weird... the bolt vs. your hand thing
because I have done that sort of thing w/ a lever action, and so has a friend
(the bolt on a Marlin has real sharp points, by the way)
that much I do remember, even though it wasn't a biggie, just gets your attention real quick
the weirdness is, don't remember exactly how I did it (but never have done it again)
must have been at the bench (?) and working the lever to eject, off hand on grip
maybe rolling the rifle to eject shell (if do that just right, the empty will fly out, hit screen, drop right into the coffee can) because it isn't something that just naturally happens all that easy

must be a little bit like learning stove = "HOT", when you are a kid... ???
(you don't need to keep your hand in the same place for long to learn that one either)
at any rate it's one of the things you tend not to repeat, and I do shoot lever actions a lot

MatthewVanitas
April 6, 2010, 04:42 AM
Does anyone know quite why they stopped bringing the IMI Timberwolf to the US?

Did the tooling wear out, sales too poor, importer switched suppliers? Is some factory in the world still making them but just not sending them to the U.S.?

Not sure how much of a market there would be for them these days, since they aren't historical enough for CAS and the market seems pretty heavily geared towards semi-auto carbines these days. They do seem pretty slick little rifles though.

Kernel
April 6, 2010, 05:50 AM
“Hammer Bite” is a well know phenomena that effects many firearm designs. Most famously, perhaps, the ever popular 1911, and, from what I can see, it hasn’t hurt’s it’s marketability one bit.

Would love to see them bring the Timber Wolf back. Love my pumps and levers.

Dr.Rob
April 6, 2010, 01:28 PM
If Taurus ever makes that rifle in 44 magnum I'm buying one.

wankerjake
June 23, 2010, 03:47 PM
My brother has a pump .22lr made by Rossi. I don't think anyone in the family has had any problems with their thumbs getting caught. I know I haven't.

JFrame
June 23, 2010, 04:14 PM
I have a Winny Trapper in .357, which I love.

A complementary pump-gun in .357 would be the cat's meow! :)

.

easy
June 25, 2010, 09:11 PM
Does anyone know quite why they stopped bringing the IMI Timberwolf to the US?

The Timber Wolf was designed as a 'Patrol Rifle'. The thought being that a patrol cop would have a carbine and revolver in the same caliber, making the ammo situation a no-brainer.

The problem was that it was introduced just as the 'wonder nine' era started, and many departments were abandoning wheel guns in favor of the 'new' semi-auto 9MM.

The bottom fell out of the market. Hard. The were about 10,000 built in .357Mag and some where near 1000 in .44Mag. They can be found for any where from as low as $500.00 all the way up to $1,700.00 and higher.

NWCP
June 25, 2010, 09:24 PM
Pump rifles are a pleasure to shoot. They especially lend themselves well to the rimfire cartridges. I've not had the opportunity to use a centerfire pump, but would imagine they are equally as entertaining.

winchester '97
June 26, 2010, 12:14 AM
The lightning repro's seem like your best bet, and rcmodel is right, if you bust your thumb your holding it wrong. Especially on the 1897.

Col. Plink
June 26, 2010, 04:32 PM
Hey-sus Marimba, the decline of pump rifles aided by the scourge of the 9mm? Sheer blasphemy!

I love my Remi760's, and they have no offending hammer. I also am a big detractor of the dearth of pistol-caliber carbines that are NOT levers. I wish the old Ruger p-series mag carbines were still in vougue. All becuae law enforcement went withthe 9?? BLEH!!

dougw47
June 26, 2010, 05:14 PM
Around my neck of the woods (East Texas) you can find a Lever-Action 357 or 44mag once in a blue moon...I have not seen on in two years.

I just thought if they can't make enough Lever-actions, why bring out a pump?

Supply and demand, I guess.

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