Taurus PT709 Slim Vs. Walther pk380


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touro1979
March 26, 2010, 04:21 PM
I am looking to get a handgun for CC and self defense but I dont want one so small that I will hate shooting it (think Ruger lcp). I went to gun store was looking at the PT109 and the PK380. I was also looking at the PPK but it seemed to a little high priced to me but I like that is all metal.

Which should I get or is there something else in that price range I should look at. I already have a Springfield XD service model with 4 inch barrel in 9 mm but I need something easier to conceal. I kind like the Ruger SP101 but I think that would be as difficult to conceal as my XD so I think I will have to go with auto becasue all the real small revolvers would not be fun to shoot.

Whats everyone think of these two choices, pros and cons and what would you all get.

Thanks for the opinions.

Steve

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touro1979
March 26, 2010, 07:53 PM
No one has an opinion?

ATBackPackin
March 26, 2010, 08:18 PM
I have not fired either of those, but the Taurus 709 is one of the pistols I looked at when I was searching for my carry gun. I liked the way the Taurus fit it my hand, but I was leery because I have heard a lot of mixed reviews. I had narrowed my search down to the Walther PPS and the Kahr CW9. I had fired the Walther PPS and really liked it but the gun shop was asking $640 for it. I decided on the Kahr CW9 which I got for $420 and I could not be happier. They can be found a little cheaper but I decided to buy local.

Here is a link to my report on it.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506352&highlight=cw

Best of luck.

Shawn

bigfatdave
March 26, 2010, 08:26 PM
Of those two ...
Unless the Walther is an incredible ergonomic fit, go with the Taurus 9mm.
You get cheaper ammo, more effective ammo, findable ammo ... you get the idea.
If you're already stocking 9mm, all you'll have to do is some reliability testing on carry loads and you're good to go.

There isn't anything .380 does that 9mm won't, except fit into LCP/p3at sized mouseguns. If you aren't looking for a teeny-tiny mousegun, go 9x19 and take the money you save on ammo and put it into a good carry rig.

In that pricerange and sizerange, there is the Kel-Tec P9 and/or P11, or a used Kahr subcompact or a used Walther PPS.
I pack a PPS as my everyday gun, in a CrossBreed holster with a BeltMan belt.
That carry rig would easily conceal an XD subcompact, but the PPS fits my hand as if it were designed for it.

c919
March 27, 2010, 12:21 AM
Go SP101 or PPS (as bigfatdave suggested). Those are my two EDC's and I figure if my skinny @$$ can conceal it, anybody can. Both are dead nuts reliable and easy to shoot proficiently.

I don't want to crap on the options above as I have not owned either, but I will tell you I would spring for something you are sure you can trust. Personally, I avoid Taurus autos, with the exception of the PT1911 and PT92 (both of these seem like pretty decent guns IME). After playing around with the PK380 recently, I couldn't see myself ever owning one (and I'm a major Walther fan). They just feel like a cheap Chinese toy.

You mentioned the SP101, go with that instinct. You can easily find one in the price range you are shooting for. It will never fail, it will conceal easily and you can practice with some pretty stout loads without receiving too much of a hand beating.

Also as suggested above, save yourself the time and money and order a Crossbreed Supertuck from the beginning no matter what gun you get. You won't be disappointed.

(I like your style bigfatdave, nothing like a PPS in a Crossbreed)

sprocket rocket
March 27, 2010, 01:48 AM
Kahr CW-9 can be had under $400. If that is still too high, I'd suggest the Keltec PF-9. Taurus has a pretty bad rep, and the .380 round is expensive and hard to find

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/1d/KahrCW9.jpg/300px-KahrCW9.jpg

WIGunCollector
March 27, 2010, 04:17 PM
I have the Taurus PT709 in SS and would definately not give it a bad rep. 300 rounds through. The only brand it is finicky with is WWB and so are other higher end handguns. Only 4 FTE with WWB and none with Hornady, Remington UMC, Speer, Federal.

IdahoSkies
March 27, 2010, 06:25 PM
Well they are really very different pistols.

PPK is a DA/SA .380 from the mid 1900s. The 709 is a SA 9mm with modern technology. I like the PPK, but prefer mine in .32, but for a carry piece the 709 really is far superior. You get a 9mm in a lighter package. The only real advantage the PPK has over the 709 is that it is a DA, so if you are squimish in carrying a SA that would be the only reason I would consider carrying a PPK (If it was just between the two).

But that being said, try shooting both if you can, and which ever fits your hand like a glove and puts the lead where you instictivly point it is the one you want. Based on any other factor I would get the 709.

swmp9jrm
March 28, 2010, 01:27 PM
I've got a PT-709 as my daily carry. Well over 1000 rounds through it with minimal issues. I have no concern about counting on it in a bad situation. I've had more than a dozen types of FMJ and JHP ammo through it, including WWB, with no extraction issues what-so-ever. It does need to be kept squeaky clean and judiciously lubed. It's pocketable in loose fitting jeans, but I carry mine in a SmartCarry rig. No hesitation from me about recommending the 'Slim'.

http://i26.tinypic.com/vws8w7.jpg

huduguru
April 12, 2010, 12:47 PM
sprocket, Taurus has a bad rep but Keltec doesn't?

Triggernosis
April 12, 2010, 01:06 PM
Taurus only has a bad rap to those who paid more for a similar pistol and want to feel good about it.

To the OP - I handled a PT709 Slim this past weekend and it felt good. If it had an exposed hammer, I would get one. The PK-380 feels great ergo-wise, but it's .380 vs. 9mm.

IdahoSkies
April 12, 2010, 01:23 PM
Really, you have old technology with a lower powered round verses modern technology, safety features, ability to handle modern ammo, in a larger round. Get the 709. Both of them were on my list as well but neither quite fit what I was looking for, but the 709 would have been my choice.

Q!!
April 12, 2010, 01:25 PM
I have a PK380 and it is a great gun. Shoots great, has been 100% reliable and is accurate. Fits me like a glove also.

GForceLizard
April 12, 2010, 03:38 PM
I like my Taurus 709 slim. It's 100% during test firing. I've had a double feed while shooting a timed course but I don't know if it was me or the gun. I immediately walked it to another range, fired the same ammo with no problems. I think it was me using a bad grip that interfered with the slide.

The Kahr CW9 looks good too but I've not tried one.

trimore
April 13, 2010, 09:38 AM
What would I get. A Kahr PM9. They are a little pricery but I found mine used and it was not too bad.

I looked at the Taurus 709 but I just liked the Kahr better and how it felt in the my hand and so did my wife so that settled it.

The Taurus was also brand new at the time and that caused me to hesitate a bit.

m2steven
April 13, 2010, 04:48 PM
I have had an expensive love affair with 380's since I got my first Bersa 380 about 4 years ago or so. I can tell you about most of them. The Walther is a lovely pistol but is almost too big to not get a 9mm of some kind. My 709 has been perfect after coming back from the factory. In fact, I've shot about 400 rounds of Fiocchi +p thru it and it's still in one piece with no failures.

I like the Kahr. It's about the only 380 I don't own but I've shot it. It's a very good pistol at a pretty good price. It's something you'd be very likely to carry. The 709 is also something which is easy to carry. But not like the Kahr 380 or the SIG238 or Taurus TCP.

If you are worried about 'stopping' power, just purchase some Buffalo Bore 380 for your defensive load. Approx 300 ft pounds of energy out of a 4 inch barrel, and nearly that out of a 3 inch barrel.

But between the two you mention, I'd go with the 709 even knowing you might have to have it serviced.

Triggernosis
April 13, 2010, 05:10 PM
steven, how's the DA trigger pull on the PT 709?

searcher451
April 13, 2010, 05:31 PM
The reviews to date on the PK380 have been interesting and cover the gamut from -- well, from A to B, I guess. Most of the folks who have bought one have reported enjoying it greatly and have found it to be easy to use and operate and also have found it to be readily reliable, at least in the early going. Many of those same folks also have reported the appearance of barrel scratches/disfiguration from normal operating wear. That's not a good sign when you have fewer than a hundred rounds through the firearm, IMO. (You can log on to the Walther Forums to get a better idea of this phenomonon, if you are interested.)

The bottom lin on the PK380 seems to be that if you like the P22, you'll love the PK380.

m2steven
April 13, 2010, 06:23 PM
The double action trigger pull of the 709 is actually very pleasant. I'd describe it as good, on par with the trigger of the Bersa Thunder 380 (different of course, but similar). It is certainly a better trigger than one might expect from an inexpensive pistol

NinjaFeint
April 27, 2010, 04:45 PM
What would I get. A Kahr PM9. They are a little pricery but I found mine used and it was not too bad.

I looked at the Taurus 709 but I just liked the Kahr better and how it felt in the my hand and so did my wife so that settled it.

The Taurus was also brand new at the time and that caused me to hesitate a bit.
PM9's can be found for 500ish with Night Sights/Black slide and around 450ish standard sights/stainless slide in my area. They are mostly lightly used since it is not a range gun. This would be my suggestion.

EdLaver
April 27, 2010, 06:22 PM
I like my Slim. The Walther doesn't have a slide release, comes with one mag, and it doesn't have a key to adjust the "adjustable" rear sights. The manual states to "firmly push the rear sight left or right to achieve desired position." LOL, thats crap to me. The only thing positive the Walther has in my book is a good ergonomic grip, thats about it. The Slim beats it in every other category. Second strike capability, numerous safeties, compact, bigger caliber, adjustable rear sight WITH A KEY, and TWO magazines.

Here's mine...

MrPlinkerton
April 27, 2010, 10:07 PM
I have both and find they're both very accurate and each having their own unique pros and cons. The pk 380 is very easy to shoot, likes every thing but some cheap Monarch ammo I found. I picked this pistol because it has the features I like, such as a hammer, safety, DA/SA, very slim and it was comfortable for me and my wife. I don't particularly like having a key to do the take down, but it seems to work fine after you get the hang of it. The recoil spring takes a little effort to replace, but that too is fine once you know the trick. The pt709 was the runner up when I purchased the Walther and couldn't get past the urge to have a 9mm in an almost identical sized package. I have to admit I had a little buyer's remorse with the taurus. It's very accurate, liked every brand of ammo I put through it, but I had to take it back to the dealer to take it down to give it the initial cleaning. The salesman and gunsmith even had trouble with it. Then at the range I found it very the trigger pull to be very difficult. In the SA mode, the take up is very long and is nearly to the frame by the time it breaks. At that point it feels very heavy and I found myself trying various positions to some how make the pull easier. It seems like the meaty part of my finger is bottoming out against the frame and my finger was sore after just a couple of magazines. My wife had an even tougher time with the trigger and we found ourselves taking little breaks from it and switching to other guns. The double action mode (second strike) is much different, the pull is not so long or heavy. The gunsmith at my local shop said that it was pretty normal, but I won't be satisfied with that answer until I've talked to someone at taurus. I will be very pleased if I can get the trigger issue solved.

Ben86
May 1, 2010, 12:07 PM
I have a T709 and I like it a lot. It has been 100% reliable with a variety of ammo and is very accurate and easy to shoot. For the price I wish I would have got the Kahr cw9 though, just for the full grip mainly. It is about the same size and close in price to the 709.

I wouldn't bother with the walther p380. It is the size of a 9mm in .380. .380 is over priced, hard to find and underpowered.

snooperman
May 1, 2010, 05:29 PM
than a 380 for CCW. The Taurus 709 has had good reviews from people who own them. I have a KelTec P11 that I bought about 10 years ago and have had no issues with it either. If you are set on a 380, you might look at the new Taurus TCP. A friend has one and it is light and shoots fine. How you plan to carry it, IWB, or pocket carry will influence your choice as well. The 9mm has much more energy and stopping power than the 380. There are so many choices for concealed carry today than 10 years ago and that is a good thing but it can be difficult for someone new to decide . I hope this helps in some way.

bigfatdave
May 1, 2010, 07:53 PM
touro1979 appears to be long gone.
He/she must have made a choice by now, I doubt further pointing out of the cartridge each firearm takes will make a difference.

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