8 shot snubnoses


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uspJ
March 27, 2010, 10:49 AM
i was going through a few old gun rags the other day and saw a guy mention that his edc was an 8 shot snub, he said that he kept it in a pocket holster.

i've only seen full size larger framed 8 shot revolvers before and was wondering who makes the smaller framed models that would be suitable for pocket carry?

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RyanM
March 27, 2010, 11:41 AM
It was probably a .22 magnum.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=367&category=Revolver&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

GEM
March 27, 2010, 11:42 AM
There are 7 and 8 shot snubbies in the 22 LR and 22 Mag - if that's what he is talking about. There are 6 shot 32 in the J size and a little larger 38s. There are giant snubbies in 357 with 7 or 8 and 45 ACP - but six shots - just a big gun with a short barrel. Check out the SW line.

Starter52
March 27, 2010, 08:24 PM
Iver Johnson made a bunch of 8 shot rimfire revolvers back in 1960's.

thesecond
March 27, 2010, 08:41 PM
from memory, I think ....

smith 317 .22 lr - 8 round cylinder

smith 351 .22 mag - 7 round cylinder

smith 242 .38 +P - 7 round cylinder

smith 327 .357/.38 - 8 round cylinder

smith 386 .357/.38 - 7 round cylinder

jdh
March 27, 2010, 10:17 PM
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14810&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15714&isFirearm=Y


That one?

fflgundealers.net
March 28, 2010, 10:45 AM
I never understood the Smith Model 327. There are three reasons that a J-Frame are good for concealment:

1) slimmer cylinder (only 5 shot)
2) smaller grip (ever try holding one?)
3) shorter barrel (SNUBNOSE:))

...so why would you want to make a revolver that has only one of the three?

The S&W 327 makes as much sense to me as:

-an N-Frame with a bobbed grip.

-a 5-shot J-Frame with an extended barrel

FFL Gun Dealer Locator (http://fflgundealers.net)

JimGnitecki
March 29, 2010, 08:32 AM
FFLgundealers.net: you said:

I never understood the Smith Model 327. There are three reasons that a J-Frame are good for concealment:
1) slimmer cylinder (only 5 shot)
2) smaller grip (ever try holding one?)
3) shorter barrel (SNUBNOSE)
...so why would you want to make a revolver that has only one of the three?
The S&W 327 makes as much sense to me as:
-an N-Frame with a bobbed grip.
-a 5-shot J-Frame with an extended barrel

Just goes to show you how two different people with different perspectives can see the same two firearms very differently!

I own both a J-frame (Model 60 LS) and a 327 Performance Center N-frame, so let me TRY to explain why at least I can rationalize BOTH as carry guns. And, in fact, I already carry the 60 LS but also intend to carry the 327.

I tried to post a neat set of 3 photos that show the two revolvers side by side from 3 different views, but I could not get the "manage attachments" to work for me. So, we'll need to do it without visuals! :)

The 60 LS is, according to S&W, 6 5/8 inches in overall length. The 327 is 7 inches in length. I see that as close to identical in length.

The 327 is “larger” than the 60 LS, but not as MUCH larger as to be “too large”, except for potentially the thickness of the cylinder. The 60 LS is about 1 ¼ inches thick, while the 327 is almost 1 ¾ inches thick. That difference is huge from a percentage point of view (40%) but actually not large in terms of actual added inches (only ½ inch). Is ½ inch enough to disqualify a firearm for concealed carry? That depends on how you intend to carry it I guess. Pocket carry is unlikely to be successfully hidden, but either a HIGH RIDE slide holster or IWB holster might work, if the cover garment is one that is either a loose fit or blouses over the firearm. Certainly a shoulder holster would work.

Let’s look at caliber. Both firearms are 357 Magnum, and both can shoot 38 Special as well. So, if the 60 LS is good, so must the 317 be.

Let’s look at unloaded weight. The all steel 60 LS weighs 21.7 ounces unloaded. The scandium/titanium/steel/aluminum 327 weighs 21.1 ounces – just slightly less. If the 60 LS is judged to be an acceptable weight from both carrying (less is better) and recoil perspectives (more is better), than the 327 must surely be judged the same, as its weight is basically identical.

Let’s look at LOADED weight. The 60 LS with only FIVE rounds aboard weighs 24.3 ounces. The 327 with EIGHT rounds aboard weighs 25.4 ounces – only 1 ounce more!! A penalty of only ONE ounce to carry THREE MORE rounds? That’s a DEAL from my perspective!

Now, let’s look at speed of reloading. The 60 LS requires using a speedloader. The 327 uses moon cips, which are FAR faster.

Finally, famed police officer / firearms expert / writer Massad Ayoob has actually carried a 327 for multiple days as a test, and reported in one of his books that the 327 really surprised him. He THOUGHT it might be too big and too light, but it proved to perform really well. Carried well and shot with manageable recoil.

Grip length on the 327? Believe it or not, I intend to remove the stock grips and replace them with the shorter “Secret Service” type grip from Eagle or other supplier, as the stock grips are longer than I require, and the shorter ones would enhance concealability even more.

You also said you don’t see the point in a J-frame with a long barrel. Have you ever looked at a Model 60-18? That gun is a J-frame with a 5 inch barrel. Advantages? The sighting radius is THREE inches longer! And, the 5 inch barrel generates higher bullet velocity than the 2 inch barrel. Disadvantage? Theoretically, a slightly slower draw. Concealability? No real disadvantage in belt or IWB carry, as the hardest part of the firearm to conceal is the GRIP, not the relatively thin barrel. Admittedly, the pocket carry option is gone.

That’s the way I see it . . . :)

Jim G

JimGnitecki
March 30, 2010, 05:41 PM
I found a way to get the photos on. See attached.

Jim G

fflgundealers.net
March 30, 2010, 08:16 PM
Hi JimGnitecki, Welcome to The High Road!

Thanks for disagreeing without flaming :) The comparison pics look great! I wish that S&W's website had a nice overlay like that.

You do discuss many valid points. It looks like the S&W 327 is going to work for you. My guess is that S&W makes so many different models because the slightest difference (weight, length, width, and height) could be a deal breaker for some. I do appreciate the fact that S&W makes many barrel lengths and capacities for their different frame sizes. Choices are good :)

I have a little friendly challenge for you: Once you get your holster situation figured out for the 327, pledge to carry it for one week straight. You will now officially have bragging rights, and I invite you to post pics of the 327 and holster combo here (you will probably make the rest of us jealous!).

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=513428

Cheers!
FFL Gun Dealers Locator (http://fflgundealers.net)

JimGnitecki
March 30, 2010, 08:58 PM
FFLgundealers.net: I will take that invitation and run with it! It might be a few weeks to get "full fruition", as the holster that I carefully picked for the 327 (to work with MY specific decrepit body :) ) won't arrive for 8 weeks or so.

But, in the meantime, I have new special grips from a very special supplier whose name you will recognize, coming within a week or two.

Once I get the grips, I'll install them and do a "gun porn centerfold" that I'll post so that admirers of really tough looking (as opposed to beautiful) guns can voice their opinions. By the way, the grip maker, while discussing the slightly customized grips, without any hesitation said something like "Boy that gun is ugly. Looks like a bulldog." :)

If I ever need to use it in a defensive manner, I hope the perp sees it exactly the same way. :)

By way of teaser, the "as delivered" gap between cylinder and barrel is somewhere between .004" and .005". The receiving FFL, a gunsmith, found that a .004" feeler gauge would go but a .005" feeler gauge would not go.

Jim G

JimGnitecki
April 1, 2010, 06:54 PM
I just found, while cruising The Web for something else, a magazine article written by Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch fame for "Guns" magazine in 2006, in which his theory was "why not get TWO guns that are suited for different roles, but which have the same feel and manual of arms. He got S&W to provide him with both a 327 8-shot snubbie AND what S&W sells as the 5 inch "Tactical".

He liked them both a lot, and here is how he summarized the 2" snubbie:

"Shooting full magnums in the 2" barrel wears on me pretty quick but, trust me brother, if the threat was in close they would get a gut full of fire and flaming projectiles double quick. So for its intent as a small, compact, powerful fight stopper this 327 hits a home run. It has "old guy with glasses" type large sights and a narrow, smooth trigger to make for a smooth double action application."

Coming from someone with what many would call "strong traditional beliefs" (he actually apologizes in the article for even LOOKING at a firearm with a bore under .45 !!), this is a glowing testimonial. :)

Jim G

Guillermo
April 1, 2010, 07:13 PM
Thanks guys,

Have enjoyed the discussion

Hardballing
April 1, 2010, 07:39 PM
Iver Johnson as noted made 7 and 8 shot snubs. But way before the 1960's as well. Going all the way back to the early 1900's IIRC. Have seen true "pocket" sized revolvers, with folding hammers, from them going back earlier than that. Was a picture in the old RL Wilson book, Guns and Gunleather of the Old West with just such a revolver carried by Pat Garrett in his latter years. That one was a 7 shooter.

And the term "pocket holster" has a different meaning if you look at it historically rather than in the modern sense. Was very common in early 20th century for the average Joe to carry a gun in coat, or overcoat pocket and I personally have examined examples of these type holsters from this era. If you look at almost any photo from this time period, you will see that males wore coats, ties and overcoats for every day wear. Easy to note these holster types if you see one at a show or flea market, they have ususally perfectly smooth backs with no provision for attachment to a belt. And some of those examples are quite large and capable of holding SAA sized weapons.

Just a little historical note from the peanut gallery...

JimGnitecki
April 4, 2010, 05:16 PM
FFLgundealers.net: Ok, you aksed so here it is.

I've atatched 3 photos. They show

1. The 327 PC alloy snubbie itself, with its new grips from Jim Badger

2. The differences in shape and size between the stock Ahrens grips and Jim's grips, which he subtly modified further to my needs. He thinned out the LHS in order to enable the fastest possible reloads via moonclips. Note the obvious asymetry now evident in the "from the rear" prifle view

3. How much difference the COLOR of the grips makes to a revolver. The new ones from Jim Badger are a two tone black and gray that is a great match for the 2-tone black and gray of the revolver itself.

Jim's grips fit perfectly and easily.

He was also able to make these customized grips for me (a) quickly and (b) for no cost premium. I sent him an initial email asking a number of questions, and he invited me to call him and then he patiently handled my questions during the "persnalized" telephone conversation. I have no way of knowing if this is typical for him, but I surely appreciate what he did for me.

I am incredibly happy with the grips! :)

Jim G

JimGnitecki
April 4, 2010, 05:19 PM
The third photo:


Note: The stock grips have had their finish stripepd oof them, as my very gentle uncleaner nevertheless literally dissolved the Ahrens finish.

Jim G

rogertc1
April 4, 2010, 08:58 PM
mine:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/rogertc1/firearms/SW627Pref.jpg

fflgundealers.net
April 8, 2010, 10:07 AM
JimGnitecki:

Nice grips. A little thinner and seems to be more "shaped". I can't wait to see them the holster when you get it.

rogertc1:

What kind of holster is that? Does it help tame the large cylinder?

I have to admit...the 8 round cylinder approaches the capacity of the standard 10 round capacity of small/medium semi's... and is beginning to be more appealing to me. This high capacity revolver will never jam!

fflgundealers.net (http://fflgundealers.net)

Taurus 617 CCW
April 8, 2010, 10:18 AM
I would not recommend a 7 or 8 shot .38 caliber revolver for pocket carry. I started concealed carry with a Taurus 617 (7 shot .357 snubby). I figured that I would carry it inside the waistband and had to get a custom holster made for it. After carrying it for a week I decided that it was time for an OWB holster. The gun is just too wide to conceal in anything and be comfortable.

fflgundealers.net
April 8, 2010, 10:54 AM
Taurus 617 CCW:

Thanks for the honest advice. I suppose that the old adage applies, "The grass is always greener on the other side."

If you have a 5-shot, the higher capacity of a 7 or 8 shot is appealing. If you have a 7 or 8 shot, the comfort of the 5-shot is appealing. I'll try and be happy with what I have.

fflgundealers.net (http://fflgundealers.net)

Mp7
April 8, 2010, 11:09 AM
dunno wether its comfy ...
but it sure is one heck of a handcannon!

JimGnitecki
April 8, 2010, 11:23 AM
FFLgundealersnet: Once I get my holster, I'll let you know how it works out for me.

The holster I have on order for the 8-shot is an El Paso High Slide. This is a slide holster that carries the firearm very high in an FBI forward tilt. The photo shown below unfortunately shows an auto versus a revolver (this is the only ohoto on the El Pasow ebsite for this holster).

My thinking is that because the 8-shot with 2" barrel is very short, and this holster carries it so high, the barrel will not go below the belt line. So, I can wear a rather short cover garment. Plus the cylinder will, with this very high ride slide holster, be ABOVE the belt, easing the apparent thickness. This will put the firearm somewhat inward under my armpit in a rather "fleshy" area, behind and under the ribs, around 4pm, where the handgun can push inward without discomfort to enhance concealment, and where the natural drape of a short or jacket will cover it. The FBI forward tilt plus the more compact grips should hide it very effectively under a loose shirt worn over a T-shirt, and CERTAINLY under any short jacket. The light loaded weight of the firearm (23 ounces) will also help a lot, as it will minimize any force trying to pull the firearm outward and downward.

I know there is no way of being certain all this will work as planned, but I've tried to maximize the odds based on analyzing the available holsters out there as best I can.

We'll see if it works and how well it works.

I'm also going to TRY to see if a 627 V-Comp 5" withOUT the comp an somehow be carried. I'm thinking this same slide holster MIGHT work for it, as long as the shirt or jacket is 3" longer than with the 2" snubbie. But in the worst case, a vertical shoulder holster might be necessary, as I doubt that a horizontal model (like the highly regarded Alessi Bodyguard) could hide that 5" barrel.

Jim G

Stainz
April 8, 2010, 11:54 AM
My new 2 5/8" PC 627 - from a current run of the 1999 Ultimate Defense Revolver, which gained the title 'Blood Work revolver' after the Clint Eastwood movie 'Blood Work' in 2002, where he carried one of the limited production revolver. My new one arrived last Friday, differing only by the inclusion of the IL now:

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_4160.jpg

Same SKU - 170133 - as the original. Shot it at two ranges thus far - FUN!

Stainz

Spartacus451
April 8, 2010, 03:25 PM
I would not recommend a 7 or 8 shot .38 caliber revolver for pocket carry. I started concealed carry with a Taurus 617 (7 shot .357 snubby). I figured that I would carry it inside the waistband and had to get a custom holster made for it. After carrying it for a week I decided that it was time for an OWB holster. The gun is just too wide to conceal in anything and be comfortable.
The 7-shot smiths are the same width as the 6-shots. That said I don't recommend the L-frames even with 6. K-frame is significantly lighter, better balanced, and thinner.

JimGnitecki
April 9, 2010, 03:22 PM
Below is a photo of a Galco "high ride"holster offered by the S&Wb website for the 327 snubbie.

I like this photo because it shows clearly just how high this holster carries the cylinder of the revolver. Note that it is basically ABOVE the belt. This makes it far easier to snug the thick cylinder deep against the body, pulling in the grips at the same time.

Jim G

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