[grinch]

Greetings everyone , I'm in the market for a .22 cal. pocket pistol and I've narrowed it down to the bersa/firestorm and the berretta 21a . the gun is not for ccw or self defence but i would like to have a small .22 to stick in my tackle box for when i'm fishing on the riverbank . I would like to hear from from anyone who has had a chance to shoot either or both of these guns . my primary concerns would be reasonable acuracy and longterm durability , I don't want it wearing out after a few thousand rounds. all info and advice will be appreciated .

[aeroscout]

I have a 21A that I've had for 8 years. I've only fired about 200 rounds through it because I was living in NY State for part of that time and could not have it there (without much trouble). I just recently shot about 20 rounds of Winchester Xpert Hollow Point with much trouble ejecting but I posted this thread and after following the advise I've had better luck.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46653

However I'm still having at least one fail to feed on every other magazine near the end of the magazine. It seems to be very acurate and the flip up barrel is nice too. I'd probably keep it if I wasn't looking for something in a larger caliber like .32 or .380 for a pocket pistol.
HTH

[grinch]

Thanks aeroscout , I've done a search here and everyone says the beretta likes the high velocity ammo better . the little gun would mostly be used as a plinker but i'm curious as to what your opinion is of the overall fit , finish and overall quality of the 21a .

[sm]

grinch, Welcome to THR

No experience with Bersa.
Lots with Beretta ( 950 Jetfire, 21A Bobcat in both the 22lr and 25ACP loads)

21A is a very good gun. DA first shot SA rest of the mag.

Taurus makes one similar, but is DA only.

I use Win X22lr and Win Powerpoints .

[ not directed at anyone, but need to plant a seed:
One will buy a gun, then proceed to buy ammo based on cost alone/promo ammo and do the same with magazines ...then get upset if gun don't run]

[Karate]

21a is the way to go....I have never had a problem with mine.

[XavierBreath]

I have a Beretta 21A and it is a good little pistol. I have used it over the past ten years, probably around 5000-8000 rounds and still ticking. It will have an occasional FTE, maybe one in 500. One of the advantages of the flip up barrel is that you can easily swap in ratshot for a snake. Ratshot will usually have a FTE though, be aware of that.

My only concern is that it is a little to nice for a tackle box pistol. For that purpose, (keeping in the bottom of a tackle box) I'd recommend a HiPoint .380. Don't laugh, a lot of buddies carry just that in their tackle box or tool box. It's a reliable, cheap gun. Nobody will have a knee jerk reaction to that resting in the bottom of a tackle box among the rusty lures and pond slime. Other candidates would be a beat up Makarov, a CZ52 with a 9mm barrel, or a old revolver. I just flinch at the thought of tossing a like new Beretta in the bottom of my tackle box.

Another alternative, of course, is to carry it on your hip.

[SirVette]

Definitely the BERSA - excellent shooter, reliability, accuracy & trigger.
The reason for a 21a would be that it is smaller, not an issue in your case.
Also the small Berettas do not have an extractor.

[grinch]

Thanks to everyone for your replies . Just to clear things up a little , I probably would'nt really just throw it in the bottom of my tackle box :) I just said that meaning that it would mostly be used for when I was fishing : plinking when the fish won't bite , the occasional snake or what have you . altho the cz52 in the bottom of the box would'nt be a bad idea just in case something bigger than a bullfrog comes wandering down the river bank :what: btw how hard is it to find good spare mags for the beretta or bersa ?

[AZ Heat]

I have the Beretta and love it. You do have to find the right ammo because it is sensitive to some. I like to use the Stinger ammo. It seems to function flawlessly. It seems to be the best for the smaller guns. It is also suprisingly accurate for its size. I take mine on hikes with me all the time. Good Luck!

[AZ Heat]

Regarding the mags... you shouldn't have any problems finding them. For the factory mags, they run about $20 in my neck of the woods (AZ). You can find others for around $15 at the gun shows.

[otomik]

I have experience with the Bersa/Firestorm .22lr. at 6.6 inches in length i'd call it bigger than the pocket pistol category you're looking for.

the Beretta doesn't have an extractor so you're screwed if the ammo doesn't go boom. It's accurate like all berettas but you don't have much sight radius in a gun that small.

Consider a Taurus 94 9-shot revolver. if the ammo isn't 100% reliable (and generally rimfire isn't) then all you have to do is pull the trigger again. I think a revolver suits your idea of a tackle box gun better anyway since you don't have to fiddle with magazines and cleaning is easier (though Bersa/Firestorm maintence is as easy as autoloader maintenence gets).

incidentally both the Bersa and the Beretta are picky in that they only cycle the hotter ammo, so it's not like you can use just any type of rimfire you have lying around. here's my findings with the Firestorm http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49795&highlight=firestorm

[grinch]

otomik, i read your excellent post on the firestorm about a week ago and it made me wonder how the bersa would compare side by side with the beretta . i was hoping someone here might own or have owed both and could say if either had any significant advantage over the other . my post was not in vain because i still learned something about both guns . i had previously cosidered the taurus 94 but i really prefer autoloaders its just me .

[albanian]

I own both (sort of). I own two Beretta 21As, and a Bersa 23 which is the all steel version of the Firestorm.

They are very different guns with different good points and bad points. The Bersa is far more accrate and easy to shoot because of the better sight and longer bbl and grip. The Beretta is great if you really need a small gun, it sounds like size is not a deciding factor for you. For what you want to do with the gun, the Bersa will serve you better, you can actually hit things with it and it holds 10 rounds instead of 7.

[WhittlersMama]

Happened past this thread.

I'm not a Beretta employee, but they are made in America and a quailty firearm!

Please try CCI minni mags thru your gun before you pass judgement! I don't like the hollow points (stingers) due to accuracy.

I have taken many woodchuck at a marked 70ft. with my little Beretta 21A, I swear to God! And hope he don't hold it against me either! They were stealing my insulation from under my home.

I love the safety features so much on my 21A that I trust it to sleep with, in my pocket! Half cock so the hammer stays off of the shell, even if dropped, flip up barrel if you need to load or disable the weapon quickly (in any mode), (single or double action). How could you ask for more?

I so love my Beretta 21A that I decided to carve my own grips for it because I couldn't find anything I liked Made in America. Following my friends advice, I began to market them, hence the WhittlersMama Beretta 21A grip was made!

I have arthritis and can't keep up with demand (the reason I like my grips). Cops and Citizens alike love these because you can use your 21A one handed! Flip the barrel, eject the clip, all with a phone or walkie talkie in your other hand!

The Beretta 21A is precision "Made in America" and loves CCI Minni-mags!

[WhittlersMama]

If you try to google WhittlersMama, please be patient. I make grips one set at a time.

I'll have more listed by the end of the week on my site. Like I said, I have arthritis and will only be able to carve for so long.

I laugh because I'm glad that I can work with hammer and chisel better than with pen and paper!

http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n585/OldFlabergeezer/custom%20beretta%2021a%20grips/21afauxwalnute-m.jpg

[galena]

I would go with the Bersa. Had one several years ago before they used the Firestorm name. Great little gun, the only reason I sold it was because I got a Walther PP in .22RF which I liked liked simply because of the Walther name. Keep shootin'

[MCgunner]

Go with the Bersa. I've heard good things about it and I know the Beretta is a POS, had one, not the 21A, but a .22 short little brother. That thing was a POS, when it wasn't misfiring, it was jamming. Every kind of jam, too. :rolleyes: I'll not mess with another, but I've considered getting the Bersa.

[group17]

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/5813/p1000284.jpg
Go with a Bersa/ Firestorm if size is not an issue. Mine has never jammed with mini mags.

[snorko]

I own both and love to shoot both. the Bersa has been a little more reliable for me. Since you mentioned snakes, you may want to consider an ultra light revolver such as the S&W 317 Airlight (pricey) or a Taurus ultralight snubby. Both have 8-9 shot capacity and weigh little. Also, being revolvers, you have the ability to mix ammo such as first two rounds shotshells, rest whatever.

[PX15]

FWIW:

Never shot the Beretta, but if you "google" or use the "search" function on the various firearm forums I think you'll find the little 21A has a reputation for less than stellar reliability.

I do have the Firestorm FS22..

I've probably shot 3-4 thousand rounds thru it with absolute reliability, and surprising accuracy.. The FS22 "heritage" I've read comes from the original Walther PP pistol, and the grip ergonomics are excellent, and it "feels" perfect in the hand.

Recently it developed a problem and since all Bersa/Firestorms come with a lifetime warranty I sent it off to one of the regional warranty repair shops and they fixed it free and sent it back.

No fuss, no muss.

IF I were looking for the type 22 cal pistol you are looking for I wouldn't buy either the Firestorm or Beretta. I'd buy a Ruger "Standard" 22.. They last forever and ever, amen.

Many years ago we had lake property, overloaded with water snakes and I used a Ruger Standard to dispatch a bazillion of 'em.. It WAS my "tackle box" choice.

Just personal opinion, no offense to Beretta 21 lovers.

Jesse

[chrome_austex]

My Bersa Firestorm 22 has been good to me. I've no experience with the Beretta, but it looks way to small to be much fun.

The Bersa has a good trigger, and its the firing pin is blocked while on safe, unlike many 22 autoloaders. Most small autoloaders will prefer high-velocity rounds (and the Bersa is no exception).

[franco45]

I have owned both. I still own the Bersa/Firestorm. Enough said.

[WhittlersMama]

It amazes me how many people are badmouthing the 21A here and have probably never done any research to back it up!

GRP17, How far away was that target shot, and what was your method? I swear to God at 50ft. not one would be out of the red w/ my Beretta (two hand standing) slow fire.

The difference is the ammo. Please pay attention to what I'm saying here!!! The Beretta 21a is a very accurate/ reliable little pistol given the right ammo is used! I’m just sick of hearing different!

Beretta 21A is much smaller (by1 ½”) and 1” of that is barrel length. Of course there is inherent loss of accuracy to some small extent! However this is where ammo comes in.

http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n585/OldFlabergeezer/22.jpg

Do you see the bullet on the left? See how high it’s crimp is and how much smaller the projectile is than the bullet on the right? Think there’s any weight difference there?

Do you think there’s and difference in the amount of surface in contact with the lands and grooves in your barrel as powder ignites and spits the lead out? Do you think this would cause greater blow backpressure (using the bullet on the right), which would result in NO jamming?

The bullet on the left is a CCI Stinger… The bullet on the right is a CCI minni mag.

Basing judgment against the 21A w/o running CCI Minni Mags is like me saying I hate Ford Trucks because I can’t fill it with my garden hose and every bit as ignorant.

[WhittlersMama]

I've got nothing against Bersa, or people that like them better than the 21A. However, try the minni-mags and see an increase in accuracy in just about any .22Lr. This now brings forth argument upon how effective hollow points are with .22 ammo... I'll stay out of that one!

[TennJed]

Whittlermama I am sorry I don't see the comparision to the garden hose at all. It is more like saying your ford truck will only run on one type of gas. After all there are more types of 22lr than just cci. Some people like the idea of having a plinker that they are not ammo limited on. If it was a high end target gun it might be different. The 21a is a plinker gun to most and plinking guns are best when they will fire what you have on hand

[FMJMIKE]

I owned a Beretta 15 years ago. I now own a Bersa. I like the Bersa better. Better sights. Fits my hand better. Mine has been 100% reliable with cheap Federal bulk pack from Walmart.............:D
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/mbmphoto/BERSA1.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/mbmphoto/BERSA2.jpg

[stanmo]

I loved my Beretta, but my girlfriend fell in love with it also so I gave it to her. I would like to get another one to match my 2 tone Tomcat.
No "Lock Hole" in the Beretta.
Mine didn't like Federal bulk pack either, it was flawless with CCI ammo.

[stanmo]

Not having an ejector is not a problem in the Beretta. When you hit the lever to open the barrel it flings the unfired shell across the room.

[chicharrones]

I've had my Beretta Bobcat since the mid 1990s. It used to somewhat run on CCI Stingers. It only runs fairly well on CCI round nose Mini-Mags when it wants to. I've had up to 50 to 70 rounds feed in a row on the Beretta using Mini-Mags.

I've only owned the Bersa made Firestorm .22 for about 8 months. After a couple hundred rounds breaking in with Mini-Mags, the Bersa will eat at least 4 other types of ammo very well in my experience.

The Bersa is a better functioning gun and runs well for hundreds of rounds, not just a few magazines like the Beretta. Plus, the Bersa has better sights, a longer sight radius, and fits the hand better due to its size. Takedown is no harder for the Bersa than the Beretta.

It really is simple. If you want a .22 auto for plinking and practice with a lot of rounds fired downrange, pick the Bersa over the Beretta. If you want an Italian branded gun that fits in your pocket and all you're going to do is fire a couple magazines at a time, pick the Beretta.

[usp9]

The Bersa .22 has had some recent issues with barrels that are too tight. This is manifested by being hard to clean and bulged brass. The Bersa is a fun plinker, but not a high quality firearm, but at least it is fairly inexpensive.

[old grinch]

I,ve been gone for a while ( so long I forgot my password and had to register again ) but I see my old post has been brought back from the dead . Anyway back in 2003 I bought the beretta 21a and I have been happy with it . Its well made for a small gun plus with a pocket holster it will fit in my backpocket ,cargo pocket or fishing vest pocket . I like the tip up barrel. The sights aren't bad once you get used to them . I've probably fired about 900 to 1000 rounds though it .mostly cci mini mags and silver box winchesters . I' ve had no jams with it . For a larger more accurate .22 I have my beretta neos .