[Redemption]

I haven't seen any of this on the National news.:rolleyes: I thought I would let you guys in other parts of the country what is happening here. Coincidence?

http://www.wxyz.com/mostpopular/story/Massive-Federal-Raid-in-Lenawee-County/eE6ZljBWa0uFOMUdtOLzvw.cspx

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/03/fbi-raid-northwest-indiana-hammond-whiting-clarendon-hills.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/28/arrests-alleged-militia-activity-midwest/?test=latestnews

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2010/03/28/front/doc4bae9ec40d713435821346.txt

[mljdeckard]

.....wait for it.........

[everallm]

It appears, from the news and various boards out there (and no one will have details until the charges are unsealed in court at 10:00am), that a group called the Hutaree had been

a. Making threats against individuals and other militia groups
b. Manufacturing and distributing pipe bombs

This is unattributed and so needs to be treated as such at this moment

[Evergreen]

Saw this article, that the ATF and other government agencies were raiding facilities and arresting members of a so-called militia. From the sounds of it, it was a bunch of Christian guys who seem to band together and legally own weapons. I don't understand whats going on here? Did they commmit a crime? Did they purchase illegal weapons? Is it against the laws for groups of men to come together in the name of religion and defense?

This looks very scary to me. I am wondering if this is just the beginning of the government trying to attempt to remove our rights to keep and bear arms. I am still wanting a good explanation besides the vague news articles of the crimes these people committed. If they committed no crime, I think those government agents should be convicted of treason.

Perhaps I am not well versed in the law, but I don't get whats going on here.. Please if anyone can share some insight.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/62/2010/march/29/at-least-3-arrests-after-fbi-raids-in-midwest.html

[1911Tuner]

They would shoot guns and often wore camouflage, according to Brugger and her daughter, Heidi Wood.

Well now! Can't have that sort of thing, can we? People out in the boondocks, all cammo-ed up and shootin' guns and such.

Oh, wait...

There might be more to this story. Stay tuned.

[sernv99]

here we go with the tin foil hat folks.....you do not even have all the facts and you are making false assumptions....

[Blackrock]

In reading some other articles on this situation it was mentioned they were making and offering pipe bombs for sale. That in itself is enough to get them locked up.

[Evergreen]

I am making assumptions because after reading like 10 news articles on this same event, I am yet to hear anything about the crime they commited, just rumors. Usually when a group of criminals are arrested you hear about the crime first and the arrests second. These news articles sound awkward because there is not the slightest bit of information about anything they did wrong except be Christians, own guns, live in woods and band together.

Yeah, is it a crime to ask questions and make assumptions?

And, I don't trust the ATF, nor the feds under our current leadership. Sorry if I seem out of place for that.

All I am asking here, is what they did? If you have the information that all our news agencies haven't yet been able to find, I like to know.

The only thing I have heard was they threatened some Islamic groups. Nobody mentioned the extent or details of these "so-called" threats. ANd Islamic groups daily preach for the death and destruction of Americans and "The West", so how come the ATF or FBI isn't raiding their organizations?



In reading some other articles on this situation it was mentioned they were making and offering pipe bombs for sale. That in itself is enough to get them locked up.
I have heard the pipe bomb rumor. The Islamic group threat rumor, etc etc.. I like some concrete evidence.

[Ryder]

I heard they sold a pipe bomb.

Proabably the typical setup where an informant convinces some poor slob into doing him a favor.

[Evergreen]

I have my doubts about the so-called pipe bomb bust... It sounds like a setup to me.. I think this goes a bit deeper...

But I could be wrong. Maybe these guys really are a bunch of morons afterall.. Why woudl a milita-group already under watch by the feds, be doing risky activites like selling bombs...

I think paranoid milita groups like this might construct their own pipe bombs, but to go around selling them to people?

[Ryder]

Why does it have anything to do with the group they belong to? If you go rob a bank does that mean everyone at TheHighRoad is also a criminal?

They issued search warrants. There was no mention of any evidence being seized. Just arrests.

[dom1104]

The ATF is not your best buddy. The End. :)

[ants]

Well, there's your answer. Right in the first paragraph of the link you provided.
The news articles contain no information on the crimes because the warrants are sealed.
The articles only mention the arrests, because that's the only news in the story.





So we wait until warrants are unsealed, or charges are filed, or other data is uncovered.
That's it, friend. Nothing more to say until we have further information.

With no further information, bashing the investigating agency is worthless at this point.
Wait until you know something certain.

[sernv99]

The only thing I have heard was they threatened some Islamic groups. Nobody mentioned the extent or details of these "so-called" threats. ANd Islamic groups daily preach for the death and destruction of Americans and "The West", so how come the ATF or FBI isn't raiding their organizations?

yeah and those groups who do preach, which is covered under the 1st amendment, are probably be watched by the feds to see if they are about to act on their "threats", whatever they may be...lots of groups of varying religious and idealogical beliefs go around each day, running their mouths and ranting about something they do not like.

and your statements seem to say that you think these folks got rounded up based on their religion alone (which is pure b.s.)....you have already made up your mind about the "truth" behind these raids so why bother asking any more questions on why these people got raided?

[Travis McGee]

Sounds to me like Holder has his marching orders: Make a connection between the tea party movement and "right wing terrorists." They probably have files on dozens of groups, with possible niggling gun violations depending on who is doing the investigating. Then the word comes down: "We need some showy arrests ASAP! Make it happen!"

Just my dos centavos.

[Evergreen]

and your statements seem to say that you think these folks got rounded up based on their religion alone (which is pure b.s.)....you have already made up your mind about the "truth" behind these raids so why bother asking any more questions on why these people got raided?

YOu seem to know everything about what I think. Well, you're jumping the gun.. LOL.. I have not made my mind up at all. I want to hear facts as to "WHY" they were raided and arrested. Its more of my concern about our constitutional rights which are currently being threatened.

ONe thing I know is that the members of the group were highly trained in military tactics and weaponry. Many are claiming the government felt threatened by this group and their skills. This too, may or may not be true.

Yes, perhaps many will disagree, but I do feel the government is much harder on Christian groups than Islamic groups. Perhaps its because fanatical Christian groups are not as common? I am not really sure. Perhaps, its just a biased against Christians. Maybe a mix of both. One thing I know, is that if Christians own guns and start reciting bible verses, they are immediately labelled as "fanatics" by leftists. I have been called a fanatic many times, just because I own a gun and read my bible. LOL.

Anyhow, please I advise no one here to get all emotional and take it personally. All I am reading in news reports is a bunch of Chrsitian guys with guns got raided. And, now I hear endless theories, yet no concrete evidence of why they are sitting in jail right now.

Yeah , I am paranoid, because I fear one day these raids may be commonplace and I don't trust our government, our leader, Islamic groups or the ATF.

Sorry.

[Travis McGee]

Any time I hear about an arrest of a gunnie for pipe bombs, I think about how easy it is to manufacture a pipe bomb case against just about any ammunition reloader. Put gunpowder together with what almost anybody has in their garage, basement and workshop, and voila, "pipe bomb making materials!" That, plus the manufactured testimony of any ATF dirtbag snitch for a search warrant, and the reloader is now defending himself against a charge of possessing bomb-making materials.

Something to consider in these crazy times.

[Sam1911]

THR isn't a general militia info site. I don't see any 2nd Amendment specific information in those articles -- in fact, very little info is presented at all.

If something comes to light that is relevant to this forum, please PM me and I'll open this thread back up.

Thanks!

[DC300a]

THe article I read said more info would be released aftr they appeared in court this morning... so we will have to wait and see....

[JohnBT]

"I do feel the government is much harder on Christian groups than Islamic groups."

Tell it to the Islamic groups in Iraq and Afganistan. You're kidding, right?

Meanwhile, I hear the government is planning a raid in Rome on the Pope for being a Christian. They're debating whether to raid the Methodists or Baptists next. Quick, I need a tinfoil refill, I'm all out.

John

[Sav .250]

Just enough information to stoke the fire.

[ForumSurfer]

Yes, perhaps many will disagree, but I do feel the government is much harder on Christian groups than Islamic groups.

I don't agree with you. My Christian group attracts zero attention on the ATF radar. A group that starts website, owns collective property, practices regularly for the end of days and starts a website spewing single line verses taken out text is gonna attract attention...Christian, Muslim or whatever. :scrutiny:

I have been called a fanatic many times, just because I own a gun and read my bible. LOL.

Yeah, my ex-girlfriend called me a Bible-thumper when we first met for that same reason, lol. She told me that my nightstand made me a hypocrite since it contains only an alarm clock, a Bible and a gun. I know many who would have blown up at these. I simply swallowed my pride and dealt with the issue slowly over time. We're no longer together, but she is back in church these days thumpin her old Bible and she has a ccw permit. :D

ATF dirtbag snitch

While I see your point, but informants are a means to gather information. Lines like that make it sound as if no one should report anyone else to the authorities. I've heard a few drug dealers use the same phrase.

[Evergreen]

Tell it to the Islamic groups in Iraq and Afganistan. You're kidding, right?

Meanwhile, I hear the government is planning a raid in Rome on the Pope for being a Christian. They're debating whether to raid the Methodists or Baptists next. Quick, I need a tinfoil refill, I'm all out.


Well I didn't want to get into a religious argument. I rather just keep on the subject. But for your information, the wars in Iraq and Afghanstian are being fought over oil and the fact that the militant groups caused massive amounts of terrorist attacks on our home soil. They were chanting to kill us for years and we even gave them weapons, as long as they didn't point thema t us.


Back to the subject, what I know so far is a bunch of Christian gun-owners living in the wilderness were arrested. I rarely hear a news report where a group of people are raided and arrested without some concrete evidence of them performing an illegal activity.

When the Islamic group that tried to blow up a synagogue in New York was busted trying to purchase bombs from an undercover agent, it was reportedly immediately in the news. What makes me so worried is that there is no talk about the crimes they commited.

Sorry, I suppose anyone who suspects foul play wiht the government is a conspiracy theorist.. Yeah, like our government has always been our friend. Anyone remember the AWB ban?? Just because your sitting in front of your computer in your nice home with your cup of coffee living an easy life, doesn't mean one day you won't be tossed into a jail cell on strange charges and find your house ransacked. People in China live this way day to day. Just look what happened with Google. They are pulling out, because the government was hacking into their system, trying to find emails from people they believed from "threats" to their power.

Big government hates armed citizenry. Thats why I am so concerned about this article. It can totally be a false alarm and you can call me all the bad names yoiu want.

I don't get why people slam their fellow citizen for being concerned. Better to be paranoid than naive.



A person claiming to be a member of the Hutaree posted a message online pleading for help and claiming that officials "broke into homes and took children and used the tasers on wives ... AND my son who is 12."

[rbernie]

Well I didn't want to get into a religious argument. I rather just keep on the subject.But you didn't. And frankly, until the warrants are unsealed there is nothing to talk about and nothing to do but indulge in pointless and imflammatory spectulation.

And so we're done.