More on ATK and Military Brass


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Ed Harris
March 29, 2010, 07:46 AM
ATK/Alliant Techsystems, a private company with huge government munitions contracts, offers military installation commanders the option of selling the used cartridge cases directly to ATK, allowing ATK to destroy the brass right on-site, using portable shredders.

The shredded brass is worth only about a quarter the value of intact, once-fired cartridge cases. The reason installation commanders accept the deal anyway, despite it being such a ripoff to taxpayers, is that the proceeds go directly to that military installation's discretionary fund, rather than into the DoD budget.

Particularly offensive is the fact that in brochures making the sales pitch to base commanders (here's an overview of the program, and here's one specifically for Ft. Irwin, CA - both pdf files), one of the selling points used in advocating this approach is the very fact that the used cartridge cases will never be available on the civilian market… (There’s a basic fallacy in ATK’s response [http://www.atk.com/ContactUs/contactus_corporate.asp] – once the brass has been demilled, it can’t be reloaded. Note that the ATK link will allow you to e-mail ATK, parent company of Federal, CCI and Speer, with your thoughts.)

http://www.examiner.com/x-2581-St-Louis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d26-Used-military-cartridge-brass-once-again-being-destroyedrobbing-shooters-taxpayers---

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GW Staar
March 29, 2010, 11:23 AM
Your ATK URL doesn't work...try this.
http://www.atk.com/ContactUs/contactus_corporate.asp

As much as I like RCBS, CCI, and Alliant products. For me it'll be a buying freeze until something changes.

I just fired off an Email to them....and think everybody else should too.

I'd really like to see them sell RCBS. They are a really great group of people, and deserve to be able to work without being controlled and stifled by a giant corporation.

dcbridgwater
March 29, 2010, 11:51 AM
I think ATK is in to thick with the government to be of any use to us reloaders, which is why when the primers shortage started I decided not to to purchase any more ATK products unless there was no other choice. I feel as as big of a company that they are they should have been able to do more to reduce the shortage. If they would have wanted to! So now all the ATK products are on my do not buy list. Which is one of the reasons I chose a Redding Press instead of an RCBS. I have also started buying Hodgdon powder instead of Alliant. It is my unqualified opinion that ATK has dumped on the average reloader in favor of a quick buck. It just is not right that the RCBS Rock Chucker is made in China.

This is just my opinion and we all know like something else we all have one.:)

ants
March 29, 2010, 01:06 PM
Go to today's Shooting Wire for an update. It does not appear to be as dire as reported. ATK has offered a demilling service, but it doesn't seem that many bases are considering it.

Just to make sure our needs are known, we should send our comments to ATK's CEO Mark DeYoung. His statements today backpedal considerably. He says they are recalling the offending brochure.

Also, send our comments to your respective members of Congress.

snuffy
March 29, 2010, 10:48 PM
Here's where to look for all of what they do;

http://www.atk.com/corporateoverview...amentgroup.asp

Also, in that URL, there's this list of companies they own, if you feel better by NOT buying anything from them.

Major Products and Programs — Commercial

* Federal Premium and Estate Cartridge ammunition
* CCI, Speer, Lawman, and Blazer ammunition
* Gunslick, Outers and Shooters Ridge gun care and shooting accessories
* RCBS reloading equipment
* Champion clay targets
* Weaver mounting systems
* Alliant Powder and gun powders for sporting re-loaders and ammunition manufacturers
* Eagle Industries law enforcement tactical accessories

medalguy
March 30, 2010, 12:17 AM
I just fired off a very courteous letter informing them that I would purchase no more CCI, RCBS, or Alliant products. I see I need to add a few more brands to that list.

What really makes me mad is not the simple fact that they are trying to tie up the brass market, but the verbage they are using to describe all of us. Saying that no one can use the brass against a LEO or military personnel. When has that EVER happened? Guilty until proven innocent.

I would urge everyone on this board to write a courteous email and let them know we are mad and won't be buying their products any more. They didn't say they were stopping the program, just withdrawing the brochure as I read it. The program is still in effect.

Diamondback6
March 30, 2010, 12:35 AM
Snuffy, linky no worky.

k&j 223
March 30, 2010, 01:25 AM
Thank you ED, for the heads up. K & j 223

snuffy
March 30, 2010, 01:30 AM
DB6, I still had it up on a tab, here's the whole page that the link was to.

ATK Armament Systems
ATK Armament Systems is the largest ammunition manufacturing entity in the world, supplying products to the military, hunting, sport shooting, homeland security, and law enforcement markets. The group operates the ATK Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Missouri, where it has the capacity to produce 1.5 billion rounds of small-caliber ammunition annually. It also operates the Radford Army Ammunition Plant in Radford, Virginia, where it produces rocket and gun propellants and other energetic materials. The groups commercial products include some of the most widely known and respected brands in the industry, including Federal, CCI, Speer, and Outers.

Headquarters: Clearfield, Utah
Employees: Approximately 8,500
President: Karen Davies
Divisions

* ATK Small Caliber Systems
* ATK Energetic Systems
* ATK Integrated Weapons Systems
* ATK Commercial Products
* ATK Tactical Systems

Operating Locations

* Birmingham, Alabama
* Mesa, Arizona
* Oroville, California
* Lewiston, Idaho
* Richmond, Indiana
* Anoka, Minnesota
* Independence, Missouri
* St. Louis, Missouri
* Fayetteville, North Carolina
* Clearfield, Utah
* Radford, Virginia
* Virginia Beach, Virginia
* Onalaska, Wisconsin
* Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
* Lares, Puerto Rico
* Mayaguez, Puerto Rico

Major Products and Programs — Military

* Small-caliber ammunition
* Medium-caliber ammunition
* Medium-caliber gun systems
* Environmentally friendly ammunition
* Sole U.S. manufacturer of TNT
* Propellants for ammunition and tactical rockets
* Modular Artillery Charge System
* Management of Lake City Army Ammunition Plant and Radford Army Ammunition Plant
* Electronics and fire-control integration
* Military tactical accessories

Major Products and Programs — Commercial

* Federal Premium and Estate Cartridge ammunition
* CCI, Speer, Lawman, and Blazer ammunition
* Gunslick, Outers and Shooters Ridge gun care and shooting accessories
* RCBS reloading equipment
* Champion clay targets
* Weaver mounting systems
* Alliant Powder and gun powders for sporting re-loaders and ammunition manufacturers
* Eagle Industries law enforcement tactical accessories

Locations and Contact Information

evan price
March 30, 2010, 03:21 AM
About 90% of this I really can't fault ATK for.

They use a gazillion tons of brass every year making ammo for the military. It's natural for them to want to buy it back- it's known alloy and it's what they need- and save as much money as possible. The only procedural fault might be that they do not go through the DRMO process to net as much income for us taxpayers as possible.

The 10% that totally and utterly p*sses me off is the little blurbs about "Doing this will deny brass to terrorists" and etc.
ATK/Alliant is WELL AWARE that most of the surplus brass purchased through Government Liquidations/DRMO is bought by companies like Scharch, Black Hills, Georgia Arms, etc. who make ammo to sell to LEO agencies for training purposes, as well as civilian shooters.

I highly doubt the "terrorists" they are considering will bother to run out and buy 13,000 pounds of brass to reload a few for a bad-guy mission. The truth of this is that ATK is trying to use that broad brush, "Terrorism" to infer that only Achmed Amagonnablowyouup is sitting in a big empty warehouse, laughing maniacally as he churns out reman .223 using lake city brass for his illegally modified full auto M16's. What they really mean is that all of us shooters are potentially Timothy McVeighs, if we only had a source of reloadable .223 brass to take out our frustration on Uncle Sugar.

I am for one, totally sick and tired of being looked at as a "Domestic Terrorist".
The time will come when honest, upstanding citizens will finally realize that "Well, if the government keeps calling me a terrorist, might just be time to hoist that black flag and start slitting throats."

ATK's backpedalling missive indicates only that they are trying to keep the bad PR minimized. The internal operations of a global giant like ATK/Alliant mean the left and right hands don't always know what each other are doing, but c'mon- this doesn't represent ATK's core beliefs? Really?

You guys wrote it. Your management approved it. You own it.

medalguy
March 30, 2010, 09:59 AM
Note that their press release specifically states they have only recalled the offensive brochure. They have NOT stopped or curtailed their buyback program for military brass. KEEP THOSE CARDS AND LETTERS GOING FOLKS!

SlamFire1
March 30, 2010, 10:28 AM
Gents: it is all about maximizing profits.


And about maximizing profits now, not later.


I have no doubt that once ATK sucks the maximize profits from CCI, Federal, Alliant, RCBS, etc, they will put lipstick on the pigs and sell them.

GW Staar
March 30, 2010, 11:53 AM
Note that their press release specifically states they have only recalled the offensive brochure. They have NOT stopped or curtailed their buyback program for military brass. KEEP THOSE CARDS AND LETTERS GOING FOLKS!

I emailed them and got a reply...They added one line to their canned statement. Here's the email they sent.

Dear valued customer:
Thank you for bringing the scrap brass program information to our attention.

ATK is a strong supporter of our armed forces, the shooting sports industry, second amendment rights and all of our customers who choose to reload ammunition. In fact, ATK is a leader in the reloading market. A dated brochure and presentation have caused confusion in the marketplace and do not reflect the views of our company and will be immediately withdrawn. As a service to our military customers, we routinely handle demil operations for various munitions and respond to requests from military installations for reclamation and recycling of military items. Each contract is awarded through the military installation’s procurement process. The installations receive fair value for the brass.

ATK fully supports the provision passed by Congress last year to ensure that demilitarized spent brass casings remain available for civilian use.

We appreciate your support of our industry.

If that's true then why do they take portable shredders to military bases. Either they lie or public outcry has changed their position...we can only hope.

I suggested to them that they sell RCBS before their policies destroy a fine company, and make it of no worth to them or anyone else, to keep or buy, or sell.

P.S. What does "demilitarized" mean? I was under the impression that it means rendered unusable. (smashed or shredded) This canned statement ATK is pushing (on the Alliant site as well) may be one "polished" by the word wizards who push, "it's not what what we say, its how it's perceived by the dumb masses."

counterclockwise
March 31, 2010, 12:21 AM
Predatory capitalism is a bitch. It comes from FTC losing the stomach for stopping mergers and acquisitions not in the best interest of the country. ATK is just trying to maximize profits for their stockholders. BUT, if they are engaging the base commanders in a deal that circumvents the intent of congress, ergo the DRMO/DRMS guidelines, then the matter needs to be referred to congressional oversite committee, DoJ, JAG, etc. for investigation and corrective action.

I agree the wording of that brochure was despicable.

Jesse Heywood
March 31, 2010, 09:39 AM
While directing anger toward ATK sounds like the right thing to do, they are not the best target at which to aim. The real target is our government. They are creating the demand for a service. If ATK doesn't crush the brass, another company will. Your messages will be of more value if they are sent to your congressmen.

ClickClickD'oh
March 31, 2010, 09:52 AM
I just added to my pre-existing shares of ATK stock.

Thanks for the heads up guys.

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