I get tighter groups with mastercastbullets 124gr tc's over RDot than most jacketed slugs in my 5906 S&W.
March 30, 2010, 10:28 AM
I have been using 115gr FMJ with 7.7 gr of blue dot---mild & accurate out of my P-35
Browning----it may be more my 1,5 # trigger than the bullets..................LOL
March 30, 2010, 10:34 AM
I use Missiouri bullets 125gr LRN "small ball" over 3.8g Red Dot. Shoots very accurate and functions all my pistols without beating them, me or my brass up.
bds' recommendation on HP38/WW231 is also a good one that I've loaded very similar to in the past.
March 30, 2010, 04:45 PM
I use the following:
Primer: Winchester small pistol
Bullet: 121 grain Zero JHP, Be aware that this is a .356 38 super bullet that works well for me but some may say not to use them.
Powder: 4gr of VV N320, it is more expensive but is by far the cleanest burning powder I have ever used.
OAL: 1.1", I realize this is short but my CZ requires this due to the extremely short lead in the barrel.
This load is a mild minor PF load for me out of my gun, but I would advise starting at 3.5 grains and working up.
March 30, 2010, 05:10 PM
I load a lot of Missouri Bullet Company 124 LRN over the top of Ramshot Zip.
Works great for general purpose practice rounds. For jacketed I use bullets from Roze distributing.
March 31, 2010, 10:16 PM
115 gr LRN , Unique lit by a CCI small pistol primer
April 1, 2010, 02:06 PM
WCC MilSurp brass
Remington 1 1/2 primers
Remington 115 FMJ bullets
And work up carefully to somewhere in the 7.0-7.4 grain range.
I get +P+ velocities (1325-1350 FPS) at low end +p pressure levels (judging pressure by the number of times I can reload the case before the primer pockets start to loosen)
April 1, 2010, 03:17 PM
115gr. Montana Gold FMJ or HP, 4.7gr. W231, 1.11" (RN), 1.07" (HP) OAL. Works in everything I own, from plastic pistols to Hi-Power. It's as accurate as I am. Been putting together that load for upwards of 20 years - at least with that weight bullet, if not a Montana Gold.
April 1, 2010, 06:08 PM
4.8 gr W231/HP38, 115gr FMJ Hornady or Montana Gold, CCI sp primer
April 1, 2010, 10:39 PM
Well I found some plated bullets made by some company called Barry's at 115grains and picked up some W231.
How does 4.6 grain sound to start off? the Winchester reloading site is a bit confusining because they list 2 different bullets only @ 115 grains; the first one is a Lead Nose round (4.3 to 2.8 grains) and another one that I have no idea what the code stands for is "SPR GDHP", whatever that is, its listed at 4.7 to 5.1.
Which one should I pick?
April 1, 2010, 10:50 PM
Lead Nose round (4.3 to 2.8 grains)
Referencing the Winchester website for W231 for 9mm, load data for Lead Round Nose reads 4.3 to 4.8 grain with 1.10" OAL.
and another one that I have no idea what the code stands for is "SPR GDHP", whatever that is, its listed at 4.7 to 5.1.
SPR GDHP = Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point.
I normally load 5%-10% below max load data for lead/plated bullets. Also, note that 4.7 to 5.1 grain for jacketed bullet is with the longer 1.125" OAL.
You should be fine starting at 4.6gr for 115gr plated bullets. Have you determined which OAL feeds/chambers well for your pistol from the magazine?
April 1, 2010, 11:01 PM
Have you determined which OAL feeds/chambers well for your pistol from the magazine?
Im glad you brought this up - on my rifle I use a hornady OAL gauge that I use to determine the OAL of the cartridge, but on this pistol Im running kinda blind! I had some American Eagle ammo that I used in it a couple of days ago, which ran flawlessly, and I measured it to be 1.14-1.15" so I thought I'll go with that length. Is there a better way to determine the OAL in a semiauto pistol?
April 1, 2010, 11:05 PM
6.4 power pistol 115 fmj
cci 500 1.135 full power load
4.8 231 115 fmj cci 500 current load
April 1, 2010, 11:15 PM
Is there a better way to determine the OAL in a semiauto pistol?
I usually start with a couple of dummy rounds (no powder/primer) with the usual OAL for the particular caliber (9mm/40S&W = 1.125", 45ACP = 1.25" OAL) and check the feeding/chambering from the magazine by releasing the slide by hand .
If the dummy rounds don't feed/chamber well, I gradually decrease the OAL (say by 0.005") until I have reliable feeding/chambering.
Example for 9mm - Start with 1.125" OAL and decrease by 1.12", 1.115", 1.11", 1.105", 1.10"
Once I have reliable feeding/chambering OAL, then I move onto making test loads starting with 10%-5% below max load data.
* This usually works for FMJ/lead round nose, but for some lead bullet weights/profiles and JHPs, you may need to decrease/increase your OAL.
Here's walkalong's link to determine MAX OAL - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678)
April 2, 2010, 01:34 AM
+1 for Walkalongs OAL method.
For jacketed straight case rds (9mm, 40 cal etc.) use a fired case that hasn't been sized.
Gently push 'your' bullet into it a few thousandth's.
With your barrel removed, push this case and bullet into your chamber steadily until the case mouth seats.
Gently remove and measure the oal.
Do this with a couple more cases to check consistency.
This will give you the oal that will "touch the leade/rifling" for THAT bullet only in that gun.
Shorten this by .005 + the max variation of your press. If your press loads within +/- .004, the .005 + .004 = .009--call it .01 to subtract from the oal test.
If the test gave a MAX oal of 1.160 for an MG 124gr FMJ, then (with that bullet only) your max loaded cartridge length should be ok at 1.15" or less.
With a dummy cartridge loaded to that length, you should be a able to drop the round in the chamber, hear it seat on the case mouth, and then be able to rotate the cartridge by hand. If it will rotate, it's not touching the rifling.
Do this test for each type & brand of bullet you use. JHPs will test way shorter.
April 2, 2010, 01:51 AM
125 gr. SWC's cast & sized to 357 pushed by 6gr. VV 3 N 37 is working real nice for me in both my P226 and my G17 with KKM barrel.
April 2, 2010, 11:20 PM
Well I tried 115 grain jacketed bullet (Barry's) with 4.7 grains of W231 behind it (according to the book max is 4.8 grains) and the OAL was 1.15".
Compared to the store bought American Eagle (115 grain bullet), my handloads had FTE, especially the last one in the mag. The brass usually getting caught between the slide and chamber. I noticed that my handloads had the brass ejecting straight upward instead of to the 3 o'clock position.
Should I increase the charge or just seat the bullet deeper and keep the 4.7 grains of W231?
April 2, 2010, 11:31 PM
The brass usually getting caught between the slide and chamber. I noticed that my handloads had the brass ejecting straight upward instead of to the 3 o'clock position.
That's sign of not enough force to push the slide all the way back.
Should I increase the charge or just seat the bullet deeper and keep the 4.7 grains of W231?
Which gun are you shooting your reloads out of? Some guns (like Glocks) have stiffer recoil spring and require near max loads out of 115gr 9mm to cycle the slide properly. I seat my 115 gr FMJ bullets down to 1.125" OAL and use 4.8-4.9gr of W231 to get the slide to cycle properly.
April 2, 2010, 11:37 PM
Im shooting out of a P30. I thought reloading manual says to not exceed 4.8 grains on jacketed bullets. But it also says to seat the bullet to a OAL of 1.10" which visually seems waayyy too short! So thats why I am confused!
April 2, 2010, 11:43 PM
Im shooting out of a P30.
Duh, the OP. :D Excuse me BrokenWheel while I find my brain ....
I think the 1.15" OAL is too long. Try 4.7gr at 1.125" and 1.12" OAL and see if they work out.
If you are still having slide cycling problem at 1.12" - 1.125" OAL, then try 4.8 gr.
April 2, 2010, 11:57 PM
So you think that compressing the 4.7 grains of powder down, by decreasing the OAL by .03" will give it enough force to eject the brass?
Side note : dont you hate it when you agree to go out shooting with your friends on saturday (and to show off your new toy) so you try out your handloads the day before but all of them give you problems and you dont have the time to test out a new batch.... arrrr.
April 3, 2010, 12:05 AM
BrokenWheel, the full size Glock 22 (with 9mm conversion barrel) will cycle the slide fine using 115gr and 4.6gr of W231 at 1.125" OAL. But I had the same problem as you did when I shot the load in my Glock 27(with 9mm conversion barrel). When I increased the charge to 4.8gr, the load would cycle the slide on G27.
If you are looking for a load that WILL work, try 4.8gr of W231 at 1.125" OAL for the 115gr Berry's plated bullets. Have fun shooting tomorrow and let us know how it went.
April 3, 2010, 12:11 AM
Magnus #505 bullet (135 grain LRN) with 4.2 grains of Bullseye.
April 3, 2010, 04:06 AM
BrokenWheel, I reload my 9mms for accuracy not power or velocity. If you ever decide to leave the W231 try Unique.
For plinking I use 115gr Win bulk FMJ or Berrys 115gr w/ 5.2 gr Unique and the OL is 1.145. Try it, you will like it. Gene
April 4, 2010, 04:09 AM
BrokenWheel, for newer stiffer recoiled pistols, if you have the option to choose between 115gr and 125gr, I would recommend the heavier 125gr bullet - you will have less problem with slide fully cycling.
Were you able to make for your planned shooting?
April 4, 2010, 10:52 AM
bds - yes thanks for asking this is what I found out.
H&K P30 (P2000 and USP?) use a very stiff recoil spring. While reason for this is not clear some say HK designed the spring around a NATO 9mm cartridge which is about as hot as a +P here. Not sure about this reason but it is as it is...
If your HK is new and you reload, start in the middle and work your way up (for safety), I used 115gr plated bullets (Berry's). At the high end,4.8 grains of W231, although I didnt get FTE and the slide locked back, the brass would be ejected upward thus falling on me. That being said, I think that 4.9 or 5 grains of W231 would be appropriate in a new P30. I was at the range and tried 125 grain 9mm loaded with W231 and the results were the same as with the 115 grain bullet.
So I don't think that the weight the bullet is going to do much in ejection and slide lock - rather the powder charge. So get FMJ'ed bullets - they can be pushed faster without deforming , unlike the plated one I initially bought.
April 4, 2010, 01:14 PM
H&K P30 (P2000 and USP?) use a very stiff recoil spring. While reason for this is not clear
Glock did the same thing with their Gen4 models, the new Gen4 models have even stiffer recoil springs than Gen3 models (which were stiff enough already).
The reason for this is all the hot factory JHPs (Golden Saber, Ranger SXT, etc.) that were released in recent years that pushed the terminal performance up but also increased the felt recoil for the shooters. The stiffer recoil springs help reduce the felt recoil for these rounds, but the milder practice reloads will fail to fully cycle the slides and stove pipe the spent cases.
This is the reason why I load my 115gr Winchester FMJ to 4.9gr of W231/HP38 at 1.125" OAL for my Gen3 Glocks. I suggested 125gr over 115gr because often they are priced same or similar and the 125gr bullet requires less powder charge (4.3gr vs 4.9gr). Other than copper FMJ, brass jacketed Montana Gold and Rainier Ballistics copper plated bullets are other great lower cost alternatives to copper FMJ (BTW, I push Rainier bullets as fast as FMJ with no problems) - THR member longdayjake stocks both bullets at http://www.rmrbullets.com/).
So, how do you like the P30?
April 4, 2010, 08:50 PM
Thanks for the information, (I always thought that 125gr bullets were going to cost more than 115!), but your point about using less charge makes sense.
As for the P30, I really like it. I got the LEM version which takes some practice but I like the trigger over all. Its smooth but the pull and reset is long. The P30 feels that it is custom made for normal sized to smaller hands. All the other pistols I tried (Glocks, XD's,USP) seemed to be designed for gorilla sized hands and thus felt unwieldy, and felt like my hand had to accommodate the grip, the P30 's grip seems to accommodate me.
Definitely recommend this pistol.
April 5, 2010, 05:50 PM
I'm using the Berry's 115 grain with 4.6 grain Win 231 and a 1.30" OAL.
They are fairly light loads but accurate and decent for practice.
April 6, 2010, 01:25 AM
I use 7.4 gr. of blue dot with small pistol magnum primers with 115gr. hornady fmj rn in my sprigfield xd-9
May 17, 2010, 12:43 AM
I hate to bring up (my) old thread but using the method to determine the OAL, outlined in a couple of threads, I measured 1.200". So I should subtract .005", giving me an ideal OAL of 1.195?
That seems way too long! I am sure that I measured it correctly.
May 17, 2010, 01:22 AM
125 grain FMJ 4.1 gr VV N 320.
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