7.62x39 Ammo Effectiveness


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frankge
March 30, 2010, 01:44 PM
Hello all,

I am reloading 7.62x39 (yes I know its a money hole but then again I own a boat too...). its the hobby of it is why. I have Wolf, Wolf Military, and Bear ammo and was shooting it at the range this weekend. Bear seemed a bit more accurate but could not really tell any difference.

My question is effectiveness against say soft targets and then hard i.e car doors or cinderblock of my reloads.

1. Hornady 123g V-MAX with 28 grains AA1680

2. Sierra SP 125g with 27 grains AA1680

3. Milspec pulls 147g Steel Core BTFMJ with 22.5 grains AA1680 -

I just bought some Alliant RL-7 to see how that does recently.

Guess it's just supposition but it's really hard to test effectiveness against targes at the range or in the action bays. All loads are WAY more accurate out of my AK-47 with the standard 16" barrel and AK-74 muzzle brake than the "wildlife" ammo.

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rcmodel
March 30, 2010, 02:11 PM
If you are asking about SD use, the SP or V-Max will be far more effective then the too heavy for caliber 147 grain AP pulls. You simply can't get enough velocity out of them in the little 7.62x39 case.

BTW: Both your 123 & 125 grain bullet AA1680 loads are way over Maximum in the Lyman & Hornady manuals. Hornady #6 says 23.9 grains MAX, not 28.0 grains!!

I have no idea what the MAX is with 147 grain Armor Piercing bullets because no one lists data for them that I am aware of.

But regardless of that, gas operated AK-47's aren't the best place to be playing around with over max loads like that!

rc

frankge
March 30, 2010, 02:19 PM
I was looking for all around clout, My 870 is my HD arm of choice, then my pistols. "Your honor, I was justified shooting the absolute s@#$ out of the intruder wth my trusty AK-47!" ;)

regarding the load data, the ballistician from Accurate sent me this chart. I have shot these and they feel not much hotter than the Wolf ammo which is not hot to begin with... I worked them up to max (on purpose) and watched primer, report, etc. If I want to plink I have the wolf and such.

rcmodel
March 30, 2010, 02:26 PM
Well, O.K. then.
I didn't have the AA data handy here at the computer.

rc

armoredman
March 30, 2010, 02:42 PM
I use 24 grains AA#1680, but am working up with the round in my CZ 527 for longer range accuracy, using Hornady 123gr FMJ and SP, plus Speer 125gr SP . Good luck, let us know what you come up with, please!

frankge
March 30, 2010, 03:31 PM
I wil tell you though the lighter loads around 25.5grains were more accurate than the max loads. The 147 Steel cores are not AP, just soft steel like so many Chinese rounds were - I think they are from 7.62x54 rounds. The seller on Gunbroker reccomended the 22.5 load, I cross referenced it and then worked up to 22.5

Do you think that even though the velocity is say, 2000-2100 fps that they will still penetrate car doors and cinder blocks? I use these because they seem to be the most common reference. I would think any soft target hit by these would take a womping.

steve4102
March 30, 2010, 06:13 PM
That AA data is new to me. Here is what they have on their web site, 25.5gr max.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/308Cal(7.82mm)/7%2062%2039mm%20Pages%20284%20and%20285.pdf

Mikee Loxxer
March 30, 2010, 06:38 PM
28 grains of AA1680 with a 123 grain bullet is certainly over the maximum. I would get a couple of load books to consult.

ScratchnDent
March 30, 2010, 07:05 PM
Do you think that even though the velocity is say, 2000-2100 fps that they will still penetrate car doors and cinder blocks?

I would certainly think so.

I can tell you that I've fired Wolf's 154 gr. soft point x39 ammo at empty propane tanks, and it zipped right through them at 50 and 100 yards. I would think that the FMJs would penetrate at least as well.

Marlin 45 carbine
March 30, 2010, 08:03 PM
I load that one. 26grs is max for the 123gr-125gr slugs. VMax will turn a watermelon inside out at that load. unfortunately seems no longer available from Graf's so hoard those slugs.
I too have had good results with the 147gr fmj from the .308.
I assure it will bust through car doors, metal and such I shot through a washing machine layed down end to end at 50' loaded over 23grs 1680. that is a compressed load so be careful.

R.W.Dale
March 30, 2010, 09:25 PM
Iirc don't quote me on this as I don't have this manual any more but Speer #12 also had 28g aa1680 loads.

28.0 was my go to 125g bolt gun load. But 26 was all the brass could handle through an autoloader. 28g is a stout load but IMO not one that's gonna blow your face off, in fact some steel cased factory loads would still beat 28g in the fps dpt

clone
March 30, 2010, 10:12 PM
I have the same data from Accurate that frankge has.

But I also have manuals that start at 23gr, so that's where I started and worked up.

frankge
March 30, 2010, 10:23 PM
thats interesting, quite the difference. Is it because powder manufacturers are getting more conservative. I got this load direct from the ballitician at accurate via email less than a year ago. I've shot at least 50 or so and none had signs of over pressure. But they were definately stout.

Another thought, Accurate does not make its powders, just resells them. Did the supply of 1680 change recently? I'll email him an post back to this thread.

I know AA1680 was developed "for" the 7.62x39 round, has anyone worked with Alliant RL-7? I just bought a pound to experiment with.

clone
March 31, 2010, 02:00 AM
The data I received from Accurate is only about a month or two old so I would say it is still valid. It is likely perfectly fine/safe data but at the high end it will probably shorten the case life a great deal.

Afy
March 31, 2010, 03:55 AM
I use 27.1 grains of VV N120 under a 123 grain fmj from Privi. Accurate and clean.

Remo-99
March 31, 2010, 08:36 AM
Do you think that even though the velocity is say, 2000-2100 fps that they will still penetrate car doors and cinder blocks?

The steel cored stuff, even at modest 7.62x39mm velocities, penetrates through one side door and out the other side door. Also it goes through the side fender and inner guard and penetrates into a cast iron engine block, although it's just the steel core that makes it that far, as the jacket peels off usally on contact with something hard.
I was supprised to see it myself when we used to shoot up junker vehicles for training senarios. This was using mil-surp chinese made steel core 123/124gr bullets, but I think the heavier 147gr bullets even at a slower velocity should have a similar effect. imo.

The mil-surp steel cores also pierce through half inch mild steel plate at 50 yards.

Afy
March 31, 2010, 09:06 AM
Zack's article (http://demigodllc.com/articles/7.62x39-improving-the-military-standard/) on the caliber is good reading as well.

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