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cvo
March 30, 2010, 09:57 PM
I've been reloading rifle for a long time, but this is my first attempt at pistol.


This is once fired Federal .45 brass with a Hornady 230 grain XTP bullet. I can see the expansion from the bullet in the case, is this normal?


http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL488/1126801/22202544/385030849.jpg

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Lee Roder
March 30, 2010, 10:01 PM
that means you have tension. if it chambers it's good

ScratchnDent
March 30, 2010, 10:02 PM
That's normal.

Randy1911
March 30, 2010, 10:11 PM
The sizing die will normally under size the case to give good neck tension. When you seat the bullet it will expand the case back out to normal. Shoot away.

cvo
March 30, 2010, 10:11 PM
Thanks.

cvo
March 30, 2010, 10:21 PM
BTW, should the necks be crimped?

Black_Talon
March 30, 2010, 10:56 PM
Taper crimped only, as the 45ACP headspaces (sort of) on the mouth. I crimp to .470" diameter.

cvo
March 30, 2010, 11:15 PM
They measure .471 now without a crimp. The ID of the case was .448 before pressing the .451 bullet in.

The Bushmaster
March 30, 2010, 11:20 PM
Crimp to only remove the bell. If you want the tolerences. They are .469" to .472". No more/no less. Use your barrel to insure they will chamber. It is probably the best (and cheapest) chamber gauge around...

Your photo shows a normal round...Randy1911 explained it very well (short and to the point)...

Walkalong
March 30, 2010, 11:22 PM
Measure a little below (say 1/8") the case mouth and then at the case mouth. The case mouth should be at or slightly below (.001 to .002) what it measures 1/8" down from the case mouth.

918v
March 31, 2010, 01:51 AM
I eyball it. If the flare is gone and there a slight curvature to the casemouth, it's good.

jeepmor
March 31, 2010, 03:11 AM
Taper crimped only, as the 45ACP headspaces (sort of) on the mouth.

They absolutely headspace on the casemouth, not sort of. If I'm wrong, please explain where else. I do suppose the ejector controls the position to some degree also.

BTW - that is a very normal looking round. I have lots of them from my Hornady product purchase and all my rounds look like that when they are done.

918v
March 31, 2010, 03:31 AM
Some people think they headspace off the extractor, but they aren't considering the clearance between the extractor hook and the rim far exceeds the clearance between the case mouth and the end of the chamber body. The case mouth will always hit the end of the chamber body before the rim hits the edge of the extractor hook unless the case is too short or the chamber is cut too deep or both. If the gun is correctly assembled, the round will headspace off the case mouth.

joneb
March 31, 2010, 04:50 AM
cvo, what is the OAL of that round ? It looks a bit long :scrutiny: it could just be it's a XTP/HP. Does it pass the chamber test?
Use your barrel to insure they will chamber. It is probably the best (and cheapest) chamber gauge around...

I agree,
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=91243&d=1232308690

cvo
March 31, 2010, 08:15 AM
Good eye, yes it is a little long 1.260.

bullseye308
March 31, 2010, 08:52 AM
Nothing I can add here but wow, the speed and quality of the help here is astounding!:what:

The Bushmaster
March 31, 2010, 10:58 AM
jibjab...I still think the managment should make that a "Sticky"....Then I wouldn't have to keep asking Walkalong for a copy of it everytime I lose it...:D

918v
March 31, 2010, 12:55 PM
Good eye, yes it is a little long 1.260.
Does it fit in your mag? Does it chamber easily?

medalguy
March 31, 2010, 01:02 PM
If the bulge bothers you, try a Lee CARBIDE FCD. The carbide ring will remove the bulge as you run the round through the die. It just resizes the side and base of the round. I use that for my 38 Special ammo, looks a little bit better IMO.

rcmodel
March 31, 2010, 01:04 PM
If it removed the bulge on the .45 ACP round in the picture?
It would also squish the bullet base undersize for the bore.

Not a good idea to do that!

rc

918v
March 31, 2010, 01:29 PM
If it removed the bulge on the .45 ACP round in the picture?
It would also squish the bullet base undersize for the bore.

Not a good idea to do that!

rc
and would also lower case tension on the bullet contributing to setback upon chambering.

cvo
March 31, 2010, 02:06 PM
The 1.260 rounds fit the mag of my SA 911 and chambered, but they were a little shorter after cambering Two times.

bds
March 31, 2010, 02:29 PM
If your OAL length decreased after chambering from magazine two times, you may not have enough neck tension (bullet seated deeper when pushed against the ramp by the slide).

I check neck tension on my loaded rounds by pushing as hard as I can on the bullet against the bench with my thumb/fingers. If the bullet moves, you don't have enough neck tension.

rcmodel
March 31, 2010, 02:36 PM
This is the guy with the bulged bullet base on his case in the first post.
No way he has loose neck tension, and no way he can push the bullet deeper by hand.

Obvously a feed problem with his gun.
A shorter OAL my help as his is seated longer then normal now.

Seating deeper will provide more bullet shank inside the case for increased neck tension.
They may also feed better at a shorter length and not whack into the feed ramp before they get a chance to change angles out of the magazine.

rc

bds
March 31, 2010, 02:39 PM
chambered, but they were a little shorter after cambering Two times.

Was this a typo? "cambering" I read it as chambering two times.

So, I wonder what would cause the the OAL to be shorter after chambering two times then?

918v
March 31, 2010, 02:44 PM
The 1.260 rounds fit the mag of my SA 911 and chambered, but they were a little shorter after cambering Two times.
Take the barrel out. Drop the round in the barrel. If the back of the case portrudes past the barrel hood, the OAL is too long. Reduce the OAL until the back of the case sits flush with the end of the barrel hood.

rcmodel
March 31, 2010, 02:45 PM
what would cause the the OAL to be shorter after chambering two times then?
What I said in post #24.

I think seating shorter will increase neck tension and may feed better without beating them into the feed ramp.

The point I was trying to make is, the bullets are already bulging out the sides of the cases, so he already has all the neck tension possible at that seating depth.
The only way to increase it now is to put more bullet shank inside the case to provide more surface area / friction with the case wall.

rc

bds
March 31, 2010, 03:03 PM
rcmodel, I think we are on the same page, but talking about different things.

This is the guy with the bulged bullet base on his case in the first post.
He didn't say bulged base, just expansion of brass below the bullet.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL488/1126801/22202544/385030849.jpg

Originally Posted by rcmodel
If it removed the bulge on the .45 ACP round in the picture?
It would also squish the bullet base undersize for the bore.

and would also lower case tension on the bullet contributing to setback upon chambering.

The 1.260 rounds fit the mag of my SA 911 and chambered, but they were a little shorter after cambering Two times.

I took that he chambered twice "without firing" and OAL length decreased, thus my comment for bullet being seated deeper into the case from the slide pushing the bullet deeper against the ramp/chamber during chambering. If the bullet moved in the case neck, then he doesn't have enough neck tension to hold the bullet.

I wasn't commenting on if he "fired twice" and OAL length decreased.

Sorry for the confusion. Maybe OP/cvo can explain whether he just chambered twice without firing.

joneb
March 31, 2010, 03:51 PM
Tell Me Whats Wrong
The round looks fine to me with the exception of the COL. I'm pretty sure it would be to long for my Colt 70 ser. chamber, and if I let the slide chamber that round the slide would not go into battery and/or the bullet would get set deeper in the case.
jibjab...I still think the managment should make that a "Sticky"....Then I wouldn't have to keep asking Walkalong for a copy of it everytime I lose it...
I have it bookmarked from THR and TFL and I always have trouble finding the darn thing.
If the bulge bothers you, try a Lee CARBIDE FCD.
:what: That's how I know what grain bullet is in there :)

cvo
March 31, 2010, 03:54 PM
I chambered it twice without firing and I lost a small amount of OAL, from 1.260 to 1.251.

Previous I also stated that I hadn't neck crimped the rounds.

Skip_a_roo
March 31, 2010, 07:21 PM
If your bullet moves after chambering, you need to use a taper crimp on it. Your bullet is too long. After chambering, look at the front of the driving band. Does it have any marks on it? Take the barrel out of the firearm, drop a loaded round in the chamber. It should seat without being pushed in. If you have to push it to have the case head flush with the chamber end of the barrel, your OAL is too long.

If it were me, I would use an OAL that only left about 1/32" of the straight part of the bullet exposed. That may mean that the OAL is in the 1.200" range. If so, check your recipe to see what the minimum OAL is for that bullet and powder. Makes a big difference.

Hope this helps.

bds
March 31, 2010, 11:11 PM
I think seating shorter will increase neck tension and may feed better without beating them into the feed ramp.

The point I was trying to make is, the bullets are already bulging out the sides of the cases, so he already has all the neck tension possible at that seating depth.

The only way to increase it now is to put more bullet shank inside the case to provide more surface area / friction with the case wall.
Yes, I agree.


I chambered it twice without firing and I lost a small amount of OAL, from 1.260 to 1.251.

cvo, is the OAL decreasing when you hand chamber the round because the front of the bullet is hitting the chamber/rifling/ramp of the barrel? Can you see any mark or deformation on the nose of the bullet?

cvo
April 1, 2010, 08:26 AM
I am going to set the rounds at 1.230 like recommended in the Hornady manual and crimp them. The round I pictured had no primer or powder in it.

joneb
April 1, 2010, 12:32 PM
Crimp to only remove the bell. If you want the tolerences. They are .469" to .472". No more/no less.
Measure a little below (say 1/8") the case mouth and then at the case mouth. The case mouth should be at or slightly below (.001 to .002) what it measures 1/8" down from the case mouth.
Do have any factory ammo ? See what they did.
Does it pass the chamber test? Well does it?

1SOW
April 2, 2010, 01:46 AM
:uhoh:He may have been referring to that "long" round.

If you chamber it and it's a little long the slide will hammer it in a 'little'.:D

cvo
April 2, 2010, 09:10 AM
Yes the long round (1.260) does chamber, but with a little drag. But the 1.230 is like butter when chambering, so I will start out with this OAL.

BTW, the Hornady book calls for this OAL with the particular bullet and powder.

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