AR 57 pistol pdw


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rustcat
March 30, 2010, 11:47 PM
How possible is it to make an 11" or 6.5" AR 5.7x28 pistol without the buffer tube like on the sig556 pistol

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Mags
March 31, 2010, 12:19 AM
You can't have an AR anything without a buffer tube, there has to be somewhere for the BCG to go.

mrnkc130
March 31, 2010, 01:20 AM
except for this https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=415

but i think its just in .556

Mags
March 31, 2010, 01:23 AM
Sorry pal that is not an AR. That type of rifle linked is like the next gen stuff coming from FN, Bushy (ACR), Rob ARMS and Para. You wouldn't call an XCR or a SCAR an AR15 would ya?

mrnkc130
March 31, 2010, 01:48 AM
and an AR57 is an AR in the traditional sense?

NG VI
March 31, 2010, 02:31 AM
Gotta say, I'm not a big fan of the typical telescoping AR carbine stock, but I do like that PPS or whatever it's called. I like the lack of attention given to a railed forend, or more importantly, the decision to go with a very well thought out forend that doesn't include any rails that I personally don't have any use for.

Because after all, my preferences matter more than anyone elses in the world.

To me.

Mags
March 31, 2010, 04:21 AM
and an AR57 is an AR in the traditional sense? I don't know. Does the AR57 upper use the buffer and spring to cycle the bolt? If so then it still operates on the same principle of an AR 15.

mrnkc130
March 31, 2010, 05:09 AM
I don't know. Does the AR57 upper use the buffer and spring to cycle the bolt? If so then it still operates on the same principle of an AR 15

ok now we all know what qaulifies a rifle as an AR, they have to cycle the BCG into the stock... Here I thought it was a versatile platform that had dozens of variations...DI, GP, belt fed, blowback in pistol caliber, FN style like the 57 would all qaulify because they use a buffer and a spring...but a rock river PPS doesnt..ok gotcha...:rolleyes:

Mags
March 31, 2010, 12:21 PM
Well I figured it was DI I figured from my post you would have noticed my unfamiliarity with the AR57 uppers; for it to be considered an AR it must use the AR action,(Deleted <Sam>). But the RRA is not an AR15 is the Rob ARMS XCR an AR? For the OPs question if the 57 upper has the bolt cycle into the buffer tube then he cannot use it as he wishes.

Mem4720
March 31, 2010, 07:47 PM
Umm, why not just buy the Five Seven pistol? Mine runs flawlessly, and with 30rd mag is still much smaller, lighter, and easier to shoot than the AR pistol.

crushbup
March 31, 2010, 08:08 PM
for it to be considered an AR it must use the AR action,

I disagree. The lower receiver is the firearm, and the RRA uses the AR15 lower. Therefore it is an AR15 with a nonstandard action. The XCR does not use an AR15 lower or upper for that matter, so it really can't be brought into this conversation.

Girodin
April 1, 2010, 02:54 AM
This is the first time I have ever heard someone suggest that a piston AR is not an AR. I guess they need to come up with a new name for them.

mrnkc130
April 1, 2010, 04:17 AM
looks like the ar57 would need a buffer tube. if you want a FN 5.7 have you looked into an SBR PS-90? pricey, but might fit the bill.

Strahley
April 1, 2010, 10:22 AM
You'd need a piston operating system instead of D.I.

Mags
April 1, 2010, 11:21 AM
You'd need a piston operating system instead of D.I. What?
This is the first time I have ever heard someone suggest that a piston AR is not an AR. I guess they need to come up with a new name for them. Look, in my opinion an AR is based on the action it was designed on, unless you can prove otherwise my opinion will remain the same because it is your opinion that those other rifles are ARs. There is no definintive answer only opinion at this time. I think if this post should be continued in the rifle forum if anyone else wants to add to it regarding the definition of AR rifles.

(Deleted non-THR bitterness -- <Sam>) Hey I am willing to change my opinion if there is some facts out there but you guys seem like "if it is evil and black it is an AR".

Strahley
April 1, 2010, 11:25 AM
What?

He wants an "AR pistol" without a buffer tube. To do this, he'd need to use a piston design (like the SIG 556 pistol) to do it

Mags
April 1, 2010, 11:27 AM
From Wikipedia:Some notable features of the AR-15 include:

Aircraft grade aluminium receiver
Modular design allows for a variety of accessories and makes repair easier
Small caliber, accurate, high velocity round
Synthetic stock and grips do not warp or splinter
Front sight adjustable for elevation
Rear sight adjustable for windage and elevation
Wide array of optical devices available in addition to or as replacements of iron sights
A direct impingement gas system
Synthetic pistol grip (regulated in some jurisdictions) More from Wikipedia:The mechanism of operation for the rifle is known as direct gas impingement. Gas is tapped from the barrel as the bullet moves past a gas port located above the rifle's front sight base. The gas rushes into the port and down a gas tube, located above the barrel, which runs from the front sight base into the AR-15's upper receiver. Here, the gas tube protrudes into a “gas key” (bolt carrier key) which accepts the gas and funnels it into the bolt carrier. The bolt and bolt carrier together form a piston, which is caused to expand as the cavity in the bolt carrier fills with high pressure gas. The bolt is locked into the barrel extension, so this expansion forces the bolt carrier backward in line with the stock of the rifle. As the bolt carrier moves toward the butt of the gun, the bolt cam pin, riding in a slot on the bolt carrier, forces the bolt to turn and unlock from the barrel extension. Once the bolt is fully unlocked it begins its rearward movement along with the bolt carrier. The bolt's rearward motion extracts the empty cartridge case from the chamber, and as soon as the neck of the case clears the barrel extension, the bolt's spring-loaded ejector forces it out the ejection port in the side of the upper receiver.
Behind the bolt carrier is a plastic or metal buffer which rests in line with a return spring that pushes the bolt carrier back toward the chamber. A groove machined into the upper receiver traps the cam pin and prevents it and the bolt from rotating into a closed position. The bolt's locking lugs then push a fresh round from the magazine which is guided by feed ramps into the chamber. As the bolt's locking lugs move past the barrel extension, the cam pin is allowed to twist into a pocket milled into the upper receiver. This twisting action follows the groove cut into the carrier and forces the bolt to twist and “lock” into the barrel’s unique extension.

Mags
April 1, 2010, 11:29 AM
I see Strahley, I thought you were saying an AR converted to a gas piston did not require a buffer tube, but yes designs like the Sig do not need buffers.

Strahley
April 1, 2010, 11:31 AM
Exactly :) It would be a fairly expensive gun to craft, but anything can be done with enough $$$

Sam1911
April 1, 2010, 01:07 PM
Let's do play nicely with one another. This is not a debate important enough to get bitter over.

Thanks, and carry on...

Zerodefect
April 1, 2010, 07:14 PM
Uh, when all is said and done, you could have just bought a flattop FN PS90.
It really is a nice little rifle. Really about as small as a pistol AR.

mrnkc130
April 6, 2010, 02:53 AM
Look, in my opinion an AR is based on the action it was designed on, unless you can prove otherwise my opinion will remain the same because it is your opinion that those other rifles are ARs. There is no definintive answer only opinion at this time. I think if this post should be continued in the rifle forum if anyone else wants to add to it regarding the definition of AR rifles.


If it fits on a milspec AR lower than its an "AR"

if we go by what Wikipedia defines as an AR then GP ar-15's are not "AR's", anything with out windage adjustment is not and AR, one the fires 7.62x39 is not an ar, pistol round carbines are not ar's, an AR-15 that has had furniture replaced with wood furniture is not an AR...see where that is going?

Bovice
April 6, 2010, 03:04 AM
This post is not about what is or is not an AR-15 style rifle.

There IS a AR57 pistol upper. Looks cool. Get one if you want one.

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop2/images/57pistolupper.jpg

Quiet
April 6, 2010, 10:08 AM
The AR57 upper operates via blowback.

If you take a M16/AR15 30 round magazine, remove the follower & magazine spring and cut off the feed lips, you can then use it as a brass catcher for the AR57.
The AR57 ejects empties downward through the standard AR magazine well and a M16/AR15 30 round magazine will hold 50 rounds of 5.7x28mm empties.

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