[giese]

Is there a chart that shows various ranges of ballistic info. for handguns? Being a newbie it is tough for me to pull out numbers to answer peoples questions. Such as informing folks that the 9mm is not the most powerful gun in the world from listening to rap music, or convincing my uncle that I really need to buy a 44 mag and not just borrow his 45 acp for backcountry in Alaska. Good info would include grain sizes ranges, muzzle velocity ranges, energy ranges. I understand that handloading makes much more possiable than what can be shown in a chart but lets think basics, no matter how mundane it maybe. If a source does not exist perhaps it could be easily created by the knowledge on THR and put on the web.

[mete]

"powerfull" ? there are lots of sources for ballistic info ,velocity and energy. The problem is that energy never killed anything. What has to be done in self defense or hunting is to penetrate into the vital organs and do damage there. Many variables ; velocity ,weight,diameter ,bullet construction. Energy is not one of them nor is the myth of 'expending all the energy in the target' . Above all is the most important - bullet placement.

[Sunray]

"...I really need to buy a 44 mag..." Who's buying it, you or him? Have you ever fired a .44 Mag? It's not hard to shoot but it does take practice the same as any other firearm. Then go here.
http://www.remington.com/AMMO/ballistics.htm

[giese]

Well these are not answers to my question. I just want a general info. page, that is basic and all infront of me so I dont have to piece it together, if it does not exist, no problem. This is to inform me so I can inform others, an example might say "357 mag, typical grain size xxx-xxx typical velocity xxx-xxxx, typical energy at 10yds xxx, at 30 yds xxx".

Mete- I agree with shoot placement, but still dont plan on using 38 in bear country, even if I am an excellent shot

Sunray- Uncle seems to think I can save money by taking his 45, and not buying 44, I want excuse to buy 44 as well as feeling better about stopping power for Mr. Griz.

End goal is to make a better educated public about firearms, myself included, that is why I get on this forum and read.

[Black Snowman]

I created a spreadsheet for my own reference with muzzle energies and momentum (expressed in "power factor") here. (http://home.kc.rr.com/bsmith1952/img/Guns/Muzzle_energy_comparison.xls)

It's not complete and I can't guarentee accuracy. It's also based on reloading max loads so may not show data of what the round is typically loaded for, just it's potential. I found it interesting and vuagely useful.

As a general rule muzzle energy is a good measure of how "powerful" a cartridge is. Given two similar muzzle energies the one with greater momentum will give you better penetration.

Hope that helps.

[Atticus]

You might do well to pick up a copy of the Guns and Ammo Annual. There is a ballistics section in the back. Will also make good "reading room" material for years to come.

[Majic]

Why must you have uncle's blessing on how you spend your money?

You do need to realize that you are talking about a powerful cartridge that a newbie will have alot of trouble with. It is not a learning platform. You will be better served with a pepper spray till you learn to shoot and master the recoil of magnum big bores.

The sheet you are requesting will not be as simple as you think. For every cartridge the velocity and energy figures will change with each bullet weight change. Also the numbers will change with different barrel lengths used to generate them. You may get way over your head trying to use something like that as there will most likely be 3 bullet weights and resulting figures for each cartridge fired thru sometimes unknown barrel lengths. Even different ammo makers have different figures for similar cartridges as bullet design affects velocity. Then you will run into standard pressure loads and +P loads (or even +P+ loads) for certain cartridges.
Be prepared to be looking at alot of numbers that can be confusing at first.

[BluesBear]

Welcome Aboard Giese. Its good to have you with us.


I agree with Atticus about the G&A Annual. Same goes for Shooters Bible and Gun Digest.

Also many gunshops have the free Remington, Winchester, Federal, CCI/Speer catalogs to give away. If not an e'mail of a phone call will usually get you a free one in the snail mail.

Cor-Bon will also send you a free one too.


And don't worry about the recoil and blast from a .44 Magnum.
That's one of the reasons why they sell .44 Special ammo.

[Black Snowman]

Kamicosmos might beg to differ, the 1st handgun he bought was a .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk and I can attest he handled it quite well even in the early days. It depends on your mentality and preferance in guns. I like big booms, big flashes, and a some movement when the guns go off.

If you buy one used you're not likely to lose money on it if you decided you don't like it. Or if you don't feel ready for it after you've shot it some you can hang on to it, get something else, and come back to it when you're more comfortable.

If you're wanting to defend yourself against bear while hiking and a rifle is too much weight and bulk to bother with I think a 44 mag is just about the smallest gun I'd trust.

YMMV, good luck in your decision making process :)

[BluesBear]

I think this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51681) pretty much takes care of it.

[giese]

That is a nice chart thanks!!!!

I dont need my uncles approval, I am just trying to convince him that a 45 auto is not the right animal to pull the cart. He knows less than I do, unless remington makes an 1170 shotgun, he says he has one........ maybe he is right?

I read about and talk to oldtimers who say pappy got um a 44 as their first gun, though I bet they were tougher than I am, I dont think they are that much tougher.

Not to worry though, I do shoot with a few smaller caliber revolvers, and will sample the 44's before spending my cash.

Also thanks for the welcome, I enjoy these posts from like minded folks.

[Majic]

Remington makes a 11-87, but never made a 1170.

[BluesBear]

Remington makes or has made the;
Model 11
Model 1100
Model 11-48
Model 11-87
Model 11-96
These are all semi-automatic shotguns.

That do make the 870 slide-action shotgun.

But there has never been, to my knowlege, an 1170.

[giese]

My point has been made, I did not think there was an 1170, it would not be so bad if he had not been so serious telling me that I was wrong when I said he might be confusing the 11-87, 1100 and 870. Oh well this guys likes to exagerate a bit, I knock 50% of fof all stories he tells me, they are real stretchers.

I own an 11-87 so I thought he was confused.

Thanks for the info.

Cant wait to buy my 44 and I have started a list of about 5 handguns more I think I should have also.