Plastic AR-15 Magazines


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Ben86
March 31, 2010, 06:00 PM
How good are plastic AR mags? More specifically how do they compare to metal ones?

I've been considering these: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=577337

I hear that magpul is pretty good, but that is just the gun rags talking. :rolleyes:

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Quentin
March 31, 2010, 06:06 PM
PMAGs are excellent, and often are used by military and police. Only negative I've heard is rarely they can stick in tight magwells, which can be corrected by filing a little in the right spot on the mag. Mine don't stick in my S&W lower. I like them as well as USGI aluminum mags, maybe better because of the improved mag follower.

glock36
March 31, 2010, 06:13 PM
PMAG's are top shelf items, been a few videos on u-tube demonstrating the abuse they will take and like a timex it just kept asking for more without fail

happygeek
March 31, 2010, 06:16 PM
Pmags are also cheap. They're selling them at the gun store here for $13 without the window and $15 with. With the window you can see the orange marked spring. When the orange spring is near the top of the window you know you've got less than 10 rounds left (I could be wrong on the exact number of rounds).

Lots of troops buy or otherwise manage to get their hands on Pmags to use instead of the cheap STANAG mags. I like them and with STANAGs selling for $10 or more around here the Pmags aren't a bad deal either. Only downside is that they're thicker than STANAGs and don't fit in the mag pouches as well.

RyanM
March 31, 2010, 06:16 PM
PMAGs are great. The other brands, I dunno. But Pmags are definitely more durable and easier to spot damage, compared to aluminum.

The new ones definitely will stick in a tight magwell, though. I had to sand mine pretty heavily to make them drop free from my CMMG, while the 1st gen PMAGs were fine.

halfded
March 31, 2010, 06:35 PM
Magpul makes a great line of products!

tju1973
March 31, 2010, 06:41 PM
I bought some 20 round "Master Molder?" mags for mine-- while they work well enough, they feel squishy at the top, and long term, I don't trust that they will last...YMMV though

gondorian
March 31, 2010, 06:54 PM
When I first held one I thought it was flimsy because it is light, but after knocking one around for a bit I find them very durable

Walkalong
March 31, 2010, 07:18 PM
They work great. I really like mine.

giggitygiggity
March 31, 2010, 07:18 PM
I got a lot of 10 magazines from bravocompanyusa.com. They are teflon coated USGI mags. Flawless in operation. I think the price was 10/$110 or so. If I were to do it again, I would stick with the USGI mags. I have not had any problem with them and they are cheaper.

dbshabo
March 31, 2010, 07:34 PM
I just ordered a few Magpul PMags to check them out. I'm impressed and will be buying more soon. I bought a couple 20 rounders and a couple 30 rounders with the clear window. All worked flawlessly in my LWRC rifle.

I like the fact that you can fully load a mag and put the protective cover on and the mag body has a little extra space so the rounds are pushed down far enought that they don't exert upward pressure on the feed lips. If the torture test videos are for real (which I believe they are) you'd have to try pretty hard to damage these mags.

Shabo

basicblur
March 31, 2010, 08:07 PM
PMAGs seem to work fine with both my Colt and RRA ARs.
I've got some Orlites from waaaaaay back-just got around to trying PMAGs since I already had plastic-wanted to stock up on metal first.

PMAGS are longer than metal mags-you can insert a full 30-rds on a closed bolt due to extra mag length (can be iffy with a USGI mag). Most folks recommend downloading USGI mags by a round or two-I have replaced all the followers on my USGI mags (D&H black Teflon) with GEN III MagPul followers. I can store 18 USGI mags in the same space as 15 PMAGS (stacked or side by side).

As others have stated, they're great for long-term storage loaded by using the mag clip to relieve pressure on the feed lips.

FWIW-I got my last 30-rd PMAGs from Shooters Connection for $11.99/each (no window, 10-pack) but you have to pay shipping (he's fast, and shipping is reasonable). Got my last 30-rd D&H black Teflon from 44mag.com for $8.49/each, but had to install MagPul Gen III followers, which added 'bout $2 each. I know Bravo company sells the same thing with the followers already installed, but they have their own stamp on the baseplate-44mag.com also has free shipping on $200 orders.

Iff'n you do get PMAGS, make sure they're the latest generation "M".

A couple of PDFs you might want to download?
PMAG Tech Note- Usage (http://store.magpul.com/downloads/PMAG_Tech_Note-Usage.pdf)
PMAG Product Guide- BETA (http://store.magpul.com/downloads/PMAG%20-%20Product%20Guide%20090430_BETA.pdf)
Page with all the PMAG videos (http://store.magpul.com/product/1/3) you've seen on the 'Net?
(Look on the Related Info tab right side of product pix)

E304life
March 31, 2010, 08:28 PM
I've seen pictures of PMAGS breaking when dropped from some height ( i don't remember how high) when they are fully loaded. Does anyone have info on this? I'm believe pmags are great, and maybe better than metal mags, I just want to point out a potential weakness. Not a big deal.

Wahoo95
March 31, 2010, 08:43 PM
I've never seen nor heard of a PMAg breaking

briansmithwins
March 31, 2010, 08:47 PM
What I've seen at our local rifle matches is that since most of the shooters have switched to Pmags the number of malfunctioning ARs has dropped dramatically. The occasional FTFe is now rare enough that it's abnormal and remarked upon.

With Pmags AR shooters can get mags that are almost as tough as AK mags. BSW

cyclopsshooter
March 31, 2010, 08:57 PM
p-mags are about as perfect as mags get

Al LaVodka
March 31, 2010, 09:02 PM
I have Orlites (Israeli) and some Thermolds (Canadian). Neither work in my non-Colt's (maybe someone'll explain why) though fine in Colt's and have a GREAT reputation. Aluminum surplus work just fine in all. Well, except maybe Guns-R-Us' "5th Generation Mags"...

After paying a premium for sticky followers, not responding to returns for months, and lieing about replacing the bad ones (I secretly marked them) at least they feed, however, they had to explain to me that AR mags are not supposed to drop free! These don't consistently if at all and you can clearly see the lines where the pressed metal flares wide.

Al

RyanM
March 31, 2010, 09:05 PM
I've seen pictures of PMAGS breaking when dropped from some height ( i don't remember how high) when they are fully loaded. Does anyone have info on this? I'm believe pmags are great, and maybe better than metal mags, I just want to point out a potential weakness. Not a big deal.

I'm betting an aluminum mag would also break under the same conditions. So definitely not a big deal.

Guns and more
March 31, 2010, 09:10 PM
Go to "YouTube" and search P-Mags.
Watch the torture test and then decide. They drive over them with a pickup truck.
Then they park a pickup on top of one, spin the tires until the mag flies out, and it still works.
I have a bunch and I like them.

Maverick223
March 31, 2010, 09:19 PM
The only magazine that I prefer over a Magpul PMag is the Lancer magazines, but they are a good bit higher so I only use them for HD magazines. The great feature about Lacer mags is the ability to stay loaded without a cover (I leave my magazine in the rifle, with bolt locked to the rear for quick operation (this would be hard on PMags). I use PMags and USGI for everything else, and they perform admirably, especially for the price. I also like the fact that they are available in 20rnd configuration which I vastly prefer over 30s. WRT other plastic magazines, I have found the Thermold magazines are alright, but stay away from ProMags. No experience with the Tapco mags, but I doubt I will try them since Lancer and Magpul makes everything that I need.

:)

DougW
March 31, 2010, 09:19 PM
PMags are the best!

HGUNHNTR
March 31, 2010, 09:25 PM
I really like my PMags, my aluminum GI mags probably don't get much range time.

sig228
April 1, 2010, 12:17 AM
Ben, seriously, have you been living under a rock for the last few years? ;)

Bartholomew Roberts
April 1, 2010, 12:21 AM
The great thing about PMAGs is that they DO break. If the magazine is stressed past the limits of the polymer to return to its original shape, it will crack and you have a nice visible indicator that the mag is out-of-spec (although it may continue to feed fine).

The problem with the old USGI aluminium mag bodies is that they lack the memory of polymer. Instead of breaking, they just dent or bend slightly and often in a way that is difficult to detect. If the feed lips on a USGI magazine are out of spec, you may not know it until it starts spitting rounds two and three at a time into your upper receiver or the follower binds.

Maverick223
April 1, 2010, 12:57 AM
The great thing about PMAGs is that they DO break.Never really thought of it that way, but I have to concur. It is better to know when it is broken than to have to search and waste ammo (which can easily cost more than a new mag.) trying to diagnose the problem.

:)

Hatterasguy
April 1, 2010, 01:01 AM
Pmags are all I use, I sold everything else. I have never had a mag issue running them, and I have never seen my friends guns have issues running them. So in my experiance 100% reliable over many thousands of rounds.


IMHO any other AR mag is a waste.

Ben86
April 1, 2010, 01:09 AM
Ben, seriously, have you been living under a rock for the last few years?

No, but I did just buy an AR a few weeks ago.

I'm glad to hear they live up to the reputation, I'll have to get some.

Welding Rod
April 1, 2010, 01:15 AM
I bought plenty of NHMTG, my favorite, just to be sure I have good working mags many years from now.

However I have been really impressed with PMAGs, and use them mostly. Just not convinced the plastic will not embrittle over time and have difficulties before my life time is up.

sig228
April 1, 2010, 01:42 AM
No, but I did just buy an AR a few weeks ago.

Let me repeat my question.....

Just kidding :neener:, welcome to the club.

Maverick223
April 1, 2010, 01:55 AM
Just not convinced the plastic will not embrittle over time and have difficulties before my life time is up.I too like the NHMTG mags, but honestly doubt that they will outlast the PMAGs; the new polymers generally perform really well unless they are subjected to atypical amounts of UV radiation (IOW you probably shouldn't store them on your dashboard).

:)

mrnkc130
April 1, 2010, 02:37 AM
As others have said Pmags are great, I wish i could remember the brand but i purchased another poly mag from cheaper than dirt and they were complete crap. i wouldnt worry about pmags but others i would watch out for personally

Wahoo95
April 1, 2010, 08:23 AM
Any new AR owners should spend some time over at reading and researching over at M4Carbine.net for all the info you could ever want to know about the rifles as far as what's good and what's not.

kwelz
April 1, 2010, 09:00 AM
First off I will second what Wahoo95 said. Read over the threads at M4C.net. Lots of good experience there.

Secondly, there is a torture test out there where a PMag was shot and still functioned, although it could only be loaded up to 20 rounds or so.

Boba Fett
April 1, 2010, 09:41 AM
Another vote for the PMAG. Great mags. I do have some regular AR mags, but the bulk are PMAGs.


Youtube vids that pretty much convinced me to try the PMAG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCFXcOOb4jc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAUFHEJFf-E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdesKUSUchA

Patriotme
April 1, 2010, 09:42 AM
I've seen pictures of PMAGS breaking when dropped from some height ( i don't remember how high) when they are fully loaded. Does anyone have info on this? I'm believe pmags are great, and maybe better than metal mags, I just want to point out a potential weakness. Not a big deal.
I've seen those vids too. I think they were on YouTube. The video I saw had a fully loaded rifle dropped from about 5 or 6 feet onto the magazine. The Pmag broke. Of course every mag in the test broke. I think someone did another test at -20 degrees and the Pmag broke when dropped.
I don't really consider these tests realistic for my uses and I have a bunch of Pmags. They are great magazines.
BTW, there is another YouTube vid in which someone shot a hole through the side of a Pmag and the spring sticks out of the side. The mag still works.

Tirod
April 1, 2010, 09:44 AM
The metal throw away design of aluminum M16 magazines has been a problem area since it's introduction. And since most stoppages are directly related to bad feeding, in tactical competition, few depend on them. In combat, even more so, since the introduction of the Pmags.

It didn't help to expand the capacity to thirty rounds as the straight mag well design can't accomodate the curve required to stack them. 30 rounders are not optimally designed and have that problem added as a potential malfunction. The mags use a spiral wound spring with the feed pressures at marginally acceptable levels that really do cause excessive friction when loaded fully.

Many shooters work through a pile of metal magazines sorting out the bad ones and marking them. They often go straight to the next gun show for disposal. Army surplus is the same, why sell a good serviceable magazine? What leaves the inventory are regarded as junkers not fit for combat.

Many new shooters buy these and then load them up to full capacity, which binds the older followers because of inefficient design and high spring pressures. Leaving them loaded spreads the feed lips, and the mag simply won't work correctly. The uneducated naked eye can't tell one from the other. The weapon gets the blame, tho, the stupid thing really is a jammomatic like Uncle Fred said.

It's pretty easy to see how the public is taken advantage of, distorts their misunderstanding, and perpetuates a falsehood.

Since unscrupulous people can and will dump their bad magazines for profit, the best attitude in buying them is that they are all damaged and won't work unless refit and repair is planned first. Those that do that and competently repair and service them have few problems. Some even crush the ones that won't work right at all, collectible, pre-ban, AWB, or not.

Maybe we should all start treating magazines as our life depended on them, then maybe they'll work when we need them.

Pmags don't dent, have low friction internal surfaces, anti tilt followers that don't bind, won't corrode internally, and are designed to be stored with no pressure on the feed lips. They have earned their rep as a superior magazine.

ny32182
April 1, 2010, 10:27 AM
I buy a rotation of magazines that includes Pmags. They feed fine in my rifles, but do stick in AR magwells, indeed every single one that I've ever personally owned or tried them in (LMT and BCM lowers, as well as others that I have tried them in but do not own). As a result, personally I would not run them in a 3gun type competition since they don't drop free for me, if I thought most of the loading would be done from a locked open bolt. I will add that they do drop free from my XCR. Some things I like about them, some things I don't... much like many other products. I like that they have a little extra clearance in the bottom and can be inserted on a closed bolt with notably less force than that needed to do the same with a USGI mag.

The truck videos are mildly interesting, but personally I think way too much hoopla is made of them. One day I might try it myself and see what happens. There are also notable physical differences between mags produced during different timeframes (nearly every time I buy them, I can see some differences between the new batch and prior batches), and those vids are very old by now.

IMO it is a good product, but made by the hand of man like everything else. I don't want "all my eggs in one basket", so I buy USGI mags as well, and am considering some of the Troys now just to see what those are about. Also, there are rifles out there with stanag magwells that simply won't accept Pmags at all; this seems to be a consistent report with the FS2k and SCAR for instance.

WoofersInc
April 1, 2010, 11:18 AM
Another vote here for the Pmags. Since trying them out, they are all I use for my AR's. I'm just bummed that they don't work in my FS2000. For that, my stash of USGI has to do.

Maverick223
April 1, 2010, 11:43 AM
I wish i could remember the brand but i purchased another poly mag from cheaper than dirt and they were complete crap. i wouldnt worry about pmags but others i would watch out for personallyThey were probably ProMags (not to be confused with PMags). I had a few and had horrible service out of them, due to squishy feed lips. OTOH there are other polymer mags out there that work well. Lancer L5s work great (I even prefer them over PMags), and the Thermold magazines do good enough (though I prefer PMags). I'd bet that the new Tapco magazines work alright as well, but I don't have any plans to try them.

:)

ny32182
April 1, 2010, 12:55 PM
TangoDown and Troy also, in addition to Magpul, make plastic mags that I would assume are good quality unless proven otherwise. In fact I remember reading one report stating that the TangoDown mag won some sort of contest that was related to the SCAR trials, though haven't heard anything about it in a while.

mljdeckard
April 1, 2010, 01:04 PM
I'm taking ten pmags with me to Iraq.

I just broke the tie between RRA, Armalite, or DPMS AR-10 because Magpul just started making mags for the DPMS.

If Magpul makes a bad product, I haven't seen it yet. I'm in the process of deciding how much of their stuff to put on three different rifles.

Welding Rod
April 1, 2010, 01:17 PM
Tirod - When I was in the army many of the mags issued within my units were junk. They were simply worn out. I don't know that alumium mags are a problem, other than they have a history of sometimes being expected to last forever.

In my experience the easiest way to cull out bad mags is to measure between the feedlips. I started doing this sometime back to try and figure why bad mags had feed problems. I can't recall a malfunctioning magazine I ever checked that didn't measure well over 0.460" between the feed lips.

Some manufactures put new mags out that vary in this dimension dramatically, with some well over 0.460", and those are the ones that are likely to create feed issues even when new.

Personally I consider up to 0.460" as reliable, 0.461 to 0.470" OK but best suited for range use, and over 0.470" as not something I would rely upon.

I am surprised the army hasn't (to my knowledge) adopted some kind of check, maybe with a go/nogo gauge, of feedlip spacing as a unit level maintenance check. With a shooting conflict going on, the time to ID a bad magazine is not once it has already malfunctioned.

Maverick223
April 1, 2010, 01:27 PM
I am surprised the army hasn't (to my knowledge) adopted some kind of check, maybe with a go/nogo gauge, of feedlip spacing as a unit level maintenance check.I believe I have seen something like this (it also measured the feed lip angle IIRC), but I am not sure where, and was unable to find one with a quick search.

:)

briansmithwins
April 1, 2010, 01:55 PM
I am surprised the army hasn't (to my knowledge) adopted some kind of check, maybe with a go/nogo gauge, of feedlip spacing as a unit level maintenance check.

From what I remember from reading 'The Black Rifle' it was tried. The problem was that some mags that failed the gauge were perfectly functional while some mags that passed the gauging would not work in a rifle. BSW

greyling22
April 1, 2010, 02:50 PM
cdnn has 20 round thermold mags for 5 bucks. are the thermold mags any good or is it a waste of cash?I haven't been able to find much out about them other than canada used a modified thermold (same deisgn, different plastic) that did not work so good.

Boba Fett
April 1, 2010, 03:01 PM
Also, there are rifles out there with stanag magwells that simply won't accept Pmags at all; this seems to be a consistent report with the FS2k and SCAR for instance.


For those who have had issues with the PMAG not fitting in other rifles, take a look at the Magpul EMAG:

http://store.magpul.com/product/8/10


http://store.magpul.com/images/uploads/8_142_popup.jpg
The EMAG (Export MAGazine) is a lightweight 30-round 5.56x45 NATO polymer magazine that features a number of aesthetic and functional changes from the original PMAG®. While EMAG remains 100% compatible with the AR15/M16 platform, its unique geometry is optimized for foreign-made weapons such as the HK 416, FN SCAR, British SA-80, Beretta ARX-160, IMI Tavor, and others.

To enhance compatibility with double and triple magazine pouches as well as aftermarket mag couplers, the EMAG features a slim, rib-less, anti-snag profile. Front-to-back and side-to-side dimensions have been adjusted to ensure compatibility with as many STANAG 4179 weapons as possible, including most non Colt-spec AR15 rifles.

EMAG features a pop-off Impact/Dust Cover to prevent dirt and debris intrustion and protect the feedlips from impact damage during storage. When not in use, the dust cover can be stored on the magazine floorplate.

For easier and more accurate identification of loaded round count via the large, single-side MagLevel window, the stainless steel magazine spring is now coated with milspec black oxide and the indicator coil painted with a high visibility orange color. Numerical indicators have been added to the body to identify 5, 15, and 25 loaded rounds.

Made in U.S.A.

Features

* Impact and crush resistant polymer construction
* Constant-curve internal geometry for smooth feeding
* Anti-tilt, self-lubricating follower for increased reliability
* Multi-use Impact/Dust Cover to protect feedlips from impact damage, keep dust and dirt out of the magazine during storage, and can be used as a tool for easy cartridge removal
* Black-oxide coated (MIL-DTL-13924D) USGI-spec stainless steel spring
* Transparent window on one side of the EMAG along with a painted indicator on the spring allows for easy determination of rounds remaining
* Textured gripping surface and flared floorplate for positive magazine handling and easy disassembly

briansmithwins
April 1, 2010, 03:06 PM
I've owned (and thrown away) Thermolds AR mags. I'd rather have ½ the number of $10 Pmags as $5 Thermolds. By the time you last Thermold is busted you'd still have all your Pmags. BSW

WC145
April 1, 2010, 03:12 PM
I also use only PMags in my patrol rifle and my son had me send him some while in Afghanistan. He's a USAF TACP and, according to him, that's all the TACPs, CCTs, and other AFSOC guys are using. In fact, after getting back in December, he volunteered to go back early and is supposed to be leaving today. I checked with him and his PMags are packed with the rest of his gear and ready to go.

Maverick223
April 1, 2010, 03:14 PM
cdnn has 20 round thermold mags for 5 bucks. are the thermold mags any good or is it a waste of cash?I haven't been able to find much out about them other than canada used a modified thermold (same deisgn, different plastic) that did not work so good.I had a couple, and they did fine, about on par with USGI aluminum magazines, but were not as robust as the PMag. I bought them when Thermolds and ProMags were the only polymer 20rnd mags. I would, and have since, spent the extra cash for PMags and Lancer mags instead.

:)

taliv
April 1, 2010, 03:27 PM
Many shooters work through a pile of metal magazines sorting out the bad ones and marking them.

mostly when they buy c-products or worse. there are plenty of good, reliable aluminum mags.

Tirod - When I was in the army many of the mags issued within my units were junk. They were simply worn out. I don't know that alumium mags are a problem, other than they have a history of sometimes being expected to last forever.

exactly. they're wear items, like springs. expect to replace them. SO ARE PMAGS.

mljdeckard
April 1, 2010, 03:31 PM
Especially in training units, using blanks. They all suck.

Al LaVodka
April 1, 2010, 08:56 PM
The metal throw away design of aluminum M16 magazines has been a problem area since it's introduction. And since most stoppages are directly related to bad feeding, in tactical competition, few depend on them. In combat, even more so, since the introduction of the Pmags.

It didn't help to expand the capacity to thirty rounds as the straight mag well design can't accomodate the curve required to stack them. 30 rounders are not optimally designed and have that problem added as a potential malfunction. The mags use a spiral wound spring with the feed pressures at marginally acceptable levels that really do cause excessive friction when loaded fully.

Many shooters work through a pile of metal magazines sorting out the bad ones and marking them. They often go straight to the next gun show for disposal. Army surplus is the same, why sell a good serviceable magazine? What leaves the inventory are regarded as junkers not fit for combat.

Many new shooters buy these and then load them up to full capacity, which binds the older followers because of inefficient design and high spring pressures. Leaving them loaded spreads the feed lips, and the mag simply won't work correctly. The uneducated naked eye can't tell one from the other. The weapon gets the blame, tho, the stupid thing really is a jammomatic like Uncle Fred said.

It's pretty easy to see how the public is taken advantage of, distorts their misunderstanding, and perpetuates a falsehood.

Since unscrupulous people can and will dump their bad magazines for profit, the best attitude in buying them is that they are all damaged and won't work unless refit and repair is planned first. Those that do that and competently repair and service them have few problems. Some even crush the ones that won't work right at all, collectible, pre-ban, AWB, or not.

Maybe we should all start treating magazines as our life depended on them, then maybe they'll work when we need them.

Pmags don't dent, have low friction internal surfaces, anti tilt followers that don't bind, won't corrode internally, and are designed to be stored with no pressure on the feed lips. They have earned their rep as a superior magazine.
Stop it -- you're scaring me!

:_(

Al

RyanM
April 1, 2010, 09:35 PM
I've said this before, but if you ask me, 99% of the reason why there's such a difference in reliability reputation between the AK-47 and AR-15 is the magazines. AK-47s use steel magazines with ridiculously thick feed lips, that practically require deliberate sabotage to damage. The inside of the magazine has a continuous curve, and the followers of every AK mag I've ever had would not tilt one single degree. That allows them to use thumb-bustingly heavy springs without any binding whatsoever.

Aluminum mags for the AR have feed lips of the same gauge as the body, so they're about half as thick as an AK mag's feed lips, in addition to being much weaker material to start. Add to that the fact that even "anti-tilt" followers tilt somewhat, and ARs definitely have more of a propensity to bind. The mag spring is considerably weaker (AK mags are seriously torture to load), yet the design also makes it bind more. Tapered rounds in a straight magazine is probably a mistake. Tapered rounds in a partially-straight, partially-curved magazine is definitely a mistake.

Pmags, on the other hand, are stronger, way easier to tell when they're damaged or out of spec (the cover doubles as a feed lip gauge), can be stored without stress on the feed lips, and if you open one up and look inside, they've got a continuous internal curve, allowing the use of a practically tilt-free follower. It took a long time for AR magazines to catch up, but as other people have pointed out, adoption of Pmags in the military and in competition, have reduced the occurence of jams dramatically.

Neither the AR-15 design nor the direct impingement system are particularly finicky or dirt-sensitive. The AR-15 design likes to be run wet, which isn't the same as clean. Most failures can be traced to the magazine, and it's pretty plain why aluminum AR-15 mags are, on average, much lower quality than AK mags.

greyling22
April 2, 2010, 10:31 AM
speaking of pmags, anybody know of a great place to buy them? and by great place I mean way cheap including the shipping price.

basicblur
April 2, 2010, 10:44 AM
Have done a lot of searching as I made a couple of orders for 'em over the last few months. Can't help you on anything but the 30-rd standard black mags-cheapest price I found was Shooters Connection 10-pack (http://shootersconnectionstore.com/MagPul-Standard-30-round-Black-10PAK--P1426.aspx). Everywhere else I checked wanted MSRP for PMAGs.
I wasn't interested in the window version-Shooters Connection has the 10-pack for $119.99 and he's reasonable on his shipping. Never hurts to find at least one friend to split your shipping costs!
I also specified in the comments box that they make sure ALL are "M" version (the latest).

BTW-he also seemed to have some nice/reasonably priced? target pasters-got a box roll of black, white, and tan pasters and an Ed Brown plastic 1911 bushing wrench from 'em also.

Boba Fett
April 2, 2010, 12:09 PM
speaking of pmags, anybody know of a great place to buy them? and by great place I mean way cheap including the shipping price.

http://dsgarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1668 $11.21 - never used them, but really low price.

http://www.calssportingarmory.com/Magpul_MAG211_PMAG_30Rd_Magazine_Black_p/mgmpi211blk.htm $12.31 - I'm pretty sure I've ordered from them in the past


Other than that, hunt for them at the gun shows. You can find them right around $12 with ease.

And as with any internet buying, check that they have them in stock before you buy. Also, compare your shipping charges. One place might be $11 + 8 S&H while the other place is $14 and $2 S&H.

Welding Rod
April 2, 2010, 01:39 PM
http://www.44mag.com/

I have had really good experiences here.

Ben86
April 3, 2010, 09:49 AM
I've heard people mentioning feed lips being spread out with magazine storage. Is that long term storage? I cycle my HD magazine once a week with another, it's a 30 round mag that I only load to 20. Is this going to mess up the feed lips?

Tirod
April 3, 2010, 10:16 AM
RyanM did a good job comparing to the AK mags. The difference between them is night and day. AR aluminum mags were originally intended to be shipped loaded and discarded when empty, with truckloads handed out on the battle line. AK mags were made to be issued three to a soldier and used for their entire enlistment, that's all they would likely see.

Fast forward to today, extended storage is noted by Magpul to cause spread feed lips. If this is marketing or knowledge of their product, I don't know. As for drop free, some users simply sand them down to size. I suspect Magpul makes them as thick as specs allow because the material does swell and isn't as stiff as desired. Glock has metal inserts in their mags precisely to make them drop free.

Apparently the Army didn't accept the idea of storing loaded magazines for immediate issue. I never saw that line number come up in Ammo Supply training, and suspect it doesn't work real well. Instead, bandoliers come with stripper clips and mag loaders. As RyanM pointed out, the feed lips are thin, and mag spring pressures are high with the spiral wound coil. Lots of us never put in the last two rounds precisely because they are so hard to do.

RyanM
April 3, 2010, 11:38 AM
I've heard people mentioning feed lips being spread out with magazine storage. Is that long term storage? I cycle my HD magazine once a week with another, it's a 30 round mag that I only load to 20. Is this going to mess up the feed lips?

I know for sure that happened a lot, early on in Vietnam with the 20-rounders. The modern aluminum 30 rounders are supposed to use a "reinforced" feed lip design, but they're still aluminum, and can still spread over a long period of time.

With Pmags, I wouldn't worry about it. Feed lip creep has yet to actually happen, as far as I know. If you're using aluminum mags, keep the mag loaded with 28 rounds inserted in the gun, and feed lip spreading won't be an issue (the bolt carrier pushes the rounds down a little).

If you're using Pmags, keep them loaded with 30 and keep the impact covers on, and practice removing them. If you're using a carry handle, you can use that to pop them off really fast.

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Fast forward to today, extended storage is noted by Magpul to cause spread feed lips.

I think someone lied to you. I've heard that sort of thing a lot from the aluminum junkies, who claim the impact cover indicates a "design failure" or something. I guess you've talked to them, too.

Here's what Magpul and their representatives have had to say on the subject:

"Final answer, straight from the horse's mouth: the impact/dust cover is just a precaution. The PMAG polymers are very new, so we didn't have the luxury of 50+ years of material T&E like aluminum and steel magazine manufacturers. Are they necessary? I suppose that depends - if you're going to use your magazines as paperweights for the next 20 years, there really isn't any reason not to use the impact cover. If you're actually going to use your PMAGs as intended, the cover is probably overkill.

Personally, I have snap covers on my stockpiled mags, and no covers on the mags I shoot. Like I said before - we have some of the first prototypes sitting at the office, loaded with 30 rounds, no snap cover, and it's been almost 18 months. If your PMAG feedlips creep, send them back - I want to see it, because you'll be the first to report such a problem."

"Testing shows feed lip strength and creep resistance (deformation over time) are superior to those of other plastic magazines and USGI magazines. Various testing has shown minimal wear after firing tens of thousands of rounds."

"The PMAG™ was designed for long-term loaded storage with the impact cover in place. First, the impact cover prevents feed lip creep (when stored over 1 year). Second, the high-quality, heat-treated, stainless steel spring resists spring relaxation (weakening over time). Note: Spring relaxation occurs in all springs under prolonged loading. Spring design, material, quality of manufacture, magnitude of compression, temperature and many other variables can affect spring relaxation rates. Testing has shown the spring used in the PMAG™ does not experience detrimental levels of relaxation from prolonged compression."

"The impact cover locks into geometry on the front and back of the magazine exterior and presses down on the top round of the loaded stack. This redirects the pressure from the rounds that would normally deform plastic feed lips over time and cause magazine-related failures-to-feed."

People like to misinterpret that very last one, ignoring the earlier part that says Pmags are more resistant to feed lip creep than aluminum ones. Anything can bend if you apply enough force, and the impact cover really doesn't seem to be necessary. It's just a paranoid precaution.

jobu07
April 3, 2010, 12:11 PM
Part of the clue as to why M16 service magazines are so crummy after a long life - they are disposable end items in the supply system. That's also why you see so many on the market (i.e. some supply NCO grabs 10 or 20 boxes of these from the warehouse and sells them to a distributer). In any event, they are a disposable end item with no accountability on them at all. Once they wear out you throw them out.

Welding Rod
April 3, 2010, 02:51 PM
they are a disposable end item with no accountability on them at all.

Not in the US Army I served in. The only items I can readily think of that didn't have accountability were ball point pens and copy paper. We had to account for every mile driven on our vehicles, rolls of tape, screwdrivers...... it seemed more time was spent accounting for equipment than using it.

On topic, nothing wrong with aluminum mags as long as you toss them when they need to be tossed... same goes for PMAGs though.

Al Thompson
April 5, 2010, 04:19 PM
W. Rod, yeah, magazines are Class 9 items. Few people know that though...

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