.451 230gr FMJ Bullseye load data variances between books


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bootcamp
April 1, 2010, 08:21 PM
Ok, i've had my Speer 14 manual since i've started reloading last year. I recently started loading .451 FMJ 230gr .45 ammo and have been using the Speer data. But also just aquired a Lyman 49 manual.

Speer lists the following for Bullseye:

Min: 5.2 gr
Max: 5.7 gr

I have been loading 5.3-5.4 gr loads and I initially noticed that recoil was much more stronger than the mid-load that i've used with W231 powder (can't remember the load).

So I get this Lyman 49 manual in the mail and look up .45 auto same load reads as follows:

Min: 3.8 gr
Max 5.3 gr

:eek: No wonder why my recoil has been "factory-like"

What do you guys do when you see varying data like this? I'm thinking of starting with Lyman's 3.8gr start load and working up from there. I don't think it could hurt any.

I guess my concern is why Speer's data is so much higher and should it be trusted? I'm thinking it could be, but I don't like running hot.

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243winxb
April 1, 2010, 08:47 PM
Edit :OOPs FMJ, missed that. The difference in brass thickness is a factor along with different primers. 3.8gr may not work your action its so light. Start low on the powder charge and work up. Go for accuracy , not velocity. If tests were done in different firearm, as 918v said below, the maximum powder charge could be different.

Canuck-IL
April 1, 2010, 09:51 PM
Even in a low pressure round like the 45ACp, overall length matters. Were the 2 sources the same OAL? What about barrel length - matters to velocity achieved.

FWIW, 4.6 - 4.7 of BE will get you to military ball velocities ... say 830 fps with an OAL of 1.260.
/Bryan

bensdad
April 1, 2010, 10:04 PM
I like Speer 14 way better for my auto loads. Don't think I've opened the Lyman for months. Start low, look for preasure signs, go for function and accuracy, rinse, lather, repeat.

hydraulicman
April 1, 2010, 10:14 PM
230 precision delta fmj

5 grains bullseye

wlp


runs my springer gi 1911 and XD45

hydraulicman
April 1, 2010, 10:17 PM
now i load 5.5 bullseye and 200 grain round nose flat point

SlamFire1
April 1, 2010, 10:49 PM
I use the manuals as a guide for my own testing.

I shoot loads over a chronograph. For a 45 ACP I want my 230 grain loads to be just at 800 fps out of a M1911.

This is close to the original 1910 load established for the development of the M1911. There are many hotter loads out there, but I shoot my reloads at the range, I have shot tens of thousands of 45ACP rounds, and I don't see a need to beat up my pistols.

I have not shot FMJ with Bullseye. I have shot lots of 230 LRN 4.5 grains Bullseye gets me 800 fps.

A Bullseye shooter said that 5.0 grains was the hardball load. So I guess for a FMJ you need to add half a grain.

Still, I recommend you get a chronograph and test your loads. It is reasonable to assume that velocities higher than book value also have pressures higher than book value.

Skip_a_roo
April 1, 2010, 11:32 PM
You are leaving something out of the equation, the OAL. Is there a difference in either bullet type or in the OAL. What you really need to know is how your bullet compares to the one that the manuals used concerning bullet OAL. That is something far different than COAL or Cartridge Over All Length.

The thing that causes high pressures in handgun loads most frequently is a bullet that ends up with too much of it in the case. Why do you think Elmer designed his bullets like he did? To make sure there was more room in the case for powder! While you may not want more powder in the 45ACP, bullet seating depth still plays a big part in the equation. We just talked about this in another thread.

If you seat the bullet to 1.200" and the recipe calls for a minimum or 1.275", what is going to happen if you use the same amount of powder for each? Pressure is going to go way up for the one that is seated shorter.

This is the phenomenon that you may be looking at. One bullet weight combined with a charge of powder at an OAL designed for a longer OAL.

Check it out.

918v
April 2, 2010, 01:37 AM
Both Speer and Lyman use similar OAL's. Speer uses 1.260" and Lyman uses 1.275". I noticed that Speer's data was developed in a Sig P220. Could it be the Sig chamber is a wee bit different that whatever Lyman used? In my experience, Sig chambers have longish freebores, and that certainly contributes to reducing pressures.

bootcamp
April 2, 2010, 12:20 PM
Sorry guys. My OAL is 1.260" +/- .003 variance.

I did start at Speer's 5.2gr min and loaded 25 of them and then loaded another 25 at 5.4gr. Both loads seemed to be accurate, not as accurate as W231 but accurate with "factory-like" recoil.

I'm not comfortable starting with Lyman's recommended min of 3.8gr. (I don't want to waste loads that may not even cycle in my 1911) So I loaded up a few last night at 4.6gr, 4.8gr and 5.0gr.

I'm looking for accuracy and relatively lighter recoil. I guess I was spoiled by the pound of W231. As soon as those start poppping up on th shelves i'll be buying a couple 8 pounders.

Thanks guys. I'm surprised to hear that 4.7-4.8gr matches military ball ammo. Looking forward to do some testing.

bds
April 2, 2010, 12:33 PM
I guess I was spoiled by the pound of W231. As soon as those start poppping up on th shelves i'll be buying a couple 8 pounders.

Winchester W231 and Hodgdon HP38 are the same exact powder in different labeled bottles and HP38 is cheaper. Some have posted that Ramshot Zip and IMR 700X are also essentially same burn rate powders and can be replaced for W231. You might look for these alternate powders.

Powder Valley is currently out of W231/HP38 but has the following in stock: http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

IMR 700X - 4 LB $56.50 / 8 LB $104.00
Ramshot Zip - 1 LB $16.10 / 4 LB $59.25

918v
April 2, 2010, 12:53 PM
I like a 230gr FMJ over 5 grains of Bullseye with a FC primer. It feels right and groups tight, much better than WWB, twice as tight in fact.

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