Anybody care to school the village idiot? Factory Crimp?


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pcwirepro
April 2, 2010, 12:34 AM
I can't seem to get my Hornday seat/crimp die to do a good enough job on 200 gr .45 LSWC. Tonight I took out my powder cop, seated only in station #4 and dropped my Lee FCD into #5. Seems to be a better finish overall. So the question would be.... should I get a powder through expander to go on the LNL so I can get my powder cop back on the press? Any downside to the powder/expander setup in station #2? What are most doing? If anyone has a part# for the die that would be greatly appreciated.

TG

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vtail
April 2, 2010, 12:45 AM
If you want a powder through expander, get one of these:

http://www.powderfunnels.com/

This is what I'm using along with the RCBS Lock Out die.

pcwirepro
April 2, 2010, 12:48 AM
Cool. Thanks vtail. Do you use that in a Hornady powder measure?

From thier site "We do not believe in outsourcing or trust Chinese quality"
I like em already.

steve4102
April 2, 2010, 09:24 AM
I can't seem to get my Hornday seat/crimp die to do a good enough job on 200 gr .45 LSWC.

What do you mean by "good enough job"? The crimp on a 45 ACP should be only enough to remove the flair. It should not dig into the bullet.

mongoose33
April 2, 2010, 10:02 AM
I'm using the powderfunnel PTX in my Hornady LnL powder measure. Works like a champ, and the beauty of it is that you only have to buy one PTX; it'll work for all sorts of handgun calibers.

I wanted one because I wanted a powder checker in one of my LnL stations. I chose the RCBS Lockout Die because to me, the Hornady Powder Cop did little more than my looking in the case each time. And since the Powder Cop requires me to look each and every time, I wasn't happy with it as a failsafe.

The Lockout die will stop the completion of the stroke if there is a squib load (no powder drop) or a double load. In fact, it'll even catch partial loads, though RCBS won't advertise it as such.

I was reloading a couple nights ago using it, and it caught two mis-drops. The rotor stuck in the up position, and didn't drop down as the ram lowered, meaning no powder was dropped in the next case. (I added a little graphite to the sliding parts, problem solves). But the point is the Lockout die caught it for me; maybe I would have been looking at a Powder Cop, maybe not.

And FWIW: I use the FCD in my last station.

pcwirepro
April 2, 2010, 10:13 AM
What do you mean by "good enough job"? The crimp on a 45 ACP should be only enough to remove the flair. It should not dig into the bullet.
I didn't explain that very well. The crimp/seat die seems to have a more aggressive taper that is only applied to the very end of the case whereas the Lee FCD has a more gradual taper to it. With plated bullets and LSWC that are a tad oversized the crimp/seat just seems to be either too little or too much. With the Lee FCD the cartridge just drops into the barrel with a nice "clink" sound.
Disclaimer: I'm new to this reloading stuff so I may be using the equipment incorrectly.

G36Rick
April 2, 2010, 05:53 PM
Stick with the Lee Factory crimp die.Zero ,I mean zero faults... :-)

newrugersafan
April 2, 2010, 07:14 PM
You may want to check with Hornady but I believe the crimp die supplied with the 3 die set is a roll crimp. I had the same problem with my set. I went ahead and bought the Lee Factory Crimp die also. I'm not sure if I'm sold on it but at least they all chamber in my Dan Wesson 1911. I do think the die is shaving some lead off my LRN bullet. I've adjusted the bell and seated the bullet with no shaving and then after running it through the Lee die I get a partial lead ring on some of my loads.

I usually de-cap and size ahead of time so I flare in #1 powder drop in #2 RCBS powder check in #3 seat in #4 and crimp in #5. I usually seat and crimp in one die but with this set I have to go with the extra step. I'm probably going to get a taper crimp die from Hornady and work on this a little more.

Use Hornady dies in 9mm with no problems and RCBS dies on 40 S&W with no problems so I'm pretty sure its not me

Mike

pcwirepro
April 2, 2010, 08:07 PM
You may want to check with Hornady but I believe the crimp die supplied with the 3 die set is a roll crimp

Interesting... thank you. Is there an obvious difference between the two dies?

243winxb
April 2, 2010, 08:23 PM
Notes:
# Seating die features seater adjustment screw, built-in crimper, locking retainer spring as well as a floating bullet seater alignment sleeve and seating stem, which prealign the bullet and case before seating occurs. This set is taper crimp. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=187392 Looks like a fancy die with extra stuff thats not needed in a 45 acp die. Includes CGND Nitride Full-length Sizing Die, CGND Adjustable Case Mouth Expander Die and CGND Seater Die with taper crimp. The sizer die features Titanium Nitride sizing rings that eliminate case sticking and require no lubrication. The Zip Spindle is set in place with a collet lock and secured with light threads for precision decapping and easy adjustment. Comes packaged with a plastic storage box and three Sure-Loc Rings, Shellholder sold separately. :cuss:

Walkalong
April 2, 2010, 09:50 PM
Any downside to the powder/expander setup in station #2? No. I use my regular expanders in station 2 to do my expanding, not a "universal" one in the measure set up. I never have to re-adjust them. Set em and forget em.

Any taper crimp die or seater with a taper crimp built in will crimp .45 ACP just fine.

pcwirepro
April 2, 2010, 11:39 PM
Any taper crimp die or seater with a taper crimp built in will crimp .45 ACP just fine.
Walkalong,

I see that you are the resident Reloading Savant, and I mean that with the greatest respect, but is there any case to be made for the FCD? With it I can get a distinct "clink" of the case falling into the barrel but not with the seat/crimp combo. I have tried it every which way with no luck at all.

Maj Dad
April 3, 2010, 12:45 AM
I put away all my crimp dies (9mm, 45, 30 carbine and a couple others) about 15 years ago and use taper crimp dies exclusively. I have RCBS, Hornady and (I think) Pacific, so I am not choosy as to who made it, but I can tell you that all those years I used minutely-adjusted roll-crimpers I always had failures to fire because of a little too much roll. Not so with the tapers - they work.

newrugersafan
April 3, 2010, 01:00 AM
This is the taper crimp die

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-ACP-Taper-Crimp-Die-1-Each/[



This is the seating crimp die that comes in the 3 die set

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.451-Seating-Die-1-Each/

I don't believe the seating die that comes with the set is a taper crimp.....but I've been wrong before.

Mike

Walkalong
April 3, 2010, 11:06 AM
pcwirepro

I am not a fan of the FCD. Most here know that. Many would disagree, while many would agree.

That said, I stand by the post that "Any taper crimp die or seater with a taper crimp built in will crimp .45 ACP just fine."

Mark your case with a magic marker or something and chamber it. See where the problem is. If the round is too fat and the FCD die is squishing it to fit, I would say there is another cure, while some would say you just found the cure.

If that is not it, and it is the crimp causing the problem, I would think the crimp function of the die is bad and a new die is in order.

Lots of reloading gurus here to help you out. ;)

Mal H
April 3, 2010, 11:28 AM
"I don't believe the seating die that comes with the set is a taper crimp.....but I've been wrong before."

You are correct. The die that is labeled "seater" on it in the 3 piece set is a roll crimp die. You can see a noticeable step in the inside diameter of the relatively thin and movable crimping sleeve inside the die.

pcwirepro
April 3, 2010, 12:05 PM
Well the description on Midways site claims it's a taper crimp but almost every comment from those that bought the set claim to have the same issues that I'm having. Guess I'll stick with the Lee FCD and look into getting a powder through expander die so I can get my powder check back on the press. :( Let's not tell Walkalong, I don't want him to cut me off.

Beelzy
April 3, 2010, 12:29 PM
Factory crimp dies are not all that. A roll crimp die will give a tapered crimp if you don't
screw it down so far.

They shorten the reloading life of the case as well, IMO.

pcwirepro
April 3, 2010, 12:35 PM
They shorten the reloading life of the case as well, IMO.

A FCD will shorten case life? Why is this?
I'm sure that a roll crimp die will in fact remove belling but if it only applies pressure to the very tip of the case then it doesn't seem appropriate to use it to taper. If the belling of a case extends let's say 1/16" down from the case mouth then I would think that whatever you're using to remove this belling should be applied to that entire 1/16" of surface area.

RyanM
April 3, 2010, 12:55 PM
Personally, I'd say it's a pretty good idea to seat and crimp seperately, whether you use a Lee FCD, or two of the same seat/crimp dies.

Also, where the Lee FCD really shines is if you're using a hand press, or a press mounted to a crooked desk. Some crimp dies can crimp a little off center if your press isn't perfectly vertical. The FCD eliminates that.

Fatelvis
April 3, 2010, 01:20 PM
I wish Dillon made one of those expanding funnels for thier powder measure! I've been butchering thier pistol caliber funnels to make them work for my cast bullet rifle loading for years!

243winxb
April 3, 2010, 01:24 PM
Contact Hornady, ask if that seating die is roll or taper? http://www.hornady.com/contact_us

cheygriz
April 3, 2010, 01:36 PM
Stick with the LEE FCD. :)

newrugersafan
April 4, 2010, 01:00 AM
I have tried using the crimper die that came with my Hornady to seat and crimp but I can not get a round to chamber properly in my 1911. I can remove most of the flare but I can't get it below .474 and that is not small enough to chamber reliably. If I try to increase the crimp I buckle the case.

If anyone has any suggestions I'd be happy to try them. I will get a taper crimp die either RCBS or Hornady and give it a try again but in the mean time the Lee die works.
It does resize my lead RN but only at the front of the driving band. The base is still at .452

Mike

pcwirepro
April 4, 2010, 11:23 AM
Mike,

Sounds like the same problem I'm having. I'll contact Hornady but I'm pretty sure that seating and crimping simultaneously is not the best approach

243winxb
April 4, 2010, 12:21 PM
The Hornady seating die might have a design problem or bad quality control. Let Hornady know of your problems. Yes , crimping in a separate operation is the easy way out, but should not be a must do. Is your bullet diameter correct? .452" for lead or .451" for jacketed? Let us know what Hornady has to say. Taper or Roll ?

Walkalong
April 4, 2010, 01:45 PM
The 9MM Hornady seater I have has kind of a cross between a roll and taper crimp in it. (More roll than taper) It looks just like the ones in their seaters for revolver calibers. The design roll crimps quite well, but it seems like a very sharp angle for a taper crimp. I do no use it to taper crimp.

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