Sig & Springfield (or "Others") Question/Comparisons: 1911's & P220's


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Dave I
April 3, 2010, 05:50 PM
Hey all,

I've read way too much on these ("these" being the Sig P220, Sig "GSR" 1911, and Springfield Arms 1911, various configs). Brief explanation: I've handled a P220 and a couple 1911's, will be shooting a Colt .45 1911, and hope to find a Sig to test out. I could see myself eventually having some sort of non-Sig 1911 a/o P220 a/o a Sig 1911, but that's down the road a ways so this is more of a what-to-get-for-now rather than a first-and-last-gun-I-ever-get scenario, for what that's worth.

Anyway, my main questions are as follows:

1) How are the tolerances & general reliability between the Sig 1911 and the Springfield 1911's (I'm specifically looking at the Springfield Loaded Operator because in theory I like the rail as an option, but also non-railed Loadeds and the TRP if I can find a nice deal on one that I like)? This thread kind of spurred this train of thought:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=77924

I do like the idea of a gun tailored to more reliability and slightly looser tolerances even if it means less pinpoint accuracy. However, Sig's CS and QC (customer service & quality control) have taken a hit lately, while SA's got pretty good word-of-mouth customer service (yet Ayoob Massad loves them like his only son), so I'm not sure how much I read into Internet praise or words of caution about any major manufacturer. Still, if one it built closer to my goal in mind, I'm interested in hearing about it.

2) P220 SAO vs. 1911's: Given one of the main hiccups in people loving the P220 is the DA/SA, how much would that be solved with a P220 in SAO and skinny grips perhaps with a trigger job?

3) Pro's/Con's of the Sig interpretation of the 1911: If you have any beefs with the Sig version, other than aesthetics (I like the looks of the traditional and the Sig so I'm not really in either camp), what strikes you as being beneficial or detrimental to its functionality or just overall practicality or enjoyment?

4) Has the Sig 1911 pretty much hammered out their issues with the initial run of the GSR, or have there still been problems with them that should potentially scratch them off the list (particularly if I get one, shoot a few hundred rounds through it, and then have it fixed/tweaked if there are any issues with it to make it function as it's supposed to a/o weed out a possible lemon)?

5) If you have any other thoughts or if I'm describing some other make/model that fits my description better for some reason, feel free to chime in. I THINK the above mentioned models meet my needs and gun-lust for now, but you never know.

-Cheers

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magnumman44
April 3, 2010, 06:07 PM
I have not owned a Springfield 1911, but I have owned a Smith and Wesson 1911, and it was a pretty slick shooter. As for the Sig, I own a 220 SAO, and it is the best shooting semi-auto Handgun I have ever owned. The trigger is excellent, the fit and quality is superb. I really love this handgun and would recommend it to anyone considering a new 45.

9mmepiphany
April 3, 2010, 07:51 PM
2) P220 SAO vs. 1911's: Given one of the main hiccups in people loving the P220 is the DA/SA, how much would that be solved with a P220 in SAO and skinny grips perhaps with a trigger job?
i wouldn't call it a given, the inability of someone being unable to control the DA/SA trigger...especially on a Sig isn't the gun's fault. it's either a lack of training or understanding...especially since a tuned 220ST has beaten tuned 1911s head to head in IDPA competition.

the DA/SA 220 will run better with less care than any 1911, it's a built-in trait of it's design. with a tuned action and Hogue aluminum or G-10 grips (thinner of better index), you would need the SAO model to compete with the 1911.

between a SAO 220 and a Sig 1911, i'd have more confidence in the 220...i think it's mainly a left over from the design problems of their early guns. i don't especially care for the feel of the Sig 1911's thumb safety.

for someone getting into a 1911...if you don't want to reach up to a Dan Wesson, i'd recommend a Springfield or S&W as a good starter

Dave I
April 3, 2010, 09:53 PM
i wouldn't call it a given, the inability of someone being unable to control the DA/SA trigger...especially on a Sig isn't the gun's fault. it's either a lack of training or understanding...especially since a tuned 220ST has beaten tuned 1911s head to head in IDPA competition.

Maybe I wasn't speaking clearly. What I meant was, the DA/SA trigger is a common complaint/gripe/hurdle for a lot of people in falling in love with the P220. At least according to the Internet. You hear that a lot; people love a SAO or a DAO, but lots of people claim to not like the DA/SA quite as much. It might be lack of training a/o understanding, but people do seem to generally prefer SAO or DAO over DA/SA. Not saying it's the gun's fault, but it does seem to kinda/sorta throw people off a bit.

The rest, I can't really argue for or against.

-Cheers

Bovice
April 3, 2010, 10:03 PM
I like the choice that DA/SA offers me. Shooting at a static range, I can shoot SA all day and make nice groups. If I want to carry it loaded, I can do that without worrying that something might pull the trigger because it's heavy as hell.

I like more complex things. I like watches with chronographs and tachymeters. I appreciate a good smooth automatic movement that's self-winding. But there are a lot more people who go the quartz Timex route. Those people would be your DAO people. SAO people are somewhere in between.

franconialocal
April 3, 2010, 10:11 PM
I can't really speak to the 1911 craze too much, but I do carry a Sig P-220 DA/SA full size every day for duty and train with it extensively. I liked my issued one so much I decided to go out and buy my own...then the .22 L/R conversion as well.

I can confidently say that it is a fine, fine sidearm. I've never had any problems with either my issued or personal sidearm, and have used it and carried it in all kinds of mountain conditions, salt exposure, rain, snow, neglect, abuse, etc.----just keeps ticking. On the flip side it's easy to strip and clean as well.

The action is smooth and precise, very "forgiving" for a full size .45 cal. with very little recoil to it. It eats all kinds of ammo without a problem. The mag release is sure and positive and tac. reloads are a breeze. Even the DA pull isn't too bad with a relatively short travel.
It is accurate, has a great feel and balance in the hand. I would prefer possibly some softer pachmayr or hogue grips, as the stock ones are a bit firm, but still feels positive in the hand and I really can't complain about them. The sight picture is accurate and the tritium sights are crisp and clear.
We shoot qualifications out to a max. of 75 feet and this sidearm is still very accurate---good center mass shots although the grouping can start getting a bit sloppy this far away (due to the shooter in part as well).

I guess the only drawbacks I can find are that it may not be the best CCW choice due to the size, but they do make a compact version as well and mag capacity is limited to 8 rd. (+1) in the version we carry, and somtimes I wish we had more. OVERALL I'm very happy with this sidearm though and would really recommend it to anyone. Happy shooting!! -Chris

Sapper771
April 3, 2010, 10:31 PM
1). I bought a loaded stainless Springfield 1911 a few years back. My buddy bought a Sig GSR. The loaded was tight, the GSR was not as tight as the loaded. The GSR was a good shooter and plenty accurate. I have had some limited dealings with Sig's CS via email (just asking questions about certain P220 models). They responded to my first two emails, then they quit. I gave up, and went a different route. I had one incident where I needed warranty service on my Springfield TRP. When I took it apart to clean it, the ejector fell out of the frame. The ejector on my TRP was just glued in, not pinned. I called Springfield's CS and they emailed me a shipping label. I took the TRP and the label to fed ex and off it went....no money out of my pocket. I included a C&S ejector pin and a note requesting that the ejector be pinned in, instead of glued. I received my TRP back in 6 working days. Springfield pinned and glued my ejector , and sent me one of their ejector pins as a replacement for mine. I was very impressed, and very happy.

2). I have only owned one Sig 220 SAO. It was a good gun. The thumb safety was stiff though. The trigger was decent. With that in mind, it couldn't touch my Springfield TRP's trigger. You will be hard pressed to find a better trigger than a 1911's.
I am sure that a good trigger job and some tuning by a good smith with smooth things out.

3). I haven't had much contact time with the GSRs, so I will pass this one to someone who has more experience with them.

4). Refer to #3.

5). Try them both out, shoot them if you can. Get the one that fits you best. I don't recommend getting the Sig SAO if what you really want is a 1911, and vice versa. They are similar systems, but they shoot differently (IMO). The 1911 has a larger aftermarket following than the Sig SAO.

Good Luck with your decision.

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