Norinco firearms is being sold in other countries


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nathan
April 4, 2010, 10:13 AM
while we miss the good stuff at a good price. Thanks to ex Pres Clinton.

I heard its not only in Canada but many others are importing them.

http://www.marstar.ca/spec-rif.htm

http://www.marstar.ca/index2.shtm

Private sales in Philippines with Norinco made 1911s


http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/classifieds+directory/q/norinco+firearms

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Badlander
April 4, 2010, 10:30 AM
I don't want any Chi Com guns but it sucks that the gooberment made that decision for us.

aka108
April 4, 2010, 10:54 AM
Seems funny that we ban the importation of Chinese sporting firearms. Our economy runs on borrowed Chinese money and almost every shoe sold here is made in China as well as household items and tools and just about anything you buy, even food. Just check the stuff a Wally or Sam's or Costco or anywhere. Canada with all it's goofy gun laws allows the importation and sale of Chinese small arms. Quality of some the Chinese stuff is good, all steel and no plastic. When our govt talks about open trade it speaks with a forked tongue.

ijosef
April 4, 2010, 12:01 PM
Yeah, the importation of Chinese firearms would really change the used market here in the States. If they started importing the MAK 90 in standard (non-thumbhole stock) configuration again for around $350 street, you would see the prices of other AKs fall, especially on the used market. The beat SKS that sold for $75 15 years ago that's now taking $250 would also take a big hit in price.

I'm sure the prices of all Chinese firearms would rise due to skyrocketing demand if the US import ban was lifted, but they'd still help mitigate the insanity of the 'evil gun' market.

shockwave
April 4, 2010, 12:08 PM
If a ban on Chinese guns helps to support our domestic firearms industry and protects and saves American jobs, I'm all for it. One-hundred percent.

jem375
April 4, 2010, 01:23 PM
same as with their Norinco 7.62x39MM ammo, we used to buy 1200 round cases in wooden boxes for a decent price years ago before the ban went into effect. That ammo is some of the best available for that caliber and I still have a mixed case of steel and lead core ammo, and it is the most accurate I have shot in AK's and SKS's along with Barnaul....

Zach S
April 4, 2010, 03:40 PM
If a ban on Chinese guns helps to support our domestic firearms industry and protects and saves American jobs, I'm all for it. One-hundred percent.
I could understand that reasoning, if we didn't already have have small arms imported from several different countries...

TexasRifleman
April 4, 2010, 03:45 PM
I don't want any Chi Com guns but it sucks that the gooberment made that decision for us.

Sad thing is the Chi Com M14 receivers are better than most made here.....

winchester '97
April 4, 2010, 04:18 PM
Another example of gun manufacturers doing as much to limit the 2nd amendment freedoms of their customers as the anti's. I would bet dollars to donuts that major domestic gun makers backed the bill banning imports, in the same two faced vein as Bill "68 gun ban" Ruger.

RP88
April 4, 2010, 07:01 PM
in fairness, much of what happened was Norinco's fault just as much as it was a low-blowing of the gov't to press the ban.

Them and several other greedy and shoddily modeled gun businesses did this to the market with their own tricks and games. And in hindsight, I bet some of them are glad since now they don't get undercut by ChiCom guns anymore, and companies like Norinco could probably care less since they still get international deals from other countries. after all, how else would they still be in business?

Juice Boxes
April 4, 2010, 11:09 PM
shockwave-Communistic ideals at work

NG VI
April 4, 2010, 11:21 PM
I am under the impression it was a ban signed by Bush 41, not Clinton. I may be wrong, I was between three and nine when the ban was enacted.


Edit to add- I was wrong. Very wrong.

Ignition Override
April 4, 2010, 11:38 PM
It would be nice if only US products were available, to preserve jobs.

But I would never have bought the Mini 14, Mini 30 and SKS if we had no access to affordable Russian-made ammo. Never.

Also would never have bought the Yugo Mauser (or previous MNs) if affordable surplus 8mm and x54R ammo were not here.
Will buy some powder and bullets for it in the near-future.
My guns are all used, but if the sellers made a profit (given dollar's value), it can support our economy in other ways.

Despite using Prvi Partizan .303 and storing corrosive ammo as reserve, my reloading equipment from Lee and the supplies were bought only to provide a future ammo source for my three Lee-Enfield rifles (.303 surplus has almost vanished). Kaboom..........

Profits from my cash sent to Midway, Bass Pro, Ammoman and AIM could help our economy and support jobs in Columbia MO, Memphis, NJ, OH, respectively, plus help Gunbroker's excellent sellers (of surplus 8mm Czech and Yugo) support their towns in Angier, NC and Tampa FL. Kaboom..........

Let's not forget supporting American jobs at Classicarms in Deer Trail, NC, nice folks with a very good sense of humor!

Z-Michigan
April 5, 2010, 12:02 AM
I am under the impression it was a ban signed by Bush 41, not Clinton.

Bush 41 created the 922(r) debacle, but Clinton banned nearly all Chinese firearm imports even if they were otherwise legal under 922(r) due to their "sporting nature". I believe his order on this was mostly general anti-Chinese retaliation for something (I have long since forgotten what) coupled with his general anti-gun attitude and, perhaps most of all, the fact that Chinese imports made guns more affordable, getting back to the fact that historically "gun control" in the US is intended to control poor and minorities (most especially those of a certain race/color that the 14th Amendment was intended to protect).

In other words, if the Chinese import ban was lifted, 922(r) would still apply, but a whole lot of Norinco guns would be legal to import notwithstanding 922(r). Including a Norinco M14 that lost its flash hider, and single-stack AKMs (compare to WASR single stack models), and I believe the 1911 and various other pistols as well. And, further, people could use Chinese guns as parts kits, perhaps doing the customs-bonded-warehouse thing (gun arrives at US shore in functioning state, gets torch-cut at warehouse so it's a non-gun but all parts are usable aside from receiver, then the parts set is reassembled legally on a US-made receiver). Or they could import selected items like the M14 receivers and 1911 frames and slides that all have very good reputations and cost a lot less than other comparable quality options.

RP88
April 5, 2010, 12:10 AM
anti-Chinese retaliation for something (I have long since forgotten what)

a few things off the top of my head:

ChiCom manufacturers like Norinco and Polytech have/had a long list of dealings with people we have been bombing or "concerned" about for the past 30 years. That was a big antagonistic factor right there.

Their mild steel-cored ammo was extremely cheap and flooded the market, along with their equally cheap (at the time) AKs, SKSs that people are so very afraid of.

There was the Machine Gun "sting" (not entirely sure what happened here, but neither the intercepting customs agents nor the Chinese were playing fair here), which was called "the biggest illegal arms bust in US history".

It was the early 90s. Republicans and Democrats alike were "cracking down" on gun violence and enacting whatever feel-good laws they could until they found out the hard way what a voting base can do (i.e. the AWB and the loss of 30 democratic seats to the repubs)

otomik
April 5, 2010, 12:24 AM
I would really like to buy a Norinco 1911. I hear they are the best basic starter 1911 out there for a great price.

However, Norinco's misbehavior isn't something I can ignore either as a consumer. Even if there was no executive order I would have reason to hesitate on a purchase, just as I would hesitate to purchase a gun made by an american manufacturer that adopts a cynical position on gun regulation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco

zhyla
April 5, 2010, 10:49 AM
Pffff, so Norinco had some employees caught running guns in the US. They went to trial, nuff said. Didn't S&W VP's have some run in with the law last year?

It's too bad we can't make guns cheap enough in the US to export anywhere. Tariffs an prohibition is no way to drive an economy.

rogertc1
April 5, 2010, 11:09 AM
Norinco (Interstate Arms) is still importing arms to the USA.

BTR
April 5, 2010, 01:23 PM
We can only get chinese shotguns now.

Like a some previous posters said, the prohibition on rifles and pistols is supposedly to punish the chinese arms companies involved in weapons smuggling and unethical arms deals.

Owen
April 5, 2010, 01:36 PM
zhyla, we do export guns, all over the world.

RP88
April 5, 2010, 03:12 PM
Pffff, so Norinco had some employees caught running guns in the US. They went to trial, nuff said. Didn't S&W VP's have some run in with the law last year?

yes, but a few things to point out are:

-they probably weren't gun-running to gangs or terrorists; they were probably trying to circumvent the law on an otherwise legal deal in order to save money and time. As you can see, that did not work out. The ATF doesn't crack down on people selling to druggies, they crack down on everyone and everything. That is how they justify their budget and independence from the treasury iirc
-S&W is generally a law-abiding, good company that is very important to the LE market. They won't be ostracized like Norinco was - especially given their generally good, butt-kissing relationship they had in the past with our legislators and the government itself.
-S&W isn't Norinco or from nay foreign country that we have/had a problem with

aka108
April 5, 2010, 05:46 PM
I owned 4 SKS's at one time. 3 Russian and 1 Norinco. Sold the Russians and kept the Norinco. Sold off all my Mosins but the best one was built in China (with the exception of the Finn rebuilt 39's). Some of their 22's will shoot right up with some of Europe's best.

4v50 Gary
April 5, 2010, 09:39 PM
One of my favorite 22 is their Mauser 98k look-alike. Smooth action, good shooting fun little gun. Best shooting 22 is still American though - US Government Springfield M-2 that is built on a 03 action.

BigBore
April 6, 2010, 02:28 AM
Last Norinco I purchased was a M14 clone..It sucked..Their metal is too soft in my opinion..

otomik
April 7, 2010, 04:03 AM
that facts aren't good for norinco.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco
In 1994, some employees of Norinco came under federal investigation from both the FBI as well as the ATF after a successful sting dubbed "Operation Dragon Fire." In May 1996, in what was called "the largest seizure of fully operational automatic weapons in U.S. history,"[6] 14 individuals and an Atlanta, Georgia company were indicted for the unlicensed importation and sale of 2,000 Type 56's into the United States. U.S. Customs agents posing as arms traffickers convinced a group of Chinese arms dealers, including three Norinco representatives, that they were in the market to buy guns for drug rings and street gangs.[7] "The defendants offered the government undercover agents more sophisticated weapons, including hand-held rocket launchers, mortars, anti-aircraft missiles, silenced machine guns and even tanks," said Wayne Yama****a of the U.S. Customs Service.[8] The Customs Service discovered during the investigation that these weapons were bound for Oakland, California street gangs.[9] According to an affidavit signed by two of the undercover agents involved in the investigation, representatives from Norinco offered to sell urban gangs shoulder-held missile launchers capable of downing a large commercial airliner.
In August 2003, the Bush Administration imposed sanctions on Norinco for allegedly selling missile-related goods to Iran.[9] While not formally joining the multinational effort to restrict the proliferation of missiles, China did commit in 2000, not to assist in any way the development by other countries of MTCR-class missile technology. Neither the Chinese government nor Norinco has denied doing business with Iranian companies, although they did deny that it was for missile related purposes at the Shahid Hemmat Industrial Group, Iran's key manufacturer of ballistic and non ballistic missiles.[10] Norinco has called the sanctions "groundless and unjustified" and "entirely unreasonable."[11]
These sanctions led to a prohibition on imports into the US of the remaining types of firearms and ammunition not covered by the 1993 ban.

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