NOW WHAT ? universal carbine


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beefyz
April 5, 2010, 10:20 AM
Few months ago a "friend" sold me a universal carbine,high numbered, in great shape. nothing was said about it and i had no reason to suspect anything. intended use was home defense. the sweetness and quick handling of this thing got me to start using it regularly at the range where ,even with these old eyes, i was consistently getting 1" groups at 25-50 yrds and there has been absolutely no failure to feed/fire at all. i've since become aware that about 8 of 10 of every one of you call it a pos where the other 2 have had no problems yet, but are aware of its safety issues; prone to OOB firing. gun appears rarely used, bolt/lug turn/lock easily.feeds reliably/smoothly.i was about to try and strip it today to see if it has the 2 problems that made it a safety issue;an improperly cut receiver that would allow the firing pin to move forward before the bolt has turned & locked AND a bolt all banged up because it was not hardened to Ordnance specs. I do note that i may possibly have a redesigned bolt which placed the firing pin completely inside the bolt.
I've noted from many of you that gi replacement parts will probably not fit my issue and if thats the case, replacement parts will be limited, if available at all. short of taking it to a gun show and passing it off to to someone else, which i would NEVER do now knowing what i know now, (and hopefully my "friend" did not do this intentionally) what the frig do i do with it now?
CAN it be made safe or retrofitted to correct this possible occurrence? the safety article that addressed this issue did point out in consolation, if any, that even wins or other gi ordance carbines after 2 wars and being well used could also fire OOB , but the poor universal seemed to be designed near its end to do so. paid 300 somalians for it and even if there is a fix, would hate to see the fix far outstrip the value of the gun and its reputation. i would really like to keep and use it; do i have any options here?

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Tirod
April 5, 2010, 10:25 AM
First, find out if the problem exists.

After that, you'll need a good gunsmith and a estimate of what it will cost to fix. Then a decision can be made. Right now, it's all conjecture and churning.

It may mean selling it and trying to buy a CMP carbine. At least you'll get mil issue and parts can be available.

SaxonPig
April 5, 2010, 12:06 PM
Not my experience at all. I had one for about 8 years that was well used when I got it and never missed a beat for me. Known a couple others owned by friends and they all worked fine, too. All this worry about the Universals is way overblown. No, the later ones are not GI and parts don't swap. But if the gun is working fine why are you playing Chicken Little?

beefyz
April 5, 2010, 12:16 PM
well.....so far , so good. i did intend to get i checked out. CAN it be fixed if the condition exists; has anybody gone this route? i don't think its being "chicken-little" with it. never had a OOB and don't want one, thats all. am i right in at least assuming there "was" a concern with these carbines.
"selling it".... i wouldn't pull that (Expletive deleted -- <Sam>)on anyone else. i'd scrap it first.
z

garyhan
April 5, 2010, 02:05 PM
I owned one of the first Universal M1 Carbines made. Iit was finely finished, the most accurate carbine I have owned, and never malfunctioned in 20 years. I briefly had one of the late universal M1's. It was crudely finished, and unsafe to fire (blew primers). Judgeing from what I read, the latter was closer to the norm. The CMP is definitely the best investment in a carbine.

gary

greyling22
April 5, 2010, 02:36 PM
I had a used pontiac bonniville that consumer reports said DO NOT BUY, RELIABILITY NIGHTMARE. that worked great for me for many years. and CR actually had empirical data or at least a large sample size to base opinions on. all that to say, just because many or even most of something is problematic does not mean they all are. if yours works well for you, who cares what other guns have done for other people. keep it clean and it will probably be fine. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :)

Jubjub
April 5, 2010, 05:18 PM
Wolff sells a set of replacement recoil springs for the late model Universal. Both of mine have them, and they are noticeably stronger than the factory springs. The bolt cycles very vigorously, and I wouldn't think there would be a worry about it not locking fully, barring an action full of mud or the like.

thunder173
April 5, 2010, 08:24 PM
Had a stock Universal M-1 for nearly 30 years, ...put several thousands of rounds thru it,..all with surplus mags,...and cheap ammo. It was a nice handling good shooting rat whacker with 110 FMJ and soft nose. Hollow points were a no-go,...period. My ex wife inherited it in the divorce,....along with a .32 Win Special Model 94 Trapper....and promptly sold both just to spite me to a relative. I find that twerp,..I'll give him more than he paid for them just to get them back. Try yours. if it works for ya,..keep it,..if not,...do whatever with it. I've spent 300 bucks on worse things.

LibShooter
April 5, 2010, 10:57 PM
I've had my Universal for years. My father had it for more year before giving it to me. The two of us put many hundreds of rounds through it without an out of battery discharge. Can I guarantee it won't happen tomorrow? No, but it's never given me a reason to worry.

It does very rarely fail to feed. It hates 30 round magazines. I deal with those issues.

The fact that no GI or Marine ever carried this rifle into battle is a good thing to me. I can treat my Universal as a favorite tool, not a national treasure.

SaxonPig
April 6, 2010, 12:10 AM
I have never heard about pre-ignition with the Universal. From where are you hearing this? Smells like urban myth, to me.

TonyRumore
April 6, 2010, 09:33 AM
I converted this Universal to .502 Thunder Sabre several years ago, and it's still running strong.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/TonyRumore/Rifles/50carbine1.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/TonyRumore/Rifles/50carbine2.jpg

beefyz
April 6, 2010, 01:55 PM
I have never heard about pre-ignition with the Universal. From where are you hearing this? Smells like urban myth, to me.

FROM RIGHT HERE! just do a search "universal carbine" and about a dozen + pages are possible but you don't have to go further that page 1 to read all the hoopla. only asking about what i read.
and from a post above, and commented on in other posts, another question.
why do some carbines have trouble with a 3o rd mag and what is the trouble ? jams, failure to feed ? i assume you just have to cycle op rod and clear last round ?

TonyRumore
April 6, 2010, 02:01 PM
Usually the problem is that they feed the rounds too low and jam the bullet into the bottom of the feed ramp.

If you install an M2 mag catch, it has a tit on it that holds the bottom of the magazine towards the muzzle, so the feed angle is higher in the front.

Tony

SaxonPig
April 6, 2010, 02:39 PM
Dude, I searched "Universal Carbine" and perused a number of the threads that popped up and I never saw any mention of slam fires or pre-ignitions in any of the posts.

I still have no idea where you're getting this and I have never heard of it before you brought it up.

Do us all a favor and just sell the gun, OK? You are obviously way too worried about it to relax and enjoy it.

-OUT-

61chalk
April 6, 2010, 05:02 PM
The OP was talking about OOB,,,thats Out Of Battery, or as what some would
call pre-ignition or slam fire...but the OP asked about OOB...An he was CORRECT
with his concerns...just because you failed to find it SaxonPig, doesn't mean the
OP made it up...to bad your OUT because you would be able to find it on a Search
of "Universal 30 Carbine" Post # 3, by jdub42 on March 19, 2009.....so the OP did
have a concern because of what he read here at THR.... I have no knowledge as to
how true OOB for the Universal is, but the OP was Correct.

beefyz
April 6, 2010, 06:48 PM
thanks 61 for verifying my CONCERNS; i didn't make this up and after SO many posts in this forum (search UNIVERSAL CARBINE) i'm very surprised that those who are familiar with this didn't chime in. maybe its the way i typed the question ? i was specifically looking for a second opinion as to whether or not it was worthwhile, upon finding the conditions listed under "SAFETY ISSUES" on the universal page, to have the work done and did anyone else go that option?
and saxon pig(?) , do US a favor and go back to sleep for your discourteousness for not being able to give a civil answer
please, to anyone else, DO NOT reply to this post/subject any further. the hell with it, i'll figure it out myself. thanks.

CZguy
April 6, 2010, 08:27 PM
please, to anyone else, DO NOT reply to this post/subject any further. the hell with it, i'll figure it out myself. thanks.

Oh sure............just when I was going to post a clear concise answer and now you don't want it. :D

LibShooter
April 6, 2010, 08:43 PM
I think Universal Carbines are like old Volkswagens. If you get a good one it works great and shoots sweet. Get a lemon and it will give you nothing but trouble until you unload it. (Metaphorically and literally :))

From what I've read you'll know if you've got a lemon after your first couple of boxes of ammo. Apparently, I got lucky.

BP44
April 6, 2010, 09:22 PM
Those things are JUNK,DANGEROUS,INACCURATE, POS's you should sell it to me for the low low price of shipping and i will dispose of it properly:evil:

I have heard of Very Second/fifth hand accounts of out of battery firing but they all came from a friends friend brother second removed. I dont think it a issue at all and if you do have any concerns just ask a COMPETENT gunsmith and have it checked out.

beefyz
April 6, 2010, 10:45 PM
cz...no offense to you meant, nothing personal, sorry...pm sent.
to others, thanks, was going to get it professionally checked anyway. was just checking in with the "team" here.

Maverick223
April 6, 2010, 11:01 PM
Have a friend that had a late model. Had a few jams, and wasn't especially accurate, but that wasn't to be expected. The fire out of battery was a problem, rifle was destroyed, luckily no one was seriously injured. I would sell it and look for a suitable GI replacement, or an early model (Gen I) Universal with GI parts.

:)

SaxonPig
April 6, 2010, 11:50 PM
I went and looked AGAIN and did find one mention by one guy about him HEARING of some other guy who once had a Universal fire out of battery.

Wow, with such an overwhelming preponderance of evidence like that, no wonder we should be seriously concerned. :rolleyes:

Snakum
April 7, 2010, 01:31 PM
LMAO. Gotta love the Errornet. :D

Maverick223
April 7, 2010, 03:01 PM
In addition to my first hand account (but not my rifle, or myself firing), here is some supplementary evidence of something that apparently never occurs, and a brief explanation of why it only occurs with the late model Universal copies:

OOB Failure (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/1032289-post7.html)

Universal Safety Issues (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/outofbattery.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/safety.html&usg=__PmDVuda8d-gMJPgZauwqzcPzHY4=&h=314&w=380&sz=26&hl=en&start=25&sig2=qfHpp7IflIUEYS2Ezigp1A&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=4seiguW_2fV9DM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Duniversal%2Bcarbine%2Bfire%2Bout%2Bof%2Bbattery%26start%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbo%3D1%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENUS279%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=os68S-alAo-S8gTWo7CtCA)

:)

61chalk
April 7, 2010, 04:35 PM
Good info. Maverick223, learned a little bit more about OOB on Carbines like
the Universal an what to look for...had a Universal years ago, very inacurate
so didn't keep it long even though I bought brand new from JC Penny for 142.00
Probably never a bad idea to have a gunsmith check a rifle if in doubt...

beefyz...thank you for your service on 9/11

JR47
April 7, 2010, 04:53 PM
why do some carbines have trouble with a 3o rd mag and what is the trouble ? jams, failure to feed ? i assume you just have to cycle op rod and clear last round ?

As was mentioned, the M2 mag catch was DESIGNED to work with the 30 round magazine. The others weren't.

I have a Universal bought in 1971-72. It has given me exactly ZERO problems over the years. No premature wear, no OOB firing, no problems with parts.

Another friend has one, as well, with the only problems being related to worn out recoil springs. I replaced them, and the gun was running 100%.

I have had a problem with OOB discharges in a carbine, though. It was an Inland M2 overstamp. Using Geco ammo, we had 2 OOB events out of 500 rounds. One was me, one was with a police officer friend. The owner eventually replaced the barrel, and the problem went away.

Has anyone here actually had the problem with their Universal? The fact that you can find it on the Internet gives little in the way of perspective.

Maverick223
April 7, 2010, 05:06 PM
Glad to be of some help, 61chalk.

Has anyone here actually had the problem with their Universal? The fact that you can find it on the Internet gives little in the way of perspective.Well this is the internet too, and as I have stated, I have a buddy that had an OOB in his Universal. I saw it. I don't know how to be more convincing other than to recommend that you buy, borrow, or rent one and try to replicate the result. http://forums.nitroexpress.com/images/graemlins/smilies/general/dunno.gif

SaxonPig
April 7, 2010, 07:05 PM
I didn't say it never happened. I said it didn't sound like huge problem with Universals and I still don't think it is. That web site linked said it can happen with any semi-auto rifle (true) not just Universals and I still don't think it's such a huge concern that I would lose sleep over the issue (or worry and fret and ask if I should sell a gun I hadn't even fired yet because I am so terrified).

SaxonPig
April 8, 2010, 09:03 AM
Sensitive, aren't we?

I don't really feel like posting my resume.

Sam1911
April 8, 2010, 11:15 AM
DO NOT reply to this post/subject any further. the hell with it, i'll figure it out myself. thanks.

An utter shame we couldn't have agreed to leave it there.

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